Jump to content

'The Killing Word' -- A Re-examination of the Prologue


ravenous reader

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Interesting.

So, with Sansa being another Blue Falcon, how do you think her story arc will develop?

That depends on how she takes the realization. If the realization hits her while she is Alyane Stone, I think she will dissociate herself and truly convince herself she is Alyane because I would imagine that she would take that as confirmation that she is in some way Littlefinger's daughter. 

Literary-wise, It would mirror her friend Jeyne Poole being told by Theon to just be Arya and it would be Theon completely becoming Reek. And remember that she blamed Arya for Lady dying so there is that aspect of assigning blame to others.

That would be one scenario.

Another way she could take the understanding is to become like her mother after becoming Lady Stoneheart and Arya constant hunger for revenge. 

There are more ways she could take the knowledge but one thing for sure is that the understanding and its treatment is dependent upon Sansa's frame of mind at that moment.

For me my favorite secenerio is the first one.

But to go back to @ravenous reader OP, there is this meta theme of children uttering words that can kill. Joffrey is repeatedly characterized by Tyrion as a thirteen year old boy. Cersei telling Tyrion's nurse that she could have her killed if she didn't allow her and the Martells into Tyrion's room. Sansa's lack of words at Darry and her childish fancy to become queen which led her to tell Cersei about Ned trying to send back his daughters. 

And then this theme of children playing diplomats like Bran or the networking aspect of fostering that worked well to Ned, Jon Arryn and Robert's advantage. 

All of this goes to show how the Darry scene is so pivotal because the words of children essentially turned negative feelings into a blood feud. And the purpose for that is rooted in the childhood saying, "Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." But George clearly illustrates that yes words can hurt. He is putting up a dark mirror to our current debates on bullying and political correctness. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/25/2017 at 10:00 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

That depends on how she takes the realization. If the realization hits her while she is Alyane Stone, I think she will dissociate herself and truly convince herself she is Alyane because I would imagine that she would take that as confirmation that she is in some way Littlefinger's daughter. 

Literary-wise, It would mirror her friend Jeyne Poole being told by Theon to just be Arya and it would be Theon completely becoming Reek. And remember that she blamed Arya for Lady dying so there is that aspect of assigning blame to others.

In that scene where she is hauled in front of Cersei and the rest of the unctuously false small council, for Cersei to toy with her following her father's arrest, Sansa is very eager to serve up her sister as the one with 'traitor's blood'.  In effect, she denies her own 'wolf's blood', a denouncement which directly led to her losing her wolf and family.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Sansa IV

Queen Cersei looked to the others. "My lords of the council, what do you say to her plea?"

 

"The poor child," murmured Varys. "A love so true and innocent, Your Grace, it would be cruel to deny it . . . and yet, what can we do? Her father stands condemned." His soft hands washed each other in a gesture of helpless distress.

Lady Macbeth allusion -- implying Varys has blood on his hands.

Quote

"A child born of traitor's seed will find that betrayal comes naturally to her," said Grand Maester Pycelle. "She is a sweet thing now, but in ten years, who can say what treasons she may hatch?"

"No," Sansa said, horrified. "I'm not, I'd never . . . I wouldn't betray Joffrey, I love him, I swear it, I do."

"Oh, so poignant," said Varys. "And yet, it is truly said that blood runs truer than oaths."

"She reminds me of the mother, not the father," Lord Petyr Baelish said quietly. "Look at her. The hair, the eyes. She is the very image of Cat at the same age."

The queen looked at her, troubled, and yet Sansa could see kindness in her clear green eyes. "Child," she said, "if I could truly believe that you were not like your father, why nothing should please me more than to see you wed to my Joffrey. I know he loves you with all his heart." She sighed. "And yet, I fear that Lord Varys and the Grand Maester have the right of it. The blood will tell. I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son."

"I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. I'm good, ask Septa Mordane, she'll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey's loyal and loving wife."

One might draw a parallel between Sansa and Will in the Prologue who similarly serves up his brother to the Others, preferring to hold his silence in order to save his own skin.  It's important to note that the 'silence' held by both Sansa and Will was not really a silence -- it was a lie, a slander, like a loaded dagger between the teeth aimed at their own siblings.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Eddard III

"Enough!" the king roared, rising from his seat, his voice thick with irritation. Silence fell. He glowered at Arya through his thick beard. "Now, child, you will tell me what happened. Tell it all, and tell it true. It is a great crime to lie to a king." Then he looked over at his son. "When she is done, you will have your turn. Until then, hold your tongue.

As Arya began her story, Ned heard the door open behind him. He glanced back and saw Vayon Poole enter with Sansa. They stood quietly at the back of the hall as Arya spoke. When she got to the part where she threw Joffrey's sword into the middle of the Trident, Renly Baratheon began to laugh. The king bristled. "Ser Barristan, escort my brother from the hall before he chokes."

Here, Sansa like Will is watching proceedings at a distance.  She's accompanied by Vayon Poole whose sigil is a blue circle on white which resembles not only a blue pool but a blue moon -- i.e. a 'traitor's moon'!  As you were saying above about Jeyne as FArya, telling a lie is like being a turncloak, which Sansa also displays here in deed and accompanying symbolism.  Fittingly, Sansa also wears the colors of the blue falcon at this moment -- blue, white and silver.

Sending someone plummeting through the moon door is akin to drowning them in a blue pool, so what we're talking about here is 'the bloody blue' into which Sansa is about to throw her family:

Quote

Lord Renly stifled his laughter. "My brother is too kind. I can find the door myself." He bowed to Joffrey. "Perchance later you'll tell me how a nine-year-old girl the size of a wet rat managed to disarm you with a broom handle and throw your sword in the river." As the door swung shut behind him, Ned heard him say, "Lion's Tooth," and guffaw once more.

Prince Joffrey was pale as he began his very different version of events. When his son was done talking, the king rose heavily from his seat, looking like a man who wanted to be anywhere but here. "What in all the seven hells am I supposed to make of this? He says one thing, she says another."

"They were not the only ones present," Ned said. "Sansa, come here." Ned had heard her version of the story the night Arya had vanished. He knew the truth. "Tell us what happened."

His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white, a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shone. She blinked at her sister, then at the young prince. "I don't know," she said tearfully, looking as though she wanted to bolt. "I don't remember. Everything happened so fast, I didn't see . . . "

The word 'bolt' is a pun on lightning 'bolt', which is exactly what Sansa represents in this scenario.  A 'killing word' lightning bolt, analogous to the one which felled Ser Waymar.  That means that Sansa sicks Joffrey the cat's paw onto her sister (and her father), the same way Will summons the Others as his proxy assassins onto his brother.  Note that Joffrey is described as 'pale' like an Other!  By the end, this pallor will be transferred onto Sansa...

