Will the Real Varys Please Stand Up?

[John Suburbs]

Three times I think we get a glimpse of the real Varys, and he's not the flaming eunuch he pretends to be.

First, with Ned after the death of Ser Hugh of the Vale:

Quote

QoT, Eddard VII

"I will not keep you long, my lord. There are things you must know. You are the King's Hand, and the king is fool." The eunuch's cloying tones were gone; now his voice was thin and sharp as a whip.

... and later ...

"The Red Keep shelters two sorts of people, Lord Eddard," Varys said. "Those who are loyal to the realm, and those who are loyal only to themselves. Until this morning, I could not say which you might be ... so I waited to see ... and now I know, for a certainty." He smiled a plump tight little smile, and for a moment his private face and public mask were one.

Then with Tyrion, riding back from Shae's manse:

Quote

"My lord, you once asked me how it was that I was cut."

"I recall," said Tyrion. "You did not want to talk of it."

"Nor do I, but..." This pause was longer than the one before, and when Varys spoke again his voice was different somehow.

And finally, after shooting Ser Kevan with the crossbow:

Quote

"Aegon? Dead. He's dead.

"No," The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here..."

So maybe these are just cases of Varys' snapping into his serious voice. But maybe Varys the Eunuch, with all his giggles and affectations and squirming at the sight of his own blood, is just another character like Rugen, the begging brother or the matronly woman. Maybe in reality he's as masculine as any other man. Maybe he's not even a eunuch.

 

 

[velo-knight]

Has anyone ever wondered if Varys might be Serra?

[Lord Varys]

Varys using the deeper voice seems to be hint that he is now telling the truth and not playing a role.

But this has essentially be known/suspected since ACoK. As long as George doesn't give us a glimpse into Varys' head he has to come up with a way to convince the reader that the eunuch is (most likely) telling the truth right now. That is the problem if you have a master manipulator.

The idea that Varys' true persona was the affectionate eunuch never made any sense. At least not since we learned about his origins.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

Varys using the deeper voice seems to be hint that he is now telling the truth and not playing a role.

 

He needed to use this voice more times, a lot of theories regarding the unreliability of varys words would disappear.

[Renly's Banana]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

So maybe these are just cases of Varys' snapping into his serious voice. But maybe Varys the Eunuch, with all his giggles and affectations and squirming at the sight of his own blood, is just another character like Rugen, the begging brother or the matronly woman. Maybe in reality he's as masculine as any other man. Maybe he's not even a eunuch.

Varys is almost certainly a eunuch. The fact he's always seen as completely hairless is a strong indicator of this; because he was castrated before puberty, he doesn't produce as much testosterone. No amount of shaving can hide that with a regular man. His persona of "Varys" is most likely an act, though. That much has always been obvious. 

1 hour ago, velo-knight said:

Has anyone ever wondered if Varys might be Serra?

Then who's hands are hanging in Illyrio's bedroom?!?!?! 

Nah but we've actually seen these two characters interacting in private, and Illyrio just calls him an "old friend" and nothing more. 

[velo-knight]

Disclaimer: the Serra idea is definitely a very, very, very cracked pot. It's fun, though, because it introduces a bunch of new problems while massively solving some major ones regarding Varys and Illyrio's motivations. Someone on the forum once observed that V+I are essentially doing a grand version of their old con: "stealing" a kingdom (through the Usurper) and then "selling it back" (through the restoring Aegon, along with potentially a new crop of lords such as Tygrett Lannister, JonCon, and, they hoped, Ned Stark). The issue is how they will actually collect this payment: Illyrio gets a likely son on the Iron Throne, but what's in it for Varys? 

Just now, Renly's Banana said:

Varys is almost certainly a eunuch. The fact he's always seen as completely hairless is a strong indicator of this; because he was castrated before puberty, he doesn't produce as much testosterone. No amount of shaving can hide that with a regular man. His persona of "Varys" is most likely an act, though. That much has always been obvious. 

Or a woman.

Just now, Renly's Banana said:

Then who's hands are hanging in Illyrio's bedroom?!?!?! 

Well, could be anyone. A bit of evidence against this theory, though. Illyrio could genuinely mourn the person Serra had to turn herself into to become this character of Varys...and has an extremely strange way of showing it.

Just now, Renly's Banana said:

Nah but we've actually seen these two characters interacting in private, and Illyrio just calls him an "old friend" and nothing more. 

Yeah, but Varys also pretends Aegon is the real deal when monologing to a dying Kevan. Maybe they are just extremely focused on staying in character.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Yes "The Spider" as a persona is a definite possibility. Which begs the question is Varys just the name for that persona or is Varys really his name? Does he have another name? After all he goes by Rugen when he's slumming in the dungeons.

[Vaedys Targaryen]

I've actually for a long time had the idea that Varys is actually not a eunuch; he obviously pretends to speak the way he does and we know that he can make his voice a lot deeper than he lets most people know.

