ravenous reader

'The Killing Word' -- A Re-examination of the Prologue

176 posts in this topic

Uuuuh, People Have To Do Something Before They Die, And Having Them Be Meek would telegraph their deaths, so they all want to be the upper tier characters who don't die, and to better imagine themselves this they engage in mockery to present the cosmos with a substitute to kill off, saying, "here you go, cruel universe, here's a sacrifice nearer to your scythe than me, less deserving of living on, surely, so take this one first."     Not all mockers are being truthful of course, so the universe chooses some to proove wrong by taking them as the least worthy of life and most worthy of death.    

Does this proove or signify anything other than pointing out the great dance of life and death takes place on these pages the same as in our reality ?      It's  like saying, "aha!  The sun rose!  See that?  That supports my theory!"     We exist in a state of mockery, by definition.  We have to take dumps daily.  Which means the cosmos mocks us, so we eat all the higher life forms on the planet and poop them out to show our disdain back to the universe.   But then by doing so we undermine the ecosystem and go extinct and the joke's on us.  

What I'm saying is this doesn't amount to a secret fantasy formula within the books, this is part of how George models Reality in the books, openly, as part of his main political thesis about "try to prolong your life by being a wise player of the game and not boastfully unwise."

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Uuuuh, People Have To Do Something Before They Die, And Having Them Be Meek would telegraph their deaths, so they all want to be the upper tier characters who don't die, and to better imagine themselves this they engage in mockery to present the cosmos with a substitute to kill off, saying, "here you go, cruel universe, here's a sacrifice nearer to your scythe than me, less deserving of living on, surely, so take this one first."    

There's some poetry in your word salad yet!   :cheers:

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Not all mockers are being truthful of course, so the universe chooses some to proove wrong by taking them as the least worthy of life and most worthy of death.    

As the saying goes, 'Valar morghulis.'

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Does this proove or signify anything other than pointing out the great dance of life and death takes place on these pages the same as in our reality ?      It's  like saying, "aha!  The sun rose!  See that?  That supports my theory!"     We exist in a state of mockery, by definition.  

Yes, in your meta-referential text, you're demonstrating my premise by default, thank you!  

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We have to take dumps daily.  Which means the cosmos mocks us, so we eat all the higher life forms on the planet and poop them out to show our disdain back to the universe.   But then by doing so we undermine the ecosystem and go extinct and the joke's on us.  

You've pointed out the karmic irony nicely there; I'm sure GRRM would approve. 

Now that you mention it, upthread you'll find my discussion with @Pain killer Jane regarding our ongoing collaboration on a grand theory of self-explanatory 'shittiness by whitewashing' (or was it the other way around, whitewashing by shittiness...) -- in any case, eternally fecund by 'commodius vicus of recirculation' -- of which you might approve, given your interest in scatalogical matters --  a veritable smorgasbord or bowl of brown bobbing with a procession of soiled knights, shit for honor, talking heads talking shit, words are wind, dust to dust, ashes to ashes, even gold smells like shit, the inexhaustible river of time which keeps upchucking its cruel gifts to the rhythm of the tides on the misnamed 'quiet isle' (perhaps that's a reference to the implacable 'universe' of which you speak), what comes around goes around, it all goes to shit in the end...and strangely enough the Others, so white so shiny so pristine, may be toxic 'back door' excrescences or excretions of the trees.  Unfortunately, we are unable to provide you with a satisfying and cohesive theory yet, since we are still 'polishing that turd,' as it were, till it gleams like a pearl of rare dimension, a jewel worthy of a place in Indra's net!

2 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

What I'm saying is this doesn't amount to a secret fantasy formula within the books

Are you looking for a secret fantasy formula?   GRRM's writing can be accessed on many different levels, depending on ones inclination.  I happen to think the Prologue is intended as an allegory pointing towards something else, or in other words an echo of some other pivotal event, another trio of brothers, culminating in an important sword-forging -- you have an idea to contribute regarding what it may be?

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, this is part of how George models Reality in the books, openly, as part of his main political thesis about "try to prolong your life by being a wise player of the game and not boastfully unwise."

That's what literature does, yes, model reality.  And the way GRRM has chosen to both 'model reality' as well as 'prolong his life by being a wise player of the game' -- the means by which he's made both his living on a mundane level and constructed his very selfhood on a spiritual plane -- is by using his chosen medium of language.  His books can be understood as a celebration of how he's overcome adversity and ascended to prominence from nowhere using that trick alone -- as reflected in the acrobatic mental rather than physical ability of his verbal alter egos and anti-heroes, the 'knights of the mind' with whom he most identifies, including characters such as Sam, Tyrion, Bran, Varys and Littlefinger.  He definitely pits 'swords' vs. 'words'-- a major recurring theme in his literature which I trust by now you also find self-evident, given its significance -- posing the question, to what extent is the pen really mightier than the sword?

Is the dictum you've placed in quotation marks your own or GRRM's words? -- that's quite a good summation.

Edited by ravenous reader

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15 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I read a very interesting post by @MaesterSam (Hi Maester Sam! :))  over on the latest 'Heresy' which is especially relevant to the ideas on this thread, and which I'd therefore like to replicate here; followed by a synopsis which I've written of the 'killing word' idea which some may have missed on the 'Poetry' thread, for the convenience of those of you who may be new to the thread, but who don't feel like reading through the whole OP in order to gain a rough idea of the concept we've been exploring here.  

MaesterSam's quote is particularly important, because it provides direct evidence that GRRM has been invested, at least in his other writings, with the notion of a 'killing word' or rather 'killing song' -- a 'song having the power to bring about Armageddon', which is basically suggestive of a 'song' of some kind, however we end up interpreting that, having triggered the Long Night.  In the song's ability to induce a 'trance-like state' in the collective, there are also echoes of 'A Song for Lya' (@The Fattest Leech this may also be of interest to you -- have you read 'The Armageddon Rag'?).  'Controlling a host' is of course highly evocative of skinchanging; and the 'song' in question would be equivalent to whatever constitutes the telepathic signals being sent between skinchanger and host.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A long time ago on another forum I ran across something similar to this idea.  George has said that the Others are basically icy Sidhe. The Sidhe are the defeated Tuatha De Danann.  They were defeated by the Milesians when Amergin sang an invocation of the powers of Ireland to part the storm the Tuatha De had made to wreck their ships.  This person compared the song to the NW oath. 