Hey PK -- notice her freshly groomed ('washed'..?) hair like a river of blood, which might tie in to your ideas above about the 'white washing' of the greenseers attempting to cover up their treacherous ways.  The red of Jaqen's, Sansa's and indeed Bran's hair can not be washed out, just like the blood in the mortar of Harrenhal cannot be washed clean, no matter how long Arya or another 'washer woman' scrubs those steps!

Also, the cascading, brushed-out red hair like Ygritte's symbolises the changing of the seasons, the comet, or 'the sword which slays the seasons' -- with the implication that a 'killing word' issued by a 'blue falcon' was responsible for ushering in the Long Night.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jon II

The wildlings seemed to think Ygritte a great beauty because of her hair; red hair was rare among the free folk, and those who had it were said to be kissed by fire, which was supposed to be lucky. Lucky it might be, and red it certainly was, but Ygritte's hair was such a tangle that Jon was tempted to ask her if she only brushed it at the changing of the seasons.

What I've been suggesting all along is that instead of embarking on some ambitious, grand cosmic adventure, the perpetrator of the Long Night was like Sansa merely engaging in a bit of petty sibling rivalry, which ended up having far greater and more damaging consequences than ever imagined.  

Sansa is also supposed to be a partial reworking of the 'virgin queen'  Queen Elizabeth I, who like Sansa had the famous red hair and was also a bit of a 'blue falcon'.  For example, she beheaded her own half-sister Mary.  There are further similarities in their sad and troubled childhoods to which GRRM may be alluding:

Quote

After the disgrace and execution of her mother, Elizabeth's life was never to be quite the same again. [Sansa's father was beheaded] She was probably far too young to be greatly effected by her mother's sudden extinction, but her lifestyle changed considerably. The marriage of her father to her mother was annulled, and she was made a royal bastard. Later, she was stripped of her title of Princess, as her sister had previously been, to become simply, the Lady Elizabeth. Elizabeth was a very bright child, and this change in her name did not escape her. [Sansa Stark became the bastard Alayne Stone]

<snip>

Jane Seymour
Jane Seymour died a few days after giving birth to Henry's longed for son, Prince Edward. The King was devastated at her loss and gave her a royal burial at the Chapel of St. George in Windsor Castle. Like Elizabeth, Edward too had to grow up motherless, and from an early age, the two children formed a close bond.  [like Sansa and Robert Arryn] Although Elizabeth was getting along well with her half sister, Mary, the sisters were never close. [like Sansa and Arya, as different as 'sun and moon'] They were of different religions, Elizabeth a Protestant, Mary a Catholic; of very different ages, Mary being seventeen years older; of different family connections, and they had very different personalities. Edward and Elizabeth, however, were closer in age, of the same religion, and both shared a passion for learning. They were both given a very impressive education.


Kat Ashley
From an early age they were taught Latin, Greek, Spanish, French, as well as all the other requirements of a classical humanist education; history philosophy, mathematics. When Elizabeth was four years old, Lady Bryan was replaced as governess by a young woman called Katherine Champernowne. Katherine was a sweet, motherly, well educated lady, who came to love her young charge dearly. She became an important figure in Elizabeth's life, to all extent and purposes her mother figure, and Elizabeth affectionately came to call her "Kat"[like Sansa's mother 'Cat']

<snip>


But this happy state of affairs was not destined to continue. It was discovered that Catherine had committed adultery, and just like Elizabeth's mother before her, she was taken to the Tower of London, condemned to death, and executed on Tower Green. This must have been a very painful and confusing episode for Elizabeth, who was still only eight years old. The extent of it's impact upon her cannot be measured, but it is significant that Robert Dudley, her childhood friend and confident when she later became Queen, said many years later that when she was eight years old, Elizabeth told him that she would never marry. In eight short years she had lost her mother and had had three stepmothers, two of whom were now dead. Also, no doubt, she had heard tales of the fate of her sister's mother, Catherine of Aragon, and it is not surprising that these combined events impressed in her a certain fear of what happened to women who married. [neither has Sansa had luck in marriage nor witnessed many savoury marriages]

<snip>

 By this stage, Henry was far from well. He had a great ulcer on his leg that troubled him immensely and his enormous weight hindered his mobility considerably. It was becoming clear to all around him that his days were numbered. He died on 28 January 1547. 

Elizabeth was with her brother, Edward, at the royal Palace of Enfield (London) when they were told of their father's death. She and her brother cried bitterly, holding each other close. Both children knew their lives were about to change considerably, and their tears may well have been from fear for the future, as well as grief for the death of their magnificent, if at times, tyrannical father. Both were now orphans. Elizabeth was thirteen years of age, and Edward was King of England at the age of only nine.

The Troubled Teens

The Queen dowager married indecently soon after the king's death, her old suitor, the Lord Admiral, Thomas Seymour, brother of Edward Seymour, the King's Uncle and Lord Protector of England. [like Lysa and Littlefinger post- Jon Arryn's untimely death] Elizabeth, with her servants, went to live with the Queen and her new husband, and a new era of trouble began for her. [like Sansa moving to the Eyrie with ensuing complications] Thomas Seymour, a dashing man in his late thirties, took an unhealthy interest in his new step-daughter, who had now just turned fourteen. He was charismatic and charming, and it is possible that Elizabeth developed a teenage crush on him. But whatever her adolescent feelings for him may have been, Seymour took advantage of them, and began to visit Elizabeth's bedchamber early in the mornings to romp in the bed with her. Sometimes the Queen herself accompanied him, and they would both tickle her. Another time, they teased Elizabeth in the garden, the Queen holding her while Seymour cut up her mourning gown for her father. 

Thomas Seymour
What exactly happened between Elizabeth and Seymour will always be a mystery as the knowledge we have of her time with him and Katherine comes from the documents produced some time later when an investigation was taking place into Seymour's relations with Elizabeth and the other royal children. Certainly matters appear to have got out of hand, Seymour's interest in Elizabeth being blatantly sexual, and neither Katherine, Kat Ashley, or Elizabeth herself was comfortable with his behaviour. Elizabeth would reputedly rise early so that when he came to her bedchamber in the mornings she would already be up and dressed. Matters came to a head when Elizabeth was reputedly found alone with the Admiral, and Katherine, concerned and perhaps a little jealous of his attention in the young girl, thought it would be better for her to leave the household. Elizabeth accordingly left, although there was no enmity between the two women, and Elizabeth wrote often to the Queen, who was now heavily pregnant. She soon gave birth to a daughter, who was named Mary, but Katherine did not survive the birth. 