When a boy gets his testicles cut off before puberty, a bunch of things happen but three are very noticable: He cannot grow a beard, or will have a very difficult time trying to, his voice will not "crack" and his face and physique stay rather boylike.

 

We know that Varys shaves all his hair off and wears powder on his face. Many fans speculate that he cuts his hair to hide its colour, because of the Blackfyre/Brightflame/Brightfyre/whatever theory. Now whether or not that is true is not really relevant right here, but he powders his face and he is rather plump.

When a man is plump or obese, it can be rather difficult to see his mature facial structures, like his jawline and Adam's Apple. Could Varys intentionally make himself plump to hide his manly features. And could he be powdering himself to only enhance a boyish look?

To top it all of, he wears very loose clothes, which also help conceal his actual body shape or other things.

 

Varys' voice is another thing too: He usually speaks in a rather high pitch, which is to be expected because he was cut before he reached puberty and thusly his voice didn't crack, but we know that he can lower his voice, though we don't exactly know how much he lowers it. This is significant, because while a man who is not a eunuch can pitch his, most eunuchs physically can't deepen their voice.

Now Varys is a skilled mummer, so we know that he knows how to change his voice into different things and he knows how to effectively disguise himself, going so far as to even disguise his smell, so it shouldn't be too difficult for him to pretend to be a eunuch.

 

As a matter of fact, when Jon is at the Wall in aGoT, he notes that one of his brothers is making his voice sound like a eunuch's, which the other brothers find funny:

Edit: (Shamelessly stolen from Lord Wraith)

Quote

The evening meal was almost done by the time he and Ghost reached the common hall. A group of the black brothers were dicing over mulled wine near the fire. His friends were at the bench nearest the west wall, laughing. Pyp was in the middle of a story. The mummer's boy with the big ears was a born liar with a hundred different voices, and he did not tell his tales so much as live them, playing all the parts as needed, a king one moment and a swineherd the next. When he turned into an alehouse girl or a virgin princess, he used a high falsetto voice that reduced them all to tears of helpless laughter, and his eunuchs were always eerily accurate caricatures of Ser Alliser. Jon took as much pleasure from Pyp's antics as anyone … yet that night he turned away and went instead to the end of the bench, where Samwell Tarly sat alone, as far from the others as he could get.

 

All of these things make me believe that Varys is actually not actually a eunuch, but I admit that these are just my speculations and I'll be the first one to admit to being wrong if my speculation is proven to be wrong.

[Lord Wraith]

16 minutes ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I've actually for a long time had the idea that Varys is actually not a eunuch; he obviously pretends to speak the way he does and we know that he can make his voice a lot deeper than he lets most people know.

When a boy gets his testicles cut off before puberty, a bunch of things happen but three are very noticable: He cannot grow a beard, or will have a very difficult time trying to, his voice will not "crack" and his face and physique stay rather boylike.

 

We know that Varys shaves all his hair off and wears powder on his face. Many fans speculate that he cuts his hair to hide its colour, because of the Blackfyre/Brightflame/Brightfyre/whatever theory. Now whether or not that is true is not really relevant right here, but he powders his face and he is rather plump.

When a man is plump or obese, it can be rather difficult to see his mature facial structures, like his jawline and Adam's Apple. Could Varys intentionally make himself plump to hide his manly features. And could he be powdering himself to only enhance a boyish look?

To top it all of, he wears very loose clothes, which also help conceal his actual body shape or other things.

 

Varys' voice is another thing too: He usually speaks in a rather high pitch, which is to be expected because he was cut before he reached puberty and thusly his voice didn't crack, but we know that he can lower his voice, though we don't exactly know how much he lowers it. This is significant, because while a man who is not a eunuch can pitch his, most eunuchs physically can't deepen their voice.

Now Varys is a skilled mummer, so we know that he knows how to change his voice into different things and he knows how to effectively disguise himself, going so far as to even disguise his smell, so it shouldn't be too difficult for him to pretend to be a eunuch.

 

As a matter of fact, when Jon is at the Wall in aGoT, he notes that one of his brothers is making his voice sound like a eunuch's, which the other brothers find funny:

(I am currently in a place where I don't have aGoT to quote it, but I'll find it and post it once I get home)

 

All of these things make me believe that Varys is actually not actually a eunuch, but I admit that these are just my speculations and I'll be the first one to admit to being wrong if my speculation is proven to be wrong.

Quote

The evening meal was almost done by the time he and Ghost reached the common hall. A group of the black brothers were dicing over mulled wine near the fire. His friends were at the bench nearest the west wall, laughing. Pyp was in the middle of a story. The mummer's boy with the big ears was a born liar with a hundred different voices, and he did not tell his tales so much as live them, playing all the parts as needed, a king one moment and a swineherd the next. When he turned into an alehouse girl or a virgin princess, he used a high falsetto voice that reduced them all to tears of helpless laughter, and his eunuchs were always eerily accurate caricatures of Ser Alliser. Jon took as much pleasure from Pyp's antics as anyone … yet that night he turned away and went instead to the end of the bench, where Samwell Tarly sat alone, as far from the others as he could get.