 

"I am the wind on the sea;
I am the wave of the sea;
I am the bull of seven battles;
I am the eagle on the rock
I am a flash from the sun;
I am the most beautiful of plants;
I am a strong wild boar;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the head of the spear in battle;
I am the god that puts fire in the head;
Who spreads light in the gathering on the hills?
Who can tell the ages of the moon?
Who can tell the place where the sun rests?"[
 
 

  The Sidhe and probably the Others had a legitimate complaint about having their home taken even though neither was probably blameless and they probably both took the land from someone else.  I am familiar with the book you are talking about.  Putting it beside the quote about the Old Man of the River and the Crab King is interesting.  Those two are another version of the brothers fighting in the WWnet.  Someone got them to sing together and end the long night.  If that is the case why do they seem to be fighting again?  What grievance do they still have?  The Prince that was promised was probably the child born from Nissa Nissa, the father of whom would be unknown between the two brothers.  Maybe he/she got the two to stop fighting.  My other recent idea about the two lover's minds being held apart by the Wall may be involved with getting everyone to come together and sing.  I am starting to think that rather than hold them apart to prevent the LN, you need to let them merge and them restore them in someway so that their being together does not cause so much pain.  Maybe that is how you prevent future messed up seasons.  I am going to give some more credit to Last Hearth, because my thinking is starting to look more like @Voice's miasma idea where the Wall is like a poor attempt to fight against the enemy when really it needs to come down so everyone can atone and get along.  It may be that the NW oath sounds like the song of Amergin because that song, like the Wall, is the problem.  That song forced the Tuatha underground to become the Sidhe.  It is probably not the harmonious song of Ice and Fire that would heal the old wounds.  That one may not have been sung yet.  The quote about the Old Man of the River and the Crab King would suggest otherwise, but then why is everything still out of balance?             

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, Unchained said:

A long time ago on another forum I ran across something similar to this idea.  George has said that the Others are basically icy Sidhe. The Sidhe are the defeated Tuatha De Danann.  They were defeated by the Milesians when Amergin sang an invocation of the powers of Ireland to part the storm the Tuatha De had made to wreck their ships.  This person compared the song to the NW oath. 

 

"I am the wind on the sea;
I am the wave of the sea;
I am the bull of seven battles;
I am the eagle on the rock
I am a flash from the sun;
I am the most beautiful of plants;
I am a strong wild boar;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the head of the spear in battle;
I am the god that puts fire in the head;
Who spreads light in the gathering on the hills?
Who can tell the ages of the moon?
Who can tell the place where the sun rests?"[

Hi Unchained -- thanks for popping by with all these great observations, to which I will be responding more fully later...I'm glad that you brought up the Song of Amergin, which previously came up on the poetry thread (it's worth checking out the link I provided, beautiful music clip by 'Dead Can Dance' and various versions of the poem, one of which refers to being 'a cutting word...a cold word' which is interesting in light of our 'killing word' ideas, specifically evoking the 'cold butchery' that goes down with nary more than the trace of a 'whispered word' in the Prologue).  I don't know about other forums, but on this one to the best of my knowledge, it was first @Kingmonkey, followed by @Sly Wren and then more recently our @Wizz-The-Smith who have meditated on its significance to ASOIAF.

Back with more later -- I will return when I'm done wrestling with the crocodile on the great grey-green greasy water stair...(or, in other words, completing my response to Crowfood and Seams' innovative ideas about Littlefinger's water-trap!)

Edited by ravenous reader

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I think your analysis lacks heart, or an incorporation of the emotional story. I don't think we are meant to sympathize with Royce as he is the entitled leader who gets everyone killed through pig headed foolishness. He's young and brave and inexperienced and that somewhat offsets his dreadful decisions. 

This is not a series that has clean tidy symbols and the opening sets up multiple conflicts and the overall menacing problem. There are clever intellectual depths that you have tackled.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

I think your analysis lacks heart

Oho -- that's refreshing -- I haven't been accused of heartlessness in a while...

Here's some 'heart' for you:

 

If I can stop one heart from breaking,
I shall not live in vain;
If I can ease one life the aching,
Or cool one pain,
Or help one fainting robin
Unto his nest again,
I shall not live in vain. 

Emily Dickinson

 

Given that my heartlessness is unable to save yours, I guess that means I've lived in vain?

At least your surfeit of arrogance, along with Dickinson's, makes up for my broken heart.  So the universe is whole and hearty.

 

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, or an incorporation of the emotional story. I don't think we are meant to sympathize with Royce as he is the entitled leader who gets everyone killed through pig headed foolishness. He's young and brave and inexperienced and that somewhat offsets his dreadful decisions. 

We're not supposed to sympathize with Royce.  He's insufferable and invites his own demise.  The catch I've uncovered is that his attitude towards his brothers failed to inspire loyalty and actually ushered in the mutiny.

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This is not a series that has clean tidy symbols and the opening sets up multiple conflicts and the overall menacing problem. There are clever intellectual depths that you have tackled.

You like to spout forth along with Traverys on the DSM, diagnosing fictional characters you've never met, nor interviewed (technically disqualifying your diagnoses), yet you find my archetypal analysis troubling and superficial?  Oh the irony.  As to 'clever intellectual depth', let's not go there. 

Edited by ravenous reader

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19 hours ago, Unchained said:

I am starting to think that rather than hold them apart to prevent the LN, you need to let them merge and them restore them in someway so that their being together does not cause so much pain.  Maybe that is how you prevent future messed up seasons.  I am going to give some more credit to Last Hearth, because my thinking is starting to look more like @Voice's miasma idea where the Wall is like a poor attempt to fight against the enemy when really it needs to come down so everyone can atone and get along.  It may be that the NW oath sounds like the song of Amergin because that song, like the Wall, is the problem.  That song forced the Tuatha underground to become the Sidhe.  It is probably not the harmonious song of Ice and Fire that would heal the old wounds.  That one may not have been sung yet.  The quote about the Old Man of the River and the Crab King would suggest otherwise, but then why is everything still out of balance?      

