kairparavel Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Harper's only going to miss 27 innings. The 'tradition' of throwing at batters doesn't make it correct, but simply long-standing. Traditions change. This one needs to as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, kairparavel said: Harper's only going to miss 27 innings. The 'tradition' of throwing at batters doesn't make it correct, but simply long-standing. Traditions change. This one needs to as well. And this isn't all on the pitchers. There are batters who crowd the plate way past the point of reasonability. The plate is the pitcher's and they have every right to let the batters know this, in a non-verbal fashion when necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Astros just swept the Twins in a 3 game set and scored 40 runs doing it. They are pretty scary right now. Springer hit a 473 foot bomb before too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said: Astros just swept the Twins in a 3 game set and scored 40 runs doing it. They are pretty scary right now. Springer hit a 473 foot bomb before too. #Ladyscary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, kairparavel said: Harper's only going to miss 27 innings. The 'tradition' of throwing at batters doesn't make it correct, but simply long-standing. Traditions change. This one needs to as well. To be clear, I'm not arguing in favor of throwing at people (but to be honest, as long as they're not going headhunting I don't think it deserves all this moral outrage). What I'm saying is that it's not feasible to start dropping huge suspensions on guys for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 13 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: #Ladyscary? https://imageshack.us/i/pnrcvrITj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Myshkin said: But to give it a little more contex; Harper will be missing 36 innings out of the 1400+ he's scheduled to play, while Strickland will miss 4-6 innings out of the 60-70 innings he might have pitched this year. Also, I'm not really saying he got off light in comparison to Strickland; I'm saying he got off light in comparison to how this would have been handled if he wasn't Bryce Harper and his opponent wasn't some scrub who no one cares about. If he'd been some replacement level player he'd have gotten 8 games for what he did. If he'd thrown his helmet at Clayton Kershaw he'd have also gotten 8 games. And like I said earlier, I'm not trying to hate on Bryce here, but I just don't like the idea of a class system when in comes to punishments in baseball. We saw it last year when Rougned Odor got 7 games and Jose Bautista only got 1 for the same fight. We're seeing it now with Strickland getting a longer suspension than guys usually get for throwing at a batter's head, and Harper getting a shorter suspension than guys usually get for charging the mound without the added infraction of throwing the helmet. And at the end of the day, whether or not we think pitchers should get stiffer suspensions for throwing at guys is an entirely different issue from whether or not Bryce got off light. Even in a world where Strickland gets banned for 20 games, a 4 game suspension for Harper still smacks of the league protecting a superstar. Fair enough, with one exception. There will always be class systems in every sport. 1 hour ago, Myshkin said: Incidentally, this is one of the big reasons why it would be a very bad idea to start handing out huge punishments to pitchers while relying on the league to make a judgement call about intent. With a 20 or 30 game suspension on the line the league will undoubtedly find that Clayton Kershaw, Max Scherzer, Chris Sale, and David Price have never in their lives ever even considered throwing at someone intentionally. No way no how, those guys are saints. But that kid who just got called up from AAA last week? Yeah hit him with the hammer. It's always possible that MLB will look the other way for the stars at the beginning of the new hypothetical system, but that wouldn't be sustainable. Pressure would start to build if a few guys keep getting away with hitting batters while everyone else is getting long bans. Regardless, I fully believe that dramatically increasing the punishments for intentional hits would lead to a dramatic drop in batters being hit in general, intentional or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 49 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said: https://imageshack.us/i/pnrcvrITj HOLY SHIT! Those are #Ladyterrifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Fair enough, with one exception. There will always be class systems in every sport. It's always possible that MLB will look the other way for the stars at the beginning of the new hypothetical system, but that wouldn't be sustainable. Pressure would start to build if a few guys keep getting away with hitting batters while everyone else is getting long bans. Regardless, I fully believe that dramatically increasing the punishments for intentional hits would lead to a dramatic drop in batters being hit in general, intentional or not. But then we get back to how exactly they would go about proving intent. We've all seen guys get tossed for losing the grip on a curveball, and we've all seen guys get away with going headhunting. Relying on some league official to determine intent is just not gonna cut it when so much time and money is on the line. And meanwhile, while everyone's talking about how Strickland should be sitting 20+ games, Harper's already short suspension gets cut shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Ramsay B. said: https://imageshack.us/i/pnrcvrITj 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: HOLY SHIT! Those are #Ladyterrifying And this is for my great pal Myshkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 RE: Intentional HBP Quote Rule 8.02(a) governs intentionally modifying the ball to gain an advantage. The mandatory penalty for doing so? Automatic ejection from the game and a 10-game suspension. Rule 8.02(d) governs intentionally throwing at a batter, but there’s no penalty specified. The only