Better Call Saul -- Season 3 Fring-ing The Gang Back Together Again

[Ramsay B.]

9 minutes ago, dooog said:

Another dull and dreary episode.

Hate to say it but i'm losing patience with this show.

Yeah, I just fought the urge to fast forward in a few spots this episode. All of this stuff could've easily been condensed to 2 seasons. 

And at this point I care more about Mike's storyline than Jimmy's and it's not even close. 

[Cas Stark]

They are definitely testing the patience of the audience with such a slow moving show....which is probably why it hasn't picked up much of an audience.....but I actually thought the last episode was pretty good....I think they have, I hope, everything set up for the final 'whatever' debacle is coming for everyone by season's end. 

I wasn't a huge fan of Mike going to the counseling sessions, that doesn't seem like something he would do, even for his daughter in law, very unMike like.

[The Anti-Targ]

20 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Jimmy is a piece of shit.

I think vindictive piece of shit is more accurate. Still, in the moment with shit piling on top of shit for him I can understand him going there, since all of the shit he's going through is Chuck's fault, from his perspective. And Chuck is a totally unsupportive arsehole with his fanatical devotion to the law, at the expense of his brother's attempt to lead a more straight life. So while what Jimmy did was shitty, I don't have much sympathy for Chuck.

It's funny that the show has re-confirmed that Chuck's electro-sensitivity is psychological, when just recently there's been a news story about a women  (in Australia I think?) who does appear to have non-psychological electro-sensitivity.

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I think vindictive piece of shit is more accurate. Still, in the moment with shit piling on top of shit for him I can understand him going there, since all of the shit he's going through is Chuck's fault, from his perspective. And Chuck is a totally unsupportive arsehole with his fanatical devotion to the law, at the expense of his brother's attempt to lead a more straight life. So while what Jimmy did was shitty, I don't have much sympathy for Chuck.

It's funny that the show has re-confirmed that Chuck's electro-sensitivity is psychological, when just recently there's been a news story about a women  (in Australia I think?) who does appear to have non-psychological electro-sensitivity.

It's not Chuck's fault though, it's Jimmy's fault.

Chuck refusing to grant Jimmy any promotions for years is Chuck's fault.  Chuck pretending to support Jimmy as a lawyer when he wanted him to fail is Chuck's fault, and all of this was before his mental illness set in.

But, let's not forget that what Jimmy did that started this chain reaction wasn't even about Chuck, but about Kim.  His forgery was designed to get Kim the account back, and Chuck being made a fool of was a secondary benefit.  What he did at the end of the episode was simple maliciousness for it's own sake, fuck you because I am fucked.

[Commodore]

20 hours ago, Nictarion said:

What do people think Mike wants from Nacho?

MIke called Nacho right after talking to the woman, so I figured maybe he wants to find out what happened to her husband. But I can't see how Nacho helps there.

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, Commodore said:

MIke called Nacho right after talking to the woman, so I figured maybe he wants to find out what happened to her husband. But I can't see how Nacho helps there.

Why would he think her husband was killed by the drug gang?  Did I miss something there?  

I would guess it's just going to be some Mike type of control freak condition to try and make sure it doesn't blow up in everyone's face.  Which of course it will.

[The Anti-Targ]

36 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's not Chuck's fault though, it's Jimmy's fault.

Chuck refusing to grant Jimmy any promotions for years is Chuck's fault.  Chuck pretending to support Jimmy as a lawyer when he wanted him to fail is Chuck's fault, and all of this was before his mental illness set in.

But, let's not forget that what Jimmy did that started this chain reaction wasn't even about Chuck, but about Kim.  His forgery was designed to get Kim the account back, and Chuck being made a fool of was a secondary benefit.  What he did at the end of the episode was simple maliciousness for it's own sake, fuck you because I am fucked.

Me:

Quote

since all of the shit he's going through is Chuck's fault, from his perspective.

Jimmy believes his action was poetically justified. And I can understand that perspective standing in Jimmy's shoes. It's also beyond dispute that Jimmy is where he is because of Chuck's determination to get Jimmy. So one big moral question is whether Chuck should have been satisfied with Jimmy's in-confidence confession and demanded some kind of recompense outside of the legal system? Or was Chuck morally right in seeking an indirect legal consequence for Jimmy's fraud? Arguably Chuck only pursued his course of action because of his ongoing belief that Jimmy should never have been a lawyer, never have been admitted to the bar. If Chuck had properly come to terms with Jimmy as a lawyer he may not have been so vehement in seeking Jimmy's total disbarment. Not to mention that Jimmy may have entered into a successful career as a lawyer with HHM and this whole sequence of events been completely avoided. So I don't credit Chuck as being a total innocent in this mess. His motivations in undermining Jimmy as a lawyer are pretty unconscionable for a brother.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Regarding Mike: I think he remembered the "Good Samaritan" that ended up being killed indirectly due to his actions, so he doesn't want that happening again.