:cheers:

:grouphug:

:commie:

 

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/825/weirwood-ghost

 

 

The rhetoric of America's Orange Joffrey is nothing, if not a reminder that building walls creates Others.

To end such divisions, one must literally end such divides.

 

And when we hide our greatest fears on the other side of a wall, we only make them more powerful and give them a life of their own. :devil:

[Pretend the devil is blue, ok? (we have better emojis at the Hearth) LOL]

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No heart. I accuse you right now. Empty of heart. Devoid.

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10 hours ago, Voice said:

:cheers:

:grouphug:

:commie:

 

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/825/weirwood-ghost

 

 

The rhetoric of America's Orange Joffrey is nothing, if not a reminder that building walls creates Others.

To end such divisions, one must literally end such divides.

 

And when we hide our greatest fears on the other side of a wall, we only make them more powerful and give them a life of their own. :devil:

[Pretend the devil is blue, ok? (we have better emojis at the Hearth) LOL]

I bet Brandon the Builder promised to stop having the giants and CotF flood the market with cheap goods only to hypocritically have all his ties and walls made by them, the CotF will pay for the Wall!!.  I am a UK fan so Blue Devils are the worst kind.  

 

Have you seen what I tinfoiled about in the poetry thread?  It came from a discussion about a song for Lya which you have used well before.  

 

 

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Posted (edited)

On July 3, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Unchained said:

A long time ago on another forum I ran across something similar to this idea.  George has said that the Others are basically icy Sidhe. The Sidhe are the defeated Tuatha De Danann.  They were defeated by the Milesians when Amergin sang an invocation of the powers of Ireland to part the storm the Tuatha De had made to wreck their ships.  This person compared the song to the NW oath. 

 

"I am the wind on the sea;
I am the wave of the sea;
I am the bull of seven battles;
I am the eagle on the rock
I am a flash from the sun;
I am the most beautiful of plants;
I am a strong wild boar;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the head of the spear in battle;
I am the god that puts fire in the head;
Who spreads light in the gathering on the hills?
Who can tell the ages of the moon?
Who can tell the place where the sun rests?"[

  The Sidhe and probably the Others had a legitimate complaint about having their home taken even though neither was probably blameless and they probably both took the land from someone else.

YUP!!!

On July 3, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Unchained said:

 

  I am familiar with the book you are talking about.  Putting it beside the quote about the Old Man of the River and the Crab King is interesting.  Those two are another version of the brothers fighting in the WWnet.  Someone got them to sing together and end the long night.  If that is the case why do they seem to be fighting again?  What grievance do they still have? 

 

Edited by Sly Wren
I hit post before I finished and the site won't let me edit!!!!!!! AAAACK!!!!

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@Unchained--whoops! I hit post before I was done and now the site isn't letting me edit--sorry for the mess.

1. YUP!! On the song of Amergin.

2. His song is a song of unity--I am all in one. Even echoes Jojen's statement to Bran that the land is one--there isn't supposed to be a Wall or huge divisions. Or weird seasons. Unity is needed.

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If that is the case why do they seem to be fighting again?  What grievance do they still have? 

I'm thinking the fight has been brewing for a while because of the divisions. 

But as for why it's happening again: when the Stark of Winterfell fights the Sword of the Morning Ned's dream, it's the ONlY time in any of the novels that anything is described as "blue as the eyes of death." Wight eyes and Other eyes are compared to stars. But ONLY in the moment of the fight, the rush of steel and shadow, does anything get compared to the Others' eyes. 

As @Voice argued--I think this is the moment when the Others rose again in power.

On July 3, 2017 at 4:00 PM, ravenous reader said:

I don't know about other forums, but on this one to the best of my knowledge, it was first @Kingmonkey, followed by @Sly Wren and then more recently our @Wizz-The-Smith who have meditated on its significance to ASOIAF.

:cheers:

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Posted (edited)

 

On 7/7/2017 at 10:26 AM, Sly Wren said:

@Unchained--whoops! I hit post before I was done and now the site isn't letting me edit--sorry for the mess.

1. YUP!! On the song of Amergin.

2. His song is a song of unity--I am all in one. Even echoes Jojen's statement to Bran that the land is one--there isn't supposed to be a Wall or huge divisions. Or weird seasons. Unity is needed.

 

Hey Sly Wren -- welcome  :)!  Thanks for those great links to The Last Hearth  threads, especially  @Mother of Dragons' thoughts surrounding sound as a component of 'elemental magic' (magical horns and the like), reminding us that even in the 'real world' sound is a powerful force, an invisible travelling wave that can bring about very visible and impressive physical effects via resonance (such as the well known example of a glass shattering at a certain frequency, or a bridge swaying / collapsing, etc.), as well as phenomena such as infrasonic effects on organising complex elephant behavior, or ultrasonic echolocation, etc.

On writing this OP, I had actually had the idea of a 'sonic weapon' in mind, with which I'm convinced GRRM is playing, both literally and figuratively, hence the title of this thread 'killing word' alluding to the sonic weapon employed in the movie Dune (see 'weirding way' movie clip).

The idea of bringing down a wall or other physical object with a sound or song is nothing new.  For example, we find such a phenomenon described in the Bible:

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Joshua 6:1-21 King James Version (KJV)

 

Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in.

2 And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour.

3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.

5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.

6 And Joshua the son of Nun called the priests, and said unto them, Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord.

7 And he said unto the people, Pass on, and compass the city, and let him that is armed pass on before the ark of the Lord.

8 And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on before the Lord, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord followed them.

9 And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets.

10 And Joshua had commanded the people, saying, Ye shall not shout, nor make any noise with your voice, neither shall any word proceed out of your mouth, until the day I bid you shout; then shall ye shout.

11 So the ark of the Lord compassed the city, going about it once: and they came into the camp, and lodged in the camp.

12 And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the Lord.

13 And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord went on continually, and blew with the trumpets: and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the ark of the Lord, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets.

14 And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did six days.

15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times.

16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city.

17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.

18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it.

19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: they shall come into the treasury of the Lord.

20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

King James Version (KJV)

Notice in the passage quoted above that ultimately it is not the horn that brings down the walls of Jericho, but the chorus of human voices all shouting in unison -- so from one point of view one might argue that it's a kind of 'song of unity', as you described; although I'd disagree with your assertion that it necessarily follows from there that it's a song of peace (technically, the 'song of Amergin' was also used as a weapon of war, with the objective of conquering someone else's country)!  The song is used to declare war, ravage a city and bring it and its inhabitants to their knees.  