Is this the quote?

[Vaedys Targaryen]

4 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Is this the quote?

Yes, this is it!

[rotting sea cow]

8 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Three times I think we get a glimpse of the real Varys, and he's not the flaming eunuch he pretends to be.

First, with Ned after the death of Ser Hugh of the Vale:

Then with Tyrion, riding back from Shae's manse:

And finally, after shooting Ser Kevan with the crossbow:

So maybe these are just cases of Varys' snapping into his serious voice. But maybe Varys the Eunuch, with all his giggles and affectations and squirming at the sight of his own blood, is just another character like Rugen, the begging brother or the matronly woman.

Indeed, these are three instances we see the real Varys. We will certainly see more of him now that he has "free hands", and we won't like it.

 

8 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Maybe in reality he's as masculine as any other man. Maybe he's not even a eunuch.

I don't think so, otherwise your own post doesn't make sense Varys is telling the truth to Tyrion about his castration, so the change in the voice.

Also, there are hints that Varys doesn't understand sexual desires.

[rotting sea cow]

8 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

He needed to use this voice more times, a lot of theories regarding the unreliability of varys words would disappear.

Also contrary to Littlefinger, Varys doesn't straight up lie (or not often), just doesn't tell the full truth.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

I don't think Varys tells Tyrion the full truth about his castration, either. At the very least, he's leaving out some details.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

42 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

 

I don't think Varys tells Tyrion the full truth about his castration, either. At the very least, he's leaving out some details.

 

That are just some instances where he tells the full truth about anything to anyone. Even with Aerys he didn't say the full truth. Most people think he even lied to Kevan when talking about Aegon being alive (Blackfyre theory).

[rotting sea cow]

27 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

That are just some instances where he tells the full truth about anything to anyone. Even with Aerys he didn't say the full truth. Most people think he even lied to Kevan when talking about Aegon being alive (Blackfyre theory).

One needs to be careful with that scene. Varys is not talking to Kevan, why should he? He is turning and talking to us, so we finally understand who is he and his motivations.

[Lord Varys]

There is no reason why the hell Varys should pretend to be a eunuch. It is humiliating and ugly to be a eunuch, especially in Westeros. Varys is in a bad position at court already, being a commoner and a foreigner.

Varys is talking to Kevan. And he is not lying. He is not saying that Aegon, son of Rhaegar is here. He just says that Aegon is here. And the boy definitely is named Aegon, regardless who his father is. But it could very well be that Aegon is actually Rhaegar's son.

[rotting sea cow]

8 hours ago, velo-knight said:

The issue is how they will actually collect this payment: Illyrio gets a likely son on the Iron Throne, but what's in it for Varys? 

If the Blackfyre theory proves correct, Illyrio gets his son in the iron throne. It may be they are unconnected with Blackfyres or Bittersteels. Maybe only Varys is, etc. Only GRRM knows for certain. It is not even that important.  But whatever motivations Varys had a the beginnings had shifted from any blood relations or economic ambitions to a more ideological purpose. He believes that Westeros is moral and politically broken and a "perfect prince" is needed. Together with Illyrio they believe they have crafted that prince.  They are doomed to disappointment, or so I hope. Because the TPTWP cannot be designed in a controlled environment that doesn't allow room for personal development.

 

[velo-knight]

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

But whatever motivations Varys had a the beginnings had shifted from any blood relations or economic ambitions to a more ideological purpose. He believes that Westeros is moral and politically broken and a "perfect prince" is needed. Together with Illyrio they believe they have crafted that prince. 

See, this is where the theory dies for me. Varys stated motives are totally at odds with his tactics. Even a hardcore, utilitarian, ends-always-justify-means type has to recognize the inconsistency in wanting to put a perfect prince on the throne "for the children" by systematically mutilating and murdering child spies, instigating war(s) which will cause the deaths of thousands of children and the homelessness of more, and undermining the stability of the very prince he wants to crown. Something has to be worth it for Varys, and I don't think it's just a vague ideology about the pauper prince.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

They are doomed to disappointment, or so I hope. Because the TPTWP cannot be designed in a controlled environment that doesn't allow room for personal development.

Agreed. Also, from an "experiment design" perspective, it's impossible to know if you (Varys and Illyrio) are accidentally putting your thumb on the scales by creating experiences that will be tailored for him to overcome.

[Dorian Martell's son]

16 hours ago, velo-knight said:

Has anyone ever wondered if Varys might be Serra?

Aerys was the kind of crazy that when Varys showed up, I am sure the king would have demanded a peek at where his junk would have been. if he found a vagina, Aerys would have found him to be a liar 

[velo-knight]

1 minute ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Aerys was the kind of crazy that when Varys showed up, I am sure the king would have demanded a peek at where his junk would have been. if he found a vagina, Aerys would have found him to be a liar 

"The rot in his reign began with Varys" - Barristan Selmy.