Leaving the household was not the end of Elizabeth's troubles with the Admiral. Shortly after his wife's death, Seymour began to seek Elizabeth's hand in marriage. Elizabeth turned him down. Seymour was deeply jealous of the influence his brother had in the country and over the boy king, and he planned a coup to give himself that power. He planned to abduct the king, marry him to Lady Jane Grey, and marry himself to Elizabeth. His plans failed, and he was arrested for treason. [maybe something similar will happen with Littlefinger; one lives in hope...] His plan to marry Elizabeth implicated her in the plot. It was high treason for an heir to the throne to marry without the consent of the Monarch, Privy Council and Parliament, and Elizabeth stood in great danger from those who felt that she was complicent in his marital schemes. Her servants were arrested and sent to the Tower, and she herself was closely guarded. She was also subjected to a rigorous questioning on her relations with the Admiral by Sir Robert Tyrwhit. 

Elizabeth was only fifteen years old, but one careless word from her could have sealed the fate of all those who were dear to her, and possibly have cost her her own life as well (although it is doubtful that Elizabeth's death was the object of the government, their main concern being to condemn the Admiral). In such extremely difficult, and what must have been very frightening, circumstances, and with virtually no assistance, Elizabeth managed to uphold her innocence. The Admiral, however, was found guilty of high treason and condemned to death. The affect of all this on Elizabeth must have been immense. Certainly it took its toll emotionally and physically, and Elizabeth was unwell for some months after. However, as well as affecting her health, it also effected her reputation and this was a great concern to Elizabeth as well. She was always very sensitive about what people thought of her, and she wanted the rumour that she was pregnant by the Admiral suppressed. [the flutter of bats in Sansa's tummy in Littlefinger's presence comes to mind...]

 

 

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Sansa V

And so many others were missing. Where had the rest of them gone? Sansa wondered. Vainly, she searched for friendly faces. Not one of them would meet her eyes. It was as if she had become a ghost, dead before her time.

Grand Maester Pycelle was seated alone at the council table, seemingly asleep, his hands clasped together atop his beard. She saw Lord Varys hurry into the hall, his feet making no sound. A moment later Lord Baelish entered through the tall doors in the rear, smiling. He chatted amiably with Ser Balon and Ser Dontos as he made his way to the front. Butterflies fluttered nervously in Sansa's stomach. I shouldn't be afraid, she told herself. I have nothing to be afraid of, it will all come out well...

 

 

Quote

She wrote to the Protector asking for a proclamation to be made saying these things were untrue. But while this was considered, it was not implemented. During the investigation, Elizabeth had been painfully parted from her governess, and it was sometime before they were reunited. 

In these troubled years, Elizabeth's relationship with her brother suffered. They were no longer as close as they had been, and during and immediately after the Seymour scandal, Elizabeth was forbidden to attend court. She was eventually allowed to return, however. To try and recapture her virginal image, Elizabeth dressed as the perfect Protestant lady. She wore plain black and white gowns, refused to decorate herself with jewellery and other finery, and refused to wear make up. Her sobriety was much commented upon, and even her brother called her "sweet sister temperance".  [likewise, Sansa prides herself on projecting an image of the 'good girl']

John Dudley
Following the disgrace and death of his brother, Thomas, Edward Seymour was replaced as Protector by John Dudley, Earl of Warwick, soon to be the Duke of Northumberland. He was the father of Elizabeth's childhood friend, Robert Dudley, and they may have seen each other a number of times during the Duke's government. Edward had enjoyed a rather healthy childhood, but from 1553 onwards, be began to be very ill with possibly a form of consumption (TB). It became clear to Northumberland that the young boy was not likely to survive into adulthood, and he thus had to make preparations for the succession. [like the sickly cousin Sweet Robin] The heir in English law was Edward's sister, Mary, but she was an ardent Catholic, and her accession would undoubtedly put an end to Northumberland's reforms of the church, and his personal power. 

<snip>

From:  http://www.elizabethi.org/contents/earlyyears/childhood.html

Quote

"You rotten!" Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. "Liar, liar, liar, liar."

Arya plays wighted Ser Waymar here 'flying' at her sister 'like an arrow', after being transformed by the 'lightning' of her sister's treacherous words!  It's cool we have the trajectories of the lightning and arrow going in opposite directions, just like the greenseer and the backlash from the meteors he unleashed.

Quote

"Arya, stop it!" Ned shouted. Jory pulled her off her sister, kicking. Sansa was pale and shaking as Ned lifted her back to her feet. "Are you hurt?" he asked, but she was staring at Arya, and she did not seem to hear.

"The girl is as wild as that filthy animal of hers," Cersei Lannister said. "Robert, I want her punished."

 

Quote

But to go back to @ravenous reader OP, there is this meta theme of children uttering words that can kill. Joffrey is repeatedly characterized by Tyrion as a thirteen year old boy. Cersei telling Tyrion's nurse that she could have her killed if she didn't allow her and the Martells into Tyrion's room. Sansa's lack of words at Darry and her childish fancy to become queen which led her to tell Cersei about Ned trying to send back his daughters. 

And then this theme of children playing diplomats like Bran or the networking aspect of fostering that worked well to Ned, Jon Arryn and Robert's advantage. 

All of this goes to show how the Darry scene is so pivotal because the words of children essentially turned negative feelings into a blood feud. And the purpose for that is rooted in the childhood saying, "Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." But George clearly illustrates that yes words can hurt. He is putting up a dark mirror to our current debates on bullying and political correctness. 

That's well expressed!

In fact, Sansa is the one who unwittingly tips Ned off to the fact that Cersei's children are bastards:  Thus, it's possible that the 'killing word' may be uttered carelessly, if not innocently, 'out of the mouths of babes'...

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Sansa III

"He is!" Sansa insisted. "I don't want someone brave and gentle, I want him. We'll be ever so happy, just like in the songs, you'll see. I'll give him a son with golden hair, and one day he'll be the king of all the realm, the greatest king that ever was, as brave as the wolf and as proud as the lion."

Arya made a face. "Not if Joffrey's his father," she said. "He's a liar and a craven and anyhow he's a stag, not a lion."