As Werner Herzog expresses it in his movie 'Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin), '... no one has so far succeeded in singing an epic of peace. What is wrong with peace that its inspiration doesn't endure.. and that its story is hardly told?'

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Meine Helden sind nicht mehr die Krieger und Könige sondern die Dinge des Friedens, eins so gut wie das andere. Die trocknenden Zwiebeln so gut wie der Holzstamm, der durch den Morrast führt, aber noch niemandem ist es gelungen ein Epos des Friedens anzustimmen. Was ist denn ein FrIeden, das er nicht auf die Dauer begeistert, und daß sich von ihm kaum erzählen läßt? Soll ich jetzt aufgeben? Wenn ich aufgebe, dann wird die Menschheit ihren Erzähler verlieren. Und hat die Menschheit einmal ihren Erzähler verloren, so hat sie auch ihre Kindschaft verloren.

Translation:  My heroes are no longer the warriors and kings, but the things of peace, equal one to the other...The drying onions being equal to the wooden log that leads through the morass.  But no one has so far succeeded in singing an epic of peace.  What is wrong with peace, that its inspiration fails to endure, and that it is almost untellable?  Should I give up now?  If I do give up, then humanity will lose its storyteller.  And once humanity has lost its storyteller, then it will have lost its childhood.

 

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A Storm of Swords - Catelyn V

"There's a song," he remembered. "'Jenny of Oldstones, with the flowers in her hair.'"

"We're all just songs in the end. If we are lucky." She had played at being Jenny that day, had even wound flowers in her hair. And Petyr had pretended to be her Prince of Dragonflies. Catelyn could not have been more than twelve, Petyr just a boy.

Robb studied the sepulcher. "Whose grave is this?"

The bitter irony is that those whose existence is celebrated in song, and immortalized for the ages, tend to be the ones engaged in epic battles, not epics of peace, with a heavy bias favoring the victors in the narrative.  Indeed, Cat would be part of a song in the end -- just not the one she had envisioned for herself, with herself at its head, but the loser subsumed in a wash of someone else's theme song, the 'Rains of Castamere.'  Now, as Stoneheart she's determined to sing an equally vicious refrain in response.

Despite this bleak state of affairs, as Paul Atreides suggests in 'Dune' the possibility exists that a killing word might nevertheless be a healing word too, which translated to ASOIAF might entail a 'healing song' (all metaphors apply) sung in harmony between two former enemies.  @Unchained was making the point to me earlier,  when we were discussing what form the 'secret song' with the power to bring back the day may have taken in the past, as well as possible scenarios for the future, that unfortunately such 'healing songs' are few and far between in the text, and usually extracted from someone by force and/or for a payment, rather than a true reconciliation given freely.  As an example of the latter and former, respectively, there is the case of the Ghost of High Heart extracting a song from the singer Sevenstrings in exchange for her prophecy, alluding to something owing -- 'what was promised' -- while aggressively brandishing her staff:

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'And they [the old gods] remember when the First Men came with fire in their fists." She drank the last of the wine in four long swallows, flung the skin aside, and pointed her stick at Lord Beric. "I'll have my payment now. I'll have the song you promised me."  (ASOS - Arya VIII)

or the similar case of the traumatised Sandor receiving the healing Mother's blessing from Sansa, however at the end of a sword and at pain of death for the singer, which rather defeats the purpose of the unifying song, in addition to jeopardizing in its inception the viability of a lasting peace going forward:

Quote

He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. "Still can't bear to look, can you?" she heard him say. He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. "I'll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said." His dagger was out, poised at her throat. "Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life."

Her throat was dry and tight with fear, and every song she had ever known had fled from her mind. Please don't kill me, she wanted to scream, please don't. She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again, but then she remembered. It was not the song of Florian and Jonquil, but it was a song. Her voice sounded small and thin and tremulous in her ears.  (ACOK - Sansa VII)

 

 

On 7/3/2017 at 5:30 PM, Unchained said:

A long time ago on another forum I ran across something similar to this idea.  George has said that the Others are basically icy Sidhe. The Sidhe are the defeated Tuatha De Danann.  They were defeated by the Milesians when Amergin sang an invocation of the powers of Ireland to part the storm the Tuatha De had made to wreck their ships. 

Would 'parting the storm' be analogous to bringing down the Wall, or Moses parting the Red Sea?

In Tyrion's 'shipwreck chapter,' the encroaching storm is compared to a black wall of clouds, specifically a 'black bastard,' the 'bar sinister,' as @LynnS has highlighted.  Would parting the storm be akin to killing, blowing away, or generally disarming a 'black bastard'?

 

@Unchained -- could your brilliant thoughts on Bran as the divine kamikaze wind (I've resurrected those important quotes below, along with a useful summary of the Sidhe by @Wizz-The-Smith) have some bearing on the 'secret song' at hand? 

 

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This person compared the song to the NW oath. 

 

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"I am the wind on the sea;
 

[ETA:  The first element invoked is AIR -- the song begins with the breath!]

 

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"I am the wind on the sea;
I am the wave of the sea;
I am the bull of seven battles;
I am the eagle on the rock
I am a flash from the sun;
I am the most beautiful of plants;
I am a strong wild boar;
I am a salmon in the water;
I am a lake in the plain;
I am the word of knowledge;
I am the head of the spear in battle;
I am the god that puts fire in the head;
Who spreads light in the gathering on the hills?
Who can tell the ages of the moon?
Who can tell the place where the sun rests?"
 