comment in this section of note is that throwing at a batter’s head is “condemned by everybody.” Quote The sentiment of “don’t hit people in the head” is a nice one, though it’s rather limited. Aside from the nebulous punishment associated with headhunting, pitchers trying to hit a batter don’t have very good aim. Pitchers train to throw at or around the strike zone, so preparing to throw a ball at a batter is an unnatural motion and has a wide variety of outcomes. It’s why you see pitchers throw behind batters when trying to hit them—they’re used to throwing strikes, not hitting people. So it’s not unreasonable to think that a pitcher might intentionally throw at a less-critical body part, miss, and end up hitting the head by mistake. It’s why Jim Bouton wrote in 1970’s Ball Four that he wouldn’t throw at a batter—there was too much risk involved. It’s why the pitcher and author Dirk Hayhurst, 40 years later, expressed the same sentiment. If you throw at a batter, there’s a very high risk of something terrible happening. Quote Take the 2013 National League Most Valuable Player Andrew McCutchen, who was intentionally hit in the back in 2014 and went on the disabled list soon thereafter with ongoing rib issues. Or last year’s MVP runner-up Giancarlo Stanton, who was unintentionally hit in the face by a pitch, breaking his jaw and causing him to miss most of September's games. A player, however talented, is still just a mortal, and when you hit him with a baseball, he’s liable to get injured. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/05/no-more-battering-the-batter/391991/ MC and I have discussed this topic several times over and I've expressed my opinion on it here a few times as well. I don't agree with it and think the practice needs to stop. MC feels otherwise. At any rate, I'm inclined to agree with this article about taking 'discretion' out of the equation and issuing automatic ejections and other set penalties. Every once in a while a misplaced pitch will get someone tossed but so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingintheNorth4 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The Cubs were swept in their series against the Padres. Today was a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pesci Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, kairparavel said: MC and I have discussed this topic several times over and I've expressed my opinion on it here a few times as well. I don't agree with it and think the practice needs to stop. MC feels otherwise. At any rate, I'm inclined to agree with this article about taking 'discretion' out of the equation and issuing automatic ejections and other set penalties. Every once in a while a misplaced pitch will get someone tossed but so be it. If they go the route of automatic ejections for hitting a batter, what's to stop having the whole lineup crowding the plate and increasing the likelihood of a HBP occurring and resulting in an ejection? Anthony Rizzo has been plunked 75 times since the 2014 season. Imagine a lineup of guys over the plate like him, and it becomes a disastrous pitching situation for the opposing team. Granted, that's a worst case scenario and probably a far fetched one, but the possibilities of wrecking a teams rotation and bullpen are realistic if automatic ejections for HBP become the norm. I could see Joe Maddon doing something like that with his lineup, and wouldn't blame him one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Automatic ejections for HBP's is a terrible ideal. Thats like a solution in search of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Tanaka was throwing bp again I see. I don't know what's wrong with him but I foresee a made up DL stint just so he can clear his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 15 hours ago, Myshkin said: But then we get back to how exactly they would go about proving intent. We've all seen guys get tossed for losing the grip on a curveball, and we've all seen guys get away with going headhunting. Relying on some league official to determine intent is just not gonna cut it when so much time and money is on the line. It really wouldn't be that hard to prove intent. Just look at the player's reaction after the throw, the player's history in general and the player's history with the batter he hit. You could tell in a split second that Strickland meant to hit Harper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I'd be fine with tossing pitchers for hitting a batter PROVIDED the rules were changed to disallow the wearing of absurd elbow pads and practically dangling it over the plate. I'd even go as far as having a certain line, imaginary or otherwise that a batter can't cross in the box on the pain of being ejected. Otherwise it would be unfair towards the pitchers to essentially take away the ability to pitch inside. edit: note that I am in no way in favor of automatic ejections for hitting a batter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: It really wouldn't be that hard to prove intent. Just look at the player's reaction after the throw, the player's history in general and the player's history with the batter he hit. You could tell in a split second that Strickland meant to hit Harper. You really think that's gonna cut it with 30 games on the line? And it's not like pitchers aren't smart enough to change the way they react when they find out that their reaction will be the determining factor between no punishment and a 30 game suspension. In fact, once 30 game suspensions start getting handed down based on nebulous evidence of intent, you're gonna start seeing a lot less guys getting hit in the wallet, and a lot more guys getting hit in the hands and wrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Just saw this cool little stat about Wainwright's hitting prowess of late. Last 85 plate appearances: Bryce Harper- 10 xbh 16 rbi Mike Trout- 13 xbh 18 rbi Adam Wainwright- 13 xbh 25 rbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Edinson Volquez throws no-no against D-backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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