 Sansa felt tears in her eyes. "He is not! He's not the least bit like that old drunken king," she screamed at her sister, forgetting herself in her grief.

Father looked at her strangely. "Gods," he swore softly, "out of the mouth of babes …" He shouted for Septa Mordane. To the girls he said, "I am looking for a fast trading galley to take you home. These days, the sea is safer than the kingsroad. You will sail as soon as I can find a proper ship, with Septa Mordane and a complement of guards … and yes, with Syrio Forel, if he agrees to enter my service. But say nothing of this. It's better if no one knows of our plans. We'll talk again tomorrow."

Sansa cried as Septa Mordane marched them down the steps. They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun.

Instead, through her wilful, rebellious efforts Sansa ended up locked up in King's Landing, and then the Eyrie, instead of Winterfell!  This goes towards endorsing the idea you expressed on the poetry thread, that 'reigning in hell' is the same as being a slave, and not freedom at all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting this fascinating Study in Blue, @ravenous reader and  @Pain killer Jane

It's given me food for thought for what will be a very long working day.

Yes, it's way off topic, but... has anyone brought up the últimate doublecrossing falcon?

http://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/great-movie-the-maltese-falcon-1941/homepage_EB20010513REVIEWS08105130301AR.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Thanks for posting this fascinating Study in Blue, @ravenous reader and  @Pain killer Jane

It's given me food for thought for what will be a very long working day.

Yes, it's way off topic, but... has anyone brought up the últimate doublecrossing falcon?

http://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/great-movie-the-maltese-falcon-1941/homepage_EB20010513REVIEWS08105130301AR.jpg

 

Honestly I never really thought about it. If anything the fact that the Falcon was gold and jewel encrusted was painted black and the treachery of a woman as the catalyst for the story is a good avenue of research. If anything the novel is a good read and Bogy is always nice to watch with a bucket of popcorn. 

Since we are on oldies I tend to think that Coldhands is GRRM's allusions to The Lone Ranger. "High Ho, Silver!" And all of that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Thanks for posting this fascinating Study in Blue, @ravenous reader and  @Pain killer Jane

It's given me food for thought for what will be a very long working day.

Yes, it's way off topic, but... has anyone brought up the últimate doublecrossing falcon?

I'm glad you enjoyed it, Prof!  :)  I don't really believe in 'going off topic,' or 'derailing' threads, the policing of which has always struck me as mildly pretentious ...so rest assured, all kinds of creativity are welcome on my threads (have you checked out my poetry thread yet?).  To your point, strangely enough GRRM has read and mentioned 'The Maltese Falcon', for example in this interview, although I'm not sure to what extent it may have been an influence on his work, or whether he has incorporated any symbolism of which we ought to take note:

Quote

Ultimately, it’ll be different. You have to recognize that there are going to be some differences. I’m very pleased with how faithful the show is to the books, but it’s never gonna be exactly the same. You can’t include all the characters. You’re not going to include their real lines of dialogue or subplot, and hopefully each will stand on its own. We have Gone With the Wind the movie and we have Gone With the Wind the book. They’re similar but they’re not the same. There are three version of The Maltese Falcon, none of which are exactly the same as the novel The Maltese Falcon. Each one stands on its own and has its own value and is great in its own way. Rings is a great example. There are Tolkien purists who hate Peter Jackson’s versions, but I think they’re a small minority. Most people who love Tolkien love what Jackson did, even though he may have omitted Tom Bombadil. He captured the spirit of the books.

It's difficult for me to make a judgment, since I've neither seen the movie nor read the book!  What are your thoughts?  From what I can gather, the overarching themes are deception and ambition in the obsessive pursuit of the 'black jewel-encrusted falcon' statuette, for which several people are willing to spin a web of lies and commit murder.  In our case, we've been discussing the unscrupulous double-crossing traitor, most likely a greenseer, as a 'blue falcon,' although GRRM also uses the related 'red hawk' for example to describe the lengths Stannis is willing to go to in order to usurp power, so perhaps the specific color of the falcon/raptor is not crucial:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Davos I

"I trusted in his wisdom and your wiles, and what did they avail me, smuggler? The storm lords sent you packing. I went to them a beggar and they laughed at me. Well, there will be no more begging, and no more laughing either. The Iron Throne is mine by rights, but how am I to take it? There are four kings in the realm, and three of them have more men and more gold than I do. I have ships . . . and I have her. The red woman. Half my knights are afraid even to say her name, did you know? If she can do nothing else, a sorceress who can inspire such dread in grown men is not to be despised. A frightened man is a beaten man. And perhaps she can do more. I mean to find out.

"When I was a lad I found an injured goshawk and nursed her back to health. Proudwing, I named her. She would perch on my shoulder and flutter from room to room after me and take food from my hand, but she would not soar. Time and again I would take her hawking, but she never flew higher than the treetops. Robert called her Weakwing. He owned a gyrfalcon named Thunderclap who never missed her strike. One day our great-uncle Ser Harbert told me to try a different bird. I was making a fool of myself with Proudwing, he said, and he was right." Stannis Baratheon turned away from the window, and the ghosts who moved upon the southern sea. "The Seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow. It is time I tried another hawk, Davos. A red hawk."

This passage shows a softer side of Stannis.  Could you imagine either Robert or Renly nursing anyone back to health?  No -- both too vain and selfish.  It's sad that Stannis the sensitive, neglected child became so corrupted in his desire to outdo his more charismatic, and also more heartless, brothers.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Victarion I

"Much and more." The black priest pointed to one golden band. "Here the horn is named. 'I am Dragonbinder,' it says. Have you ever heard it sound?"

"Once." One of his brother's mongrels had sounded the hellhorn at the kingsmoot on Old Wyk. A monster of a man he had been, huge and shaven-headed, with rings of gold and jet and jade around arms thick with muscle, and a great hawk tattooed across his chest. "The sound it made … it burned, somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot, then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one."

"And the man who blew the horn, what of him?"

"He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too." The captain thumped his chest. "The hawk, just here. Every feather dripping blood. I heard the man was all burned up inside, but that might just have been some tale."

The corruption of the gyrfalcon reminds me of this poem:

 

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

       THE SECOND COMING

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

    The darkness drops again but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Honestly I never really thought about it. If anything the fact that the Falcon was gold and jewel encrusted was painted black and the treachery of a woman as the catalyst for the story is a good avenue of research. If anything the novel is a good read and Bogy is always nice to watch with a bucket of popcorn. 