As was pointed out by Kingmonkey, the 'Song of Amergin' also bears a striking similarity to another poem, 'The Battle of the Trees' by the ancient Welsh poet Taliesin, which begins with the following invocation (due to length, I've only quoted the beginning of the poem here):

 

I HAVE been in a multitude of shapes,
Before I assumed a consistent form.
I have been a sword, narrow, variegated,
I will believe when it is apparent.
I have been a tear in the air,
I have been the dullest of stars.
I have been a word among letters,
I have been a book in the origin.
I have been the light of lanterns,
A year and a half.
I have been a continuing bridge,
Over three score Abers.
I have been a course, I have been an eagle.
I have been a coracle in the seas:
I have been compliant in the banquet.
I have been a drop in a shower;
I have been a sword in the grasp of the hand
I have been a shield in battle.
I have been a string in a harp,
Disguised for nine years.
in water, in foam.
I have been sponge in the fire,
I have been wood in the covert.
I am not he who will not sing of
A combat though small,
The conflict in the battle of Godeu of sprigs.
Against the Guledig of Prydain,
There passed central horses,
Fleets full of riches.
There passed an animal with wide jaws,
On it there were a hundred heads.
And a battle was contested
Under the root of his tongue;
And another battle there is
In his occiput...

 

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The Sidhe and probably the Others had a legitimate complaint about having their home taken even though neither was probably blameless and they probably both took the land from someone else.  I am familiar with the book you are talking about.  Putting it beside the quote about the Old Man of the River and the Crab King is interesting.  Those two are another version of the brothers fighting in the WWnet.  Someone got them to sing together and end the long night.  If that is the case why do they seem to be fighting again?  What grievance do they still have?  The Prince that was promised was probably the child born from Nissa Nissa, the father of whom would be unknown between the two brothers.  Maybe he/she got the two to stop fighting.  My other recent idea about the two lover's minds being held apart by the Wall may be involved with getting everyone to come together and sing.  I am starting to think that rather than hold them apart to prevent the LN, you need to let them merge and them restore them in someway so that their being together does not cause so much pain.  Maybe that is how you prevent future messed up seasons.  I am going to give some more credit to Last Hearth, because my thinking is starting to look more like @Voice's miasma idea where the Wall is like a poor attempt to fight against the enemy when really it needs to come down so everyone can atone and get along.  It may be that the NW oath sounds like the song of Amergin because that song, like the Wall, is the problem.  That song forced the Tuatha underground to become the Sidhe.  It is probably not the harmonious song of Ice and Fire that would heal the old wounds.  That one may not have been sung yet.  The quote about the Old Man of the River and the Crab King would suggest otherwise, but then why is everything still out of balance?             

I agree the 'epic of peace' remains to be sung.

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He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself... (TWOIAF -- Ancient History: Dawn Age).

This, my friends, is the 'secret song' and 'Brandon' shall be singing it!

 

On 3/5/2017 at 4:50 PM, Unchained said:

I have a little more to pitch.  I think the quarrels that 'sprout' from Robb makes him into a tree, then he is killed in a sacrificial sort of way via sword to the heart and becomes a 'Grey Wind'.  So that is the previous lord of Winterfell going from tree to wind.  I see this as foreshadowing for Bran being sacrificed to become a 'divine wind' that blows away the dust and brings the summer.  I think that may be what his sudden waking from a dream to name his wolf is showing us.  I used the exact words 'divine wind' because that is what 'kamikaze' translates to.  There was once a huge invading Mongolian fleet under Kublai Khan that was going to attack Japan but was destroyed by several massive typhoons.  The suicide pilots of WW2 got there name from those storms and hoped to stop the Allied fleets.  Bran is already a pilot of sorts and if he sacrifices himself he would be a kamikaze and therefore a 'divine wind' that protects.           

 

On 3/5/2017 at 10:23 PM, Unchained said:

@LmL and @ravenous reader,

 

I expect if any of the 'Bran is a kamikaze pilot' stuff is correct we will be given a clue about it.  The Mongols are dead ringers for Dothraki in a lot of ways, (Khals vs. Khans) and if Dany manages to recruit any of them, as she has done in the tv show, to sail on the poison water we will be set up for an event similar to the first kamikaze typhoon event.  There may just be a storm, but I think it will come in the form of another person with potential kamikaze pilot symbolism who speaks of flying and may already have a degree of control over the wind, Euron.  I think he will attack them possibly during a storm and recreate the typhoon sinking the Mongols,

 

There is also the scene in the crypts I love where Shaggydog attacks maester Luwin.  I think Shaggydog represents the dark shadow cloud and Summer is Bran.  The torch falls at the feet of Brandon the statue and then Summer and Shaggy fight as giant shadows on the wall cast by the torch.  I believe that is Bran being set on fire to become a wind that can combat the dark cloud.  I really think that that scene will make sense as very important foreshadowing when we know the ending and I took my screen-name from the fact that Shaggy was supposed to be on a chain.              

 

On 3/5/2017 at 6:47 PM, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Thanks RR.  :)

Hi @Unchained, cool thread and I love the Robb-tree-Grey 'Wind' link, great work.  As RR mentioned I've recently stumbled upon some interesting information researching the hollow hills/Sidhe/wind connection.  The godlike Tuatha De Dannan/Sidhe in Celtic myth are very much like our human greenseers, they were humans with supernatural powers, seers, shape-shifters and lived extremely long lives dwelling in their hollow hills. 

It was also said the Sidhe could inhabit the wind and be seen by passers by in the rustling leaves, an inhabited godlike or divine wind.  In fact I think George is using the different meanings for the word Sidhe in Old Irish cleverly, all of which can be related to the old gods/CotF/greenseers and wind.  

I still have to research this further but here are some thoughts on the matter I posted in the Bran wind thread.     

Sidhe as hollow hills

Searching the mythology of hollow hills I found they are directly linked to Celtic myth in that they are another name for the Sidhe [or Sidhe mounds] that the Tuatha De Dannan retreated into after invasion by the Milesians.  We have only visited two hollow hills in the series, both associated with CotF and human greenseers, so I was pleased to note the other uses of the word Sidhe in connection to this...  

The Sidhe as CotF

The Sidhe are also often thought of as the ‘Faery folk of the mounds’, or small people dressed in green living in their hills etc.  There is obviously a connection to be made with the CotF here.  However, the small faery or Fey image a lot of people have of the Sidhe isn’t always the case in Irish lore.   

The Sidhe as human greenseers

The Sidhe of Irish myth [or the Tuatha De Dannan] were different in that they had gods living amongst them, human gods.  These human gods had supernatural powers, lived extremely long lives but could still be killed as mortals, and they too also lived in the hollow hills.  There are tales of these Sidhe being shapeshifters and seers as well.  Again it seems reasonable to make a connection with the human greenseers in asoiaf.    

So the word Sidhe seems to be associated with the hollow hills, and alludes to the CotF and human greenseers, but it doesn’t stop there.  In her awesome Brans powers thread  @evita mgfs noted very early on that the word ‘gust’ seemed like a clue for us readers to look out for a presence in the wind. 

Sidhe meaning wind or gust  

The word Sídhe can also be translated in Old Irish as ‘wind or gust’ and the godlike Sidhe have much to do with the wind.  They inhabit and journey in the whirling winds and when the country people see the leaves whirling on the road they bless themselves, because they believe the Sidhe to be passing by. 

Then of course there is George straight out comparing the Others to something like 'the Sidhe made of ice'. 

I shall return, it's late here.  Cheers Unchained.  :cheers:

 

Edited by ravenous reader

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Hey yall, cool to see all the wind talk here (pun intended). @Unchained I enjoyed your comments especially, the ones that @ravenous reader quoted above. So, in my study of Nissa Nissa as a tree spirit and elf woman (basically a weirwood dryad), I have come across the suggestion that the ghostly wind coming from the weirwoods is essentially the ghost of Nissa Nissa. It relates to the idea if Arya being herself a song sung by the weirwoods (as suggested by her name).

Essentially, what I am seeing is Nissa Nissa being sacrificed first, as a way of opening up the wwnet to Azor Ahai's cadre of naughty greenseers. She goes into the tree, then when AA weds the tree, he's wedding NN all over again. He's also being eaten or consumed by NN, as he pours out his blood to the tree to gain entrance. You may recall all the scenes of NN weirwood dryad women drinking the sacrificial blood of AA that I highlighted in Venus of the Woods. 

In this scenario, the child of AA and NN, usually referred to as AA reborn, would be the resurrected spirit that comes out of the wwnet. Thats how i see Arya, as a reborn spirit that comes from the tree, like a resurrected bit of NN. A vengeful nature spirit. This ghostly weirwood emanation is what is being shown To Us by the ghost of high heart, or by lady stoneheart, or even by Jaqen H'Ghar and Ghost the direwolf. Aria climbs up into the kingdom of the leaves at the Harrenhal godswood like one of the squirrel people, but also cruises around 'quiet as a shadow' while 'killing with a whisper' as she says "I am the ghost in Harrenhal."  

This vengeful tree ghost seems to be compared to a dark wind - a grey wind, a cloud of ash and smoke, etc. It's the same symbol as "smoke dark" Grey Wind and "smoke dark" Valyrian steel, or the shadowcats which are like "smoke and shadow." This vengeful ghost / dark wind thing can be seen as Nissa Nissa revenge and the moons revenge, because it is the smoke a s darkness that comes from the moon meteors ( pieces of dead moon) which throw up the smoke and ash that is responsible for killing the sun, or darkening the sun. Sun kills moon, moon gives birth to vengeful black meteors, black meteor children (or resurrected moon children you could say) take revenge on the sun and darken the world. 

Asha, another important moon maiden, pilots the ship "Black Wind," and that's the same thing, I think. It's also the same symbol as clouds of black ravens erupting from the weirwoods as they do on occassion. 

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In the same line of thinking that the Prince that was Promised and The Song of Ice and Fire are one in the same.  I do not have much to add right now except that a specific connection between the song of Amergin and the son(g) of ice and fire can be made given @Crowfood's Daughter discovery in part one of the myth of the Ironborn series.  The Grey King's ship was sunk by a magic storm made by Storm God and he washed up on the shore.  He could have used the song of Amergin, but didn't have it.  I believe that situation to be an exact parallel intentionally.  The Grey King is all about falling hard then coming back and kicking the storm's ass.  I am still nowhere near 100% certain on how he gets his revenge, but it clearly involves a child born.  Like everyone is pointing out, the female Stark kids are especially good representatives of the vengeful child/song with Sansa seemingly headed to avenge Ned by killing Littlefinger and Arya killing everyone.  The Prince that was promised is taken at swordpoint at the ToJ and when Viserys tries to cut another promised savior baby out when he is killed, just like the songs taken at swordpoint @ravenous reader pointed out.  The song of Amergin parted the storm and the child somehow avenges their parents against the stormy brother.  The child is like the secret song of Amergin/sonic weapon used to defeat the storm god who becomes the Sidhe/Others. 

 

I think that the Horn of Winter bringing down the wall is exactly the same thing.  I am of the belief that turtles = Old Man of the River = The Grey King brother like I believe crowfood also has been saying.  The wildlings make a turtle to shield themselves from the NW raining down death on them from the top of the Wall like a storm god would do from the sky.  The secret weapon they need to win defeat the Watch is the Horn of Winter.  Maybe everyone is right about Sam having the Horn of Winter, but incorrect about it being that broken horn.  It is actually Mance's son.            

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Posted (edited)

On 7/9/2017 at 0:50 PM, LmL said:

Hey yall, cool to see all the wind talk here (pun intended)

Are you suggesting that my words are wind..?   :lol:

Hey there dragon -- we've missed you!  :)

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. @Unchained I enjoyed your comments especially, the ones that @ravenous reader quoted above. So, in my study of Nissa Nissa as a tree spirit and elf woman (basically a weirwood dryad), I have come across the suggestion that the ghostly wind coming from the weirwoods is essentially the ghost of Nissa Nissa. It relates to the idea if Arya being herself a song sung by the weirwoods (as suggested by her name).

Love the Arya/aria as a 'weirwood song' (it's a bit more lyrical, though no less profound than a 'weirwood bark'), and you know I endorse the idea of a person being a song, in general.  @Unchained also suggested a further example with the idea of Mance's son 'Aemon steelsong' being the true horn of winter!

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A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV

"Maester is not a name. You could call him Aemon, though."

Gilly thought about that. "Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name. Aemon Battleborn. Aemon Steelsong."

The Nissa Nissa weirwood ghost ties in with @Voice's idea that the mysterious telepathic communication -- another song of sorts -- that only Jon could hear (as if the signal were 'tuned to his peculiar frequency' in line with the principle of resonance) prompting him halfway across the bridge (=symbolically the weir) to turn back for Ghost, was sent by Lyanna operating from beyond the grave somehow via the weirnet.  Why would Lyanna be a vengeful revenant?