Since we are on oldies I tend to think that Coldhands is GRRM's allusions to The Lone Ranger. "High Ho, Silver!" And all of that. 

Yes, Bogey is always nice to watch.

The WW II source of the 'Blue Falcon' phrase set off my thinking of the mindset of the era and of course Bogart´s films showcase that wit, constantly skirting censorship.

Coldhands as a hat tip to westerns. Very good!

 

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I'm glad you enjoyed it, Prof!  :)  I don't really believe in 'going off topic,' or 'derailing' threads, the policing of which has always struck me as mildly pretentious ...so rest assured, all kinds of creativity are welcome on my threads (have you checked out my poetry thread yet?).  To your point, strangely enough GRRM has read and mentioned 'The Maltese Falcon', for example in this interview, although I'm not sure to what extent it may have been an influence on his work, or whether he has incorporated any symbolism of which we ought to take note:

It's difficult for me to make a judgment, since I've neither seen the movie nor read the book!  What are your thoughts?  From what I can gather, the overarching themes are deception and ambition in the obsessive pursuit of the 'black jewel-encrusted falcon' statuette, for which several people are willing to spin a web of lies and commit murder.  In our case, we've been discussing the unscrupulous double-crossing traitor, most likely a greenseer, as a 'blue falcon,' although GRRM also uses the related 'red hawk' for example to describe the lengths Stannis is willing to go to in order to usurp power, so perhaps the specific color of the falcon/raptor is not crucial:

This passage shows a softer side of Stannis.  Could you imagine either Robert or Renly nursing anyone back to health?  No -- both too vain and selfish.  It's sad that Stannis the sensitive, neglected child became so corrupted in his desire to outdo his more charismatic, and also more heartless, brothers.

The corruption of the gyrfalcon reminds me of this poem:

 

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

       THE SECOND COMING

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

    The darkness drops again but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

 

Thanks for the tolerance of my breaking into your convo. It's a bad habit of mine, but one that's not ill-intentioned. 

I see you are both poetically-minded, so I hoped new sources of possible layers, meanings and facets would not be amiss.

I was struck by the WW II origins of the "Blue Falcon" and so came to the Maltese Falcon.

The film is a classic, and not by chance. Well worth watching! I've not read the book. Yet.

 

What a powerful poem of Yeats that is. I wonder just what is awaiting Westeros. 

I read your thread on poetry and enjoy observing your convos there.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ravenous reader forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but you do know about the spiritual armor described in the New testament?

Quote

Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Ephesians 6:17)

The word of God is a sword, flat out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, LmL said:

 

@ravenous reader forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but you do know about the spiritual armor described in the New testament?

Quote

Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. (Ephesians 6:17)

The word of God is a sword, flat out.

No, judging from the guarded resistance in general to the idea of a 'killing word,' you're not stating the obvious (and anyway I like it when you state the obvious!) :)

Funny you should mention it;  @YOVMO had some great biblical and other observations along those lines here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ravenous reader said:

No, judging from the guarded resistance in general to the idea of a 'killing word,' you're not stating the obvious (and anyway I like it when you state the obvious!) :)

Funny you should mention it;  @YOVMO had some great biblical and other observations along those lines here.

That's what made me think of it but I figured it really belonged over here. :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, I got another "you might have thought of this already, but..."  

So have you thought about the word quarrel, as in a crossbow quarrel which is also an argument?

 
Quote

"Of course he died, he had my quarrel in his throat. There was a woman throwing rocks, I got her as well, but only in the arm." Frowning, he lowered the crossbow. "I'd shoot you too, but if I do Mother says they'd kill my uncle Jaime. Instead you'll just be punished and we'll send word to your brother about what will happen to you if he doesn't yield. Dog, hit her."

"Let me beat her!" Ser Dontos shoved forward, tin armor clattering. He was armed with a "morningstar" whose head was a melon. My Florian. She could have kissed him, blotchy skin and broken veins and all. He trotted his broomstick around her, shouting "Traitor, traitor" and whacking her over the head with the melon. Sansa covered herself with her hands, staggering every time the fruit pounded her, her hair sticky by the second blow. People were laughing. The melon flew to pieces. Laugh, Joffrey, she prayed as the juice ran down her face and the front of her blue silk gown. Laugh and be satisfied.

 

I'm not really sure who would have a hard time seeing this killing word symbolism, it seems readily apparent (heh heh). 
Sun King loses the killing word arrow. His victims are hit in the throat and arm (arm and neck, Hammer of the Water injuries). A woman throwing rocks is the moon throwing meteors. Moon maiden hit with a morningstar by a fool she wants to kiss, face turned red in weirwood stigmata. Staggering, because she is like a weirwood eating a stag / drinking the blood of the sacrificed stag / fool character. Then her breast is bared like NN so the white swords can beat her. She's then covered by the Hound's white cloak - the moon meteor stone lodging in the ice, just as Alayne Stone lodges in the Eyrie. 
But in the beginning, there was the killing word, and it was a quarrel. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh man, even better - who liberates Sansa from the clutches of the Others / KG? Tyrion and Timmet, son of Timmet:

Quote

 

What is the meaning of this?"

The Imp's voice cracked like a whip, and suddenly Sansa was free. She stumbled to her knees, arms crossed over her chest, her breath ragged. "Is this your notion of chivalry, Ser Boros?" Tyrion Lannister demanded angrily. His pet sellsword stood with him, and one of his wildlings, the one with the burned eye. "What sort of knight beats helpless maids?"

 

Timmet son of Timmet, a Red Hand of the Burned Men with one eye who comes from the mountains of the moon (almost like symbolic overload there George). And Tyrion, dragon gargoyle demon monkey man. His voice like a whip is ANOTHER KILLING WORD to free the moon maiden. Or perhaps this is more of the same, with Tyrion replaying the same symbolism of Joffrey, triggering the release of moon dragons with a whip as Drogo's fiery lash cracked open the dragon eggs. Tyrion says "someone give her something to cover herself with," and then she is covered in the white wool of Sandor's cloak. So Tyrion is actually imprisoning her in the ice. 

What do you think RR? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@YOVMO I am replying to your comment over hear because of... reasons. 
 

Oh don't get me started on Swords and Hymens and the fresh blood that comes from a fresh piercing and lands on the virgin snow.....oh we are going to go..........I can't believe I'm saying this........deep on this one.

Not sure if you have read my latest one (link in my signature), but I traced out that exact symbol, the red blood on the fresh white snow... I believe it is all about AA as a solar sacrifice, the dying red sun, whose blood is drunk by the wwnet. Just as Jon dies and goes into his weirwood colored wolf, the original AA died and went into the trees. That, I believe, is the meaning of the lightning bolt setting the tree on fire and giving the fire of the gods to man... AA set the wwnet on fire, in a manner of speaking. His face is the face we see in the trees, trapped like a minotaur in the labyrinth of the wwnet. 

Or at least, that was the cliff notes! lol

In any case, I have also picke dup on a line of symbolism where Nissa Nissa and the weirwoods are playing the same role. Many women turn into symbolic ww trees (Cat at the red wedding for example, bloody eyes and hands and mouth, a couple other things), and thus you could think about a ww without a face as a virgin, absolutely. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LmL said:

@YOVMO I am replying to your comment over hear because of... reasons. 
 

Not sure if you have read my latest one (link in my signature), but I traced out that exact symbol, the red blood on the fresh white snow... I believe it is all about AA as a solar sacrifice, the dying red sun, whose blood is drunk by the wwnet. Just as Jon dies and goes into his weirwood colored wolf, the original AA died and went into the trees. That, I believe, is the meaning of the lightning bolt setting the tree on fire and giving the fire of the gods to man... AA set the wwnet on fire, in a manner of speaking. His face is the face we see in the trees, trapped like a minotaur in the labyrinth of the wwnet. 

Or at least, that was the cliff notes! lol

In any case, I have also picke dup on a line of symbolism where Nissa Nissa and the weirwoods are playing the same role. Many women turn into symbolic ww trees (Cat at the red wedding for example, bloody eyes and hands and mouth, a couple other things), and thus you could think about a ww without a face as a virgin, absolutely. 

I haven't yet, I've been away and am just putting my toes in now. I do believe what you say here has the potential for some very juicy fruit and will ready your write-up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, YOVMO said:

I haven't yet, I've been away and am just putting my toes in now. I do believe what you say here has the potential for some very juicy fruit and will ready your write-up!

Sweet, I was just trying to give you enough to convince you it was worth your time, success! Read RR's thing first probably, it's a bit shorter. Also, you can listen to mine as a podcast while you commute or whatever, if you prefer. The podcast is always linked from the essay on my wordpress, or you can find it on itunes. I definitely think you will like it, given you recent line of thinking. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/25/2017 at 9:59 PM, ravenous reader said:

In that scene where she is hauled in front of Cersei and the rest of the unctuously false small council, for Cersei to toy with her following her father's arrest, Sansa is very eager to serve up her sister as the one with 'traitor's blood'.  In effect, she denies her own 'wolf's blood', a denouncement which directly led to her losing her wolf and family.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Sansa IV

Queen Cersei looked to the others. "My lords of the council, what do you say to her plea?"

 

"The poor child," murmured Varys. "A love so true and innocent, Your Grace, it would be cruel to deny it . . . and yet, what can we do? Her father stands condemned." His soft hands washed each other in a gesture of helpless distress.

Lady Macbeth allusion -- implying Varys has blood on his hands.

Quote

"A child born of traitor's seed will find that betrayal comes naturally to her," said Grand Maester Pycelle. "She is a sweet thing now, but in ten years, who can say what treasons she may hatch?"

"No," Sansa said, horrified. "I'm not, I'd never . . . I wouldn't betray Joffrey, I love him, I swear it, I do."

"Oh, so poignant," said Varys. "And yet, it is truly said that blood runs truer than oaths."

"She reminds me of the mother, not the father," Lord Petyr Baelish said quietly. "Look at her. The hair, the eyes. She is the very image of Cat at the same age."

The queen looked at her, troubled, and yet Sansa could see kindness in her clear green eyes. "Child," she said, "if I could truly believe that you were not like your father, why nothing should please me more than to see you wed to my Joffrey. I know he loves you with all his heart." She sighed. "And yet, I fear that Lord Varys and the Grand Maester have the right of it. The blood will tell. I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son."

"I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. I'm good, ask Septa Mordane, she'll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey's loyal and loving wife."

Nice catch on Varys. There is this aspect of the self-fulfilling prophecy here as later on Sansa admits at least to herself that she commits treason and she justifies it by acknowledging that the Queen and Joffrey are evil. So Sansa already knows that she is a traitor but she hasn't realized that she betrayed her family with her actions.

On 4/25/2017 at 9:59 PM, ravenous reader said:

Here, Sansa like Will is watching proceedings at a distance.  She's accompanied by Vayon Poole whose sigil is a blue circle on white which resembles not only a blue pool but a blue moon -- i.e. a 'traitor's moon'!  As you were saying above about Jeyne as FArya, telling a lie is like being a turncloak, which Sansa also displays here in deed and accompanying symbolism.  Fittingly, Sansa also wears the colors of the blue falcon at this moment -- blue, white and silver.

Nice catch with her silence and the symbolism. I suspect that Vayon's name is meant to be vayn, i.e. vein,vane, vain since all three words are associated with the reflective nature of the pool, the vanity within the motivations of the Blue Falcon's actions; vane as in weathervane and you know my feelings on the Blue Rooster; vane is also the pointy end of the shaft of a feather i.e. the part where the word is written; and vein as in blood vein and here the blood is blue.

On 4/25/2017 at 9:59 PM, ravenous reader said:

Hey PK -- notice her freshly groomed ('washed'..?) hair like a river of blood, which might tie in to your ideas above about the 'white washing' of the greenseers attempting to cover up their treacherous ways.  The red of Jaqen's, Sansa's and indeed Bran's hair can not be washed out, just like the blood in the mortar of Harrenhal cannot be washed clean, no matter how long Arya or another 'washer woman' scrubs those steps!

Also, the cascading, brushed-out red hair like Ygritte's symbolises the changing of the seasons, the comet, or 'the sword which slays the seasons' -- with the implication that a 'killing word' issued by a 'blue falcon' was responsible for ushering in the Long Night.

 Absolutely I noticed the hair. The hair as a symbol of power is extremely significant. It ties in with the hares on the points of spears of the Wild Hares, the Dothraki removing hair in disgrace after a lost battle, the Qohoric Unsullied wearing hair on their belts, the Unsullied ritual receiving their spiked caps on the killing of a child, Gilly-the pregnant rabbit keeper, and fertility power.