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Essentially, what I am seeing is Nissa Nissa being sacrificed first, as a way of opening up the wwnet to Azor Ahai's cadre of naughty greenseers. She goes into the tree, then when AA weds the tree, he's wedding NN all over again. He's also being eaten or consumed by NN, as he pours out his blood to the tree to gain entrance. You may recall all the scenes of NN weirwood dryad women drinking the sacrificial blood of AA that I highlighted in Venus of the Woods. 

In this scenario, the child of AA and NN, usually referred to as AA reborn, would be the resurrected spirit that comes out of the wwnet. Thats how i see Arya, as a reborn spirit that comes from the tree, like a resurrected bit of NN. A vengeful nature spirit. This ghostly weirwood emanation is what is being shown To Us by the ghost of high heart, or by lady stoneheart, or even by Jaqen H'Ghar and Ghost the direwolf. Aria climbs up into the kingdom of the leaves at the Harrenhal godswood like one of the squirrel people, but also cruises around 'quiet as a shadow' while 'killing with a whisper' as she says "I am the ghost in Harrenhal."  

To continue the windy metaphors, there might also be wordplay on 'ghosts' with 'gusts.'  

If the vengeful ghost is the spirit of NN, what does that make the Others... (her army, her children, analogous to Dany 'Mhysa' and her Unsullied cohort) ? 

In critical passages I am yet to elucidate, it's notable that the wind stops suddenly once the Others appear, although it had been blowing forcefully just before.  Why?  Maybe the wind heralds the advance of the Others but then stops when they materialize?

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A Game of Thrones - Prologue

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss. "Come no farther," the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy's. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold.

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

 

Another reason I believe GRRM is keen to emphasize that the wind can be controlled by supernatural forces is by how he sometimes highlights the contrast of the prevailing weather conditions exterior to the tree which are 'windless', while at the same time suggesting that the tree itself is generating a wind via some internal mechanism.  The best examples of this phenomenon are firstly, when Bran sees the reflection of the weirwood shimmer and dance in the black pool, despite there being no wind (Osha emerging from the pool would be the equivalent of the ghostly Nissa Nissa emanation, I suppose); and secondly, when Bran is responsible for creating the wind that moves the leaves, rustling Theon's name on a windless night.  The sound associated with the visible motion of the leaves, as confirmed by Theon in TWOW, indicates the telekinetic dimension of the magical communication.

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A Clash of Kings - Bran II

No sooner had Hodor entered the godswood than Summer emerged from under an oak, almost as if he had known they were coming. Bran glimpsed a lean black shape watching from the undergrowth as well. "Shaggy," he called. "Here, Shaggydog. To me." But Rickon's wolf vanished as swiftly as he'd appeared.

Hodor knew Bran's favorite place, so he took him to the edge of the pool beneath the great spread of the heart tree, where Lord Eddard used to kneel to pray. Ripples were running across the surface of the water when they arrived, making the reflection of the weirwood shimmer and dance. There was no wind, though. For an instant Bran was baffled.

And then Osha exploded up out of the pool with a great splash, so sudden that even Summer leapt back, snarling. Hodor jumped away, wailing "Hodor, Hodor" in dismay until Bran patted his shoulder to soothe his fears. "How can you swim in there?" he asked Osha. "Isn't it cold?"

 

 

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A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell

And in the heart of the wood the weirwood waited with its knowing red eyes. Theon stopped by the edge of the pool and bowed his head before its carved red face. Even here he could hear the drumming, boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM boom DOOM. Like distant thunder, the sound seemed to come from everywhere at once.

The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon."

The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, that's all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son … a son of Pyke, of the islands."

 

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This vengeful tree ghost seems to be compared to a dark wind - a grey wind, a cloud of ash and smoke, etc. It's the same symbol as "smoke dark" Grey Wind and "smoke dark" Valyrian steel, or the shadowcats which are like "smoke and shadow." This vengeful ghost / dark wind thing can be seen as Nissa Nissa revenge and the moons revenge, because it is the smoke a s darkness that comes from the moon meteors ( pieces of dead moon) which throw up the smoke and ash that is responsible for killing the sun, or darkening the sun. Sun kills moon, moon gives birth to vengeful black meteors, black meteor children (or resurrected moon children you could say) take revenge on the sun and darken the world. 

Asha, another important moon maiden, pilots the ship "Black Wind," and that's the same thing, I think. It's also the same symbol as clouds of black ravens erupting from the weirwoods as they do on occassion. 

That 'shadowcat' metaphor is great.  The description of the amorphous 'shadow flowing down the mountain like liquid smoke' is the epitome of a deadly wind:

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Once he had watched a shadowcat stalk a ram, flowing down the mountainside like liquid smoke until it was ready to pounce.  (ACOK -- Jon VI)

I like this quote in which Tyrion refers to having to learn how to 'saddle shadowcats' when their regular mounts die, which seems to be a greenseer allusion to harnessing or riding the winds!

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A Game of Thrones - Tyrion VI

"You think to outlive me, dwarf?" The sellsword grinned. He had a dark gap in his smile where the edge of Ser Vardis Egen's shield had cracked a tooth in half.

Tyrion shrugged. "Riding hard and fast by night is a sure way to tumble down a mountain and crack your skull. I prefer to make my crossing slow and easy. I know you love the taste of horse, Bronn, but if our mounts die under us this time, we'll be trying to saddle shadowcats … and if truth be told, I think the clans will find us no matter what we do. Their eyes are all around us." He swept a gloved hand over the high, wind-carved crags that surrounded them.

Bronn grimaced. "Then we're dead men, Lannister."

 

 

20 hours ago, Unchained said:

In the same line of thinking that the Prince that was Promised and The Song of Ice and Fire are one in the same.  I do not have much to add right now except that a specific connection between the song of Amergin and the son(g) of ice and fire can be made given @Crowfood's Daughter discovery in part one of the myth of the Ironborn series.  The Grey King's ship was sunk by a magic storm made by Storm God and he washed up on the shore.  He could have used the song of Amergin, but didn't have it.  I believe that situation to be an exact parallel intentionally.  The Grey King is all about falling hard then coming back and kicking the storm's ass. 