I completely agree that it is alluding to the whitewashing and therefore the hair should be considered a dirty mop cleaning up a dirty spill. But also Sansa's hair here as she is in the blue and white colors of the Blue Traitor Moon is symbolically saying The Blood Betrayal. As well as the change from the actual power of fertility to the faux symbols of fertility power such as swords, daggers...etc..etc that actually bring death instead. This is one of the meanings of Ghost getting into the rabbit pen and eating all of Gilly's rabbits. 

Ghost as the greenseer ate/cannibalized the fertility power of the gods which then allowed for rebirth/resurrection of the dead which from the few scenes of the wights and your own words, it is a pale sort of life. 

On 4/25/2017 at 9:59 PM, ravenous reader said:

What I've been suggesting all along is that instead of embarking on some ambitious, grand cosmic adventure, the perpetrator of the Long Night was like Sansa merely engaging in a bit of petty sibling rivalry, which ended up having far greater and more damaging consequences than ever imagined.  

 Absolutely. 

I suspect that the events have to do with Garth's daughters; Florys, Rowan, Rose, Maris, and Ellyn. I suspect that the man who jilted Rowan was Uthor of the Hightower for her sister Maris, the most fair just maid. 

On 4/25/2017 at 9:59 PM, ravenous reader said:

Sansa is also supposed to be a partial reworking of the 'virgin queen'  Queen Elisabeth I, who like Sansa had the famous red hair and was also a bit of a 'blue falcon'.  For example, she beheaded her own half-sister Mary.  There are further similarities in their sad and troubled childhoods to which GRRM may be alluding:

I never once caught on to that but yes you are right. 

One thing you didn't mention was that Elizabeth closely associated herself with pelicans because in the Middle ages it was believed that they were symbols of the resurrection through bleeding themselves to feed their hungry babies. And you know what else pertains to this seabird, is another seabird- the albatross. A bird that was considered lucky by sailors till one shot it down and he was cursed to live forever. This is related to the other symbolism of Sansa, the sacrificed lucky penny woman.  (The Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Samuel Taylor Coleridge)

Did I tell you that I suspect, given the associations of the Blue Falcon's military origins, hellhounds, betrayal of brothers, the Ironborn's seafaring ways, could be rooted in the symbolism of Marines, particularly American Marines?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/27/2017 at 3:43 PM, LmL said:

Hey, I got another "you might have thought of this already, but..."  

So have you thought about the word quarrel, as in a crossbow quarrel which is also an argument?

 
I'm not really sure who would have a hard time seeing this killing word symbolism, it seems readily apparent (heh heh). 
Sun King loses the killing word arrow. His victims are hit in the throat and arm (arm and neck, Hammer of the Water injuries). A woman throwing rocks is the moon throwing meteors. Moon maiden hit with a morningstar by a fool she wants to kiss, face turned red in weirwood stigmata. Staggering, because she is like a weirwood eating a stag / drinking the blood of the sacrificed stag / fool character. Then her breast is bared like NN so the white swords can beat her. She's then covered by the Hound's white cloak - the moon meteor stone lodging in the ice, just as Alayne Stone lodges in the Eyrie. 
But in the beginning, there was the killing word, and it was a quarrel. 

RR and I had a conversation about the word quarrel. I tend to think that the word row as in the British usage meaning fight and row- the act of propelling a boat forward is related to this as well and RR pointed out that there is significant sexual allusions to rowing. 

Btw, sorry I haven't commented on your latest piece. I loved the ember in ashes portion the most. I will comment when I put together the association of lies being moths, moths on fire being Lantern Bugs/Fireflies and the Crone with her lantern letting the first Raven into the World that relates to the ember in the ashes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@LmL Isn't that pun ('quarrel') great?  @Pain killer Jane and I were just discussing that one the other day, with respect to Walder Frey vs. Robb and Jaime vs. Brienne, but I had not thought of your excellent example!

Walder Frey's sharp-tongued quarrel with the Starks translated as the sharp arrows unleashed at the Red Wedding in response to Robb having broken his word.  It's important to note that the Red Wedding was justified by the perpetrators on the basis of a broken word, so in a way Robb with his own 'killing word' (via which Robb would be the figurative 'blue falcon' here, even before Frey acted as a blue falcon in turn) brought his own death upon himself.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion VI

"The boy is thirteen. There is time yet." Lord Tywin paced to the window. That was unlike him; he was more upset than he wished to show. "He requires a sharp lesson."

Tyrion had gotten his own sharp lesson at thirteen. He felt almost sorry for his nephew. On the other hand, no one deserved it more. "Enough of Joffrey," he said. "Wars are won with quills and ravens, wasn't that what you said? 

 

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V

And may the gods protect us if it does not. Catelyn pressed her heels into her horse, leaving her brother and Lame Lothar to each other's company.

It had been her who had insisted that Jeyne remain at Riverrun, when Robb would sooner have kept her by his side. Lord Walder might well construe the queen's absence from the wedding as another slight, yet her presence would have been a different sort of insult, salt in the old man's wound. "Walder Frey has a sharp tongue and a long memory," she had warned her son. "I do not doubt that you are strong enough to suffer an old man's rebukes as the price of his allegiance, but you have too much of your father in you to sit there while he insults Jeyne to her face."

 

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Catelyn VII

Catelyn slapped him so hard she broke his lip. Olyvar, she thought, and Perwyn, Alesander, all absent. And Roslin wept . . .

Edwyn Frey shoved her aside. The music drowned all other sound, echoing off the walls as if the stones themselves were playing. Robb gave Edwyn an angry look and moved to block his way . . . and staggered suddenly as a quarrel sprouted from his side, just beneath the shoulder. If he screamed then, the sound was swallowed by the pipes and horns and fiddles. Catelyn saw a second bolt pierce his leg, saw him fall. Up in the gallery, half the musicians had crossbows in their hands instead of drums or lutes. She ran toward her son, until something punched in the small of the back and the hard stone floor came up to slap her. "Robb!" she screamed. She saw Smalljon Umber wrestle a table off its trestles. Crossbow bolts thudded into the wood, one two three, as he flung it down on top of his king. Robin Flint was ringed by Freys, their daggers rising and falling. Ser Wendel Manderly rose ponderously to his feet, holding his leg of lamb. A quarrel went in his open mouth and came out the back of his neck. Ser Wendel crashed forward, knocking the table off its trestles and sending cups, flagons, trenchers, platters, turnips, beets, and wine bouncing, spilling, and sliding across the floor.

Fitting how the 'quarrel in the mouth' like the dagger in Will's mouth underscores the correlation between quarrels as words -- since we produce words with our mouths -- and correspondingly quarrels as a physical backlash in response to the words we utter.  Hence, the quarrel coming back at him through his open mouth and through his neck.  In similar fashion, the wighted Waymar strangles Will in response for his treachery (which I'm positing started with his words, as indicated by the dagger in the mouth).