Regarding the 'magic storm' used as a weapon, have you seen this interesting account along the same lines by  @40 Thousand Skeletons  where he quotes from GRRM's first published work, the short story 'The Hero,' in which there is a definite suggestion of a wind weapon called a 'howler' which is additionally a 'sonic weapon'!

 

On 5/23/2017 at 10:37 AM, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

 

An Argument For Weather Control

Now, controlling the weather is way less important, especially if you can travel through time and know exactly what the weather in the future is going to be, but this power would certainly help a lot. I do think based on the small amount of evidence we have, it is likely the Old Gods have this power. First off, there is this line from TWOIAF about the Isle of Faces:

Whether the green men still survive on their isle is not clear although there is the occasional account of some foolhardy young riverlord taking a boat to the isle and catching sight of them before winds rise up or a flock of ravens drives him away.

So there are 2 reasons mentioned for boats not being able to make it to the Isle of Faces: winds and ravens. If the Old Gods or green men are controlling the ravens, they are probably controlling those winds too. And if they can really do things like call down the Hammer of the Waters or cause earthquakes, controlling the winds and potentially other forms of weather seems like a reasonable power to have. Secondly, we have this significant dialogue between Osha and Bran:

“No, stay,” Bran commanded her. “Tell me what you meant, about hearing the gods.”

Osha studied him. “You asked them and they’re answering. Open your ears, listen, you’ll hear.”

Bran listened. “It’s only the wind,” he said after a moment, uncertain. “The leaves are rustling.”

“Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods?” She seated herself across the pool from him, clinking faintly as she moved. Mikken had fixed iron manacles to her ankles, with a heavy chain between them; she could walk, so long as she kept her strides small, but there was no way for her to run, or climb, or mount a horse. “They see you, boy. They hear you talking. That rustling, that’s them talking back.”

Oddly enough, we get confirmation that Osha is basically correct about all this when Bran enters the weirnet in ADWD. But if the Old Gods can send enough wind to rustle the leaves, who’s to say they can’t do more than that? In fact, Osha’s comment implies that the Old Gods are responsible for all wind generally. She didn’t say “Who do you think sent the wind”, she said “Who do you think sends the wind”, meaning all the time. Now I don’t know if the wind on Planetos is a mixture of “natural” wind and wind “sent by the gods”, but Osha was right about everything else she said there. Obviously different mythologies often use gods to explain events in nature, and the mythologies in ASOIAF are no different. We have the legend of Durran Godsgrief and the construction of Storm’s End, the Ironborn worship the Drowned God but fear the Storm God, and even Melisandre thinks that burning people alive can convince the Red God to give them favorable winds.

Lastly, using weather control as a weapon was a concept introduced on the first page of the first story GRRM ever published, The Hero. The story opens up with the protagonist describing a military assault on a less advanced civilization. This is the beginning of The Hero:

The city was dead and the flames of its passing spread a red stain across the green-gray sky.

It has been a long time dying. Resistance had lasted almost a week and the fighting had been bitter for a while. But in the end the invaders had broken the defenders, as they had broken so many others in the past. The alien sky with its double sun did not bother them. They had fought and won under skies of azure blue and speckled gold and inky black.

The Weather Control boys had hit first, while the main force was still hundreds of miles to the east. Storm after storm had flailed at the streets of the city, to slow defensive preparations and smash the spirit of resistance.

When they were closer the invaders had sent up howlers. Unending high-pitched shrieks had echoed back and forth day and night and before long most of the populace had fled in demoralized panic. By then the attackers’ main force was in range and launched plague bombs on a steady westward wind.

 

 

 

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I am still nowhere near 100% certain on how he gets his revenge, but it clearly involves a child born.  Like everyone is pointing out, the female Stark kids are especially good representatives of the vengeful child/song with Sansa seemingly headed to avenge Ned by killing Littlefinger and Arya killing everyone.  The Prince that was promised is taken at swordpoint at the ToJ and when Viserys tries to cut another promised savior baby out when he is killed, just like the songs taken at swordpoint @ravenous reader pointed out.  The song of Amergin parted the storm and the child somehow avenges their parents against the stormy brother.  The child is like the secret song of Amergin/sonic weapon used to defeat the storm god who becomes the Sidhe/Others. 

 

I think that the Horn of Winter bringing down the wall is exactly the same thing.  I am of the belief that turtles = Old Man of the River = The Grey King brother like I believe crowfood also has been saying.  The wildlings make a turtle to shield themselves from the NW raining down death on them from the top of the Wall like a storm god would do from the sky.  The secret weapon they need to win defeat the Watch is the Horn of Winter.  Maybe everyone is right about Sam having the Horn of Winter, but incorrect about it being that broken horn.  It is actually Mance's son.            

I love this idea -- and his name Aemon Steel-song is just perfect.  Employing the pun on 'steel' with 'steal,' together with his birth amidst the battle, he's also another song 'stolen at swordpoint'!

Edited by ravenous reader

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I have not read most of this thread, but since @ravenous reader brought up my argument for the weirnet having weather control, let me throw in my 2 cents regarding the prologue and the supernatural cold.

First off, the prologue takes place after Will goes scouting ahead and finds the group of wildlings dead. Since there was no blood, the wildlings (who were described as having "fallen" over in place) likely died from a sudden, supernatural, drastic decrease in temperature. Now, I have argued that it may be the weirnet alone that has the power to control weather, but it seems likely that the White Walkers have this power as well. And it also seems likely that the WWs are responsible for killing this group of wildlings. But if that is the case, then the wildlings must have been killed the night before and effectively left out as bait for the NW, because the WWs do not come above ground during the day.

Then we have the fight between the WW and Ser Waymar. The fight takes place shortly after dark, so the WWs must have a cave nearby. Leading up to the fight, Will described a wind that "cut right through him" as he climbed the sentinel tree. A minute later, Waymar asks, "Why is it so cold?" and Will thinks to himself, "It was cold."

Then by the time the fight starts, Will noted, "The wind had stopped. It was very cold."

So basically, it seems that the WWs can telekinetically move pockets of cold air to travel alongside them when they venture outside their caves. Additionally, it may be the case that the WWs are utilizing the cave network of the COTF to suck frigid air directly from the far north and rapidly transport it south through the underground tunnels.

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