In the case of Jaime, there's that delightfully witty episode in which Jaime is being disingenuous, denying the hurtful impact of his words -- the 'quarrel' -- directed at Brienne.  It's ironic given that Brienne despite being the one with the sword is disarmed by Jaime's 'killing words'!

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jaime I

"Tarth," Jaime said. "A ghastly large rock in the narrow sea, as I recall. And Evenfall is sworn to Storm's End. How is it that you serve Robb of Winterfell? "

"It is Lady Catelyn I serve. And she commanded me to deliver you safe to your brother Tyrion at King's Landing, not to bandy words with you. Be silent."

"I've had a bellyful of silence, woman."

"Talk with Ser Cleos then. I have no words for monsters."

Jaime hooted. "Are there monsters hereabouts? Hiding beneath the water, perhaps? In that thick of willows? And me without my sword!"

"A man who would violate his own sister, murder his king, and fling an innocent child to his death deserves no other name."

Innocent? The wretched boy was spying on us. All Jaime had wanted was an hour alone with Cersei. Their journey north had been one long torment; seeing her every day, unable to touch her, knowing that Robert stumbled drunkenly into her bed every night in that great creaking wheelhouse. Tyrion had done his best to keep him in a good humor, but it had not been enough. "You will be courteous as concerns Cersei, wench," he warned her.

"My name is Brienne, not wench."

"What do you care what a monster calls you?"

"My name is Brienne," she repeated, dogged as a hound.

"Lady Brienne?" She looked so uncomfortable that Jaime sensed a weakness. "Or would Ser Brienne be more to your taste?" He laughed. "No, I fear not. You can trick out a milk cow in crupper, crinet, and chamfron, and bard her all in silk, but that doesn't mean you can ride her into battle."

"Cousin Jaime, please, you ought not speak so roughly." Under his cloak, Ser Cleos wore a surcoat quartered with the twin towers of House Frey and the golden lion of Lannister. "We have far to go, we should not quarrel amongst ourselves."

"When I quarrel I do it with a sword, coz. I was speaking to the lady. Tell me, wench, are all the women on Tarth as homely as you? I pity the men, if so. Perhaps they do not know what real women look like, living on a dreary mountain in the sea."

"Tarth is beautiful, " the wench grunted between strokes. "The Sapphire Isle, it's called. Be quiet, monster, unless you mean to make me gag you."

"She's rude as well, isn't she, coz?" Jaime asked Ser Cleos. "Though she has steel in her spine, I'll grant you. Not many men dare name me monster to my face." Though behind my back they speak freely enough, I have no doubt.

Ser Cleos coughed nervously. "Lady Brienne had those lies from Catelyn Stark, no doubt. The Starks cannot hope to defeat you with swords, ser, so now they make war with poisoned words."

They did defeat me with swords, you chinless cretin. Jaime smiled knowingly. Men will read all sorts of things into a knowing smile, if you let them. Has cousin Cleos truly swallowed this kettle of dung, or is he striving to ingratiate himself? What do we have here, an honest muttonhead or a lickspittle?

 

Quote

"Of course he died, he had my quarrel in his throat. There was a woman throwing rocks, I got her as well, but only in the arm." Frowning, he lowered the crossbow. "I'd shoot you too, but if I do Mother says they'd kill my uncle Jaime. Instead you'll just be punished and we'll send word to your brother about what will happen to you if he doesn't yield. Dog, hit her."

"Let me beat her!" Ser Dontos shoved forward, tin armor clattering. He was armed with a "morningstar" whose head was a melon. My Florian. She could have kissed him, blotchy skin and broken veins and all. He trotted his broomstick around her, shouting "Traitor, traitor" and whacking her over the head with the melon. Sansa covered herself with her hands, staggering every time the fruit pounded her, her hair sticky by the second blow. People were laughing. The melon flew to pieces. Laugh, Joffrey, she prayed as the juice ran down her face and the front of her blue silk gown. Laugh and be satisfied.

 

Quote

I'm not really sure who would have a hard time seeing this killing word symbolism, it seems readily apparent (heh heh). 

LOL ;)

Quote
Sun King looses the killing word arrow. His victims are hit in the throat and arm (arm and neck, Hammer of the Water injuries). A woman throwing rocks is the moon throwing meteors. Moon maiden hit with a morningstar by a fool she wants to kiss, face turned red in weirwood stigmata. Staggering, because she is like a weirwood eating a stag / drinking the blood of the sacrificed stag / fool character. Then her breast is bared like NN so the white swords can beat her. She's then covered by the Hound's white cloak - the moon meteor stone lodging in the ice, just as Alayne Stone lodges in the Eyrie. 
But in the beginning, there was the killing word, and it was a quarrel. 

A tour de force...clap (can't find emoticon)!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:
Quote
Sun King looses the killing word arrow. His victims are hit in the throat and arm (arm and neck, Hammer of the Water injuries). A woman throwing rocks is the moon throwing meteors. Moon maiden hit with a morningstar by a fool she wants to kiss, face turned red in weirwood stigmata. Staggering, because she is like a weirwood eating a stag / drinking the blood of the sacrificed stag / fool character. Then her breast is bared like NN so the white swords can beat her. She's then covered by the Hound's white cloak - the moon meteor stone lodging in the ice, just as Alayne Stone lodges in the Eyrie. 
But in the beginning, there was the killing word, and it was a quarrel. 

A tour de force...clap (can't find emoticon)

And those arrows were tipped with poison.

Quote

"Sansa, permit me to share a bit of womanly wisdom with you on this very special day. Love is poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same."

-Sansa IV, aCoK

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

And those arrows were tipped with poison.

How are Joff's arrows associated will love? I don't see that

 

1 hour ago, Pain killer Jane said:

Btw, sorry I haven't commented on your latest piece. I loved the ember in ashes portion the most. I will comment when I put together the association of lies being moths, moths on fire being Lantern Bugs/Fireflies and the Crone with her lantern letting the first Raven into the World that relates to the ember in the ashes. 

Yeah dude, have been wondering where you been. I understand doing your own research and not having room for a whole set of new ideas though, I feel that way sometimes. That's why I sometimes cannot process what you and RR and all the other sharp pencils on first go - sometimes by brain reaches a saturation level. Anyway, you better comment soon or I will put out another podcast and you will be behind!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...