[The Anti-Targ]

17 minutes ago, Commodore said:

MIke called Nacho right after talking to the woman, so I figured maybe he wants to find out what happened to her husband. But I can't see how Nacho helps there.

I'm not sure there will be a direct connection. Perhaps the story just plucked a sympathetic heart string. Hard to know though. Mike possibly thinks the woman's husband might have been mixed up in some shady shit and the "hikes" were just a ruse. But looking into that to find out if the husband was mixed up in shady shit is probably not a good idea.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Me:

Jimmy believes his action was poetically justified. And I can understand that perspective standing in Jimmy's shoes. It's also beyond dispute that Jimmy is where he is because of Chuck's determination to get Jimmy. So one big moral question is whether Chuck should have been satisfied with Jimmy's in-confidence confession and demanded some kind of recompense outside of the legal system? Or was Chuck morally right in seeking an indirect legal consequence for Jimmy's fraud? Arguably Chuck only pursued his course of action because of his ongoing belief that Jimmy should never have been a lawyer, never have been admitted to the bar. If Chuck had properly come to terms with Jimmy as a lawyer he may not have been so vehement in seeking Jimmy's total disbarment. Not to mention that Jimmy may have entered into a successful career as a lawyer with HHM and this whole sequence of events been completely avoided. So I don't credit Chuck as being a total innocent in this mess. His motivations in undermining Jimmy as a lawyer are pretty unconscionable for a brother.

Chuck is an asshole.  But, he's right about Jimmy.  I mean, he already had the job out from under Chuck's control, and he blew it off.  Then, Kim lost the account fair and square...and he couldn't stand that, so he committed several criminal acts to help her.  And of course we know what kind of "law" he ends up practicing.....suggesting that somebody shank Badger, that Jesse=Old Yeller.....and that is without the whole money laundering stuff.  

Chuck is an asshole who has been full of resentment for decades.  That doesn't change who Jimmy is, a con artist with an ever shifting set of morals.  The one doesn't wash out the other.

[The Anti-Targ]

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Chuck is an asshole.  But, he's right about Jimmy.  I mean, he already had the job out from under Chuck's control, and he blew it off.  Then, Kim lost the account fair and square...and he couldn't stand that, so he committed several criminal acts to help her.  And of course we know what kind of "law" he ends up practicing.....suggesting that somebody shank Badger, that Jesse=Old Yeller.....and that is without the whole money laundering stuff.  

Chuck is an asshole who has been full of resentment for decades.  That doesn't change who Jimmy is, a con artist with an ever shifting set of morals.  The one doesn't wash out the other.

A series of unfortunate events. The Jimmy/Saul of Breaking Bad may never have been if Chuck had taken a different approach and actually sought to mentor his little brother in the law. Jimmy and Chuck both feel wronged by the other and in resenting this and acting on the resentment by seeking payback we arrive at Breaking Bad.

Imagine if Chuck had let it go. Jimmy might have simply carried on successfully practising elder law and never entered the murky world of drug dealing. Could Chuck have foreseen the the path Jimmy ends up taking? I imagine he probably could, the broad strokes of it at least. Knowing Jimmy as someone who is pretty relaxed about staying on the right side of the law, pushing Jimmy away from the law was bound to lead him towards a more shady life on the wrong side of the law. So there's a direct line from Chuck's actions to Jimmy's ultimate end, which was not inevitable and could have been significantly influenced for the better by Chuck making different choices. Leopards don't change their spots, but they can be trained.

Jimmy is totally responsible for his own choices, but nobody's major life choices are without influence, positively or negatively by those who are closest to them. I suspect Chuck will never acknowledge the part his choices played in Jimmy's life. Would be rather tragically poignant if in the end Chuck has regret for the things he did to undermine Jimmy, but that things are too far gone for Chuck to do anything about it.

Also, where do the Cinabon scenes fit in the timeline, are they pre- or post-Breaking Bad? I've never watched Breaking Bad and I don't plan to (no time, as all TV watching hours are fully allocated for the forseeable future).

[RumHam]

15 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Also, where do the Cinabon scenes fit in the timeline, are they pre- or post-Breaking Bad? I've never watched Breaking Bad and I don't plan to (no time, as all TV watching hours are fully allocated for the forseeable future).

Post.

[Cas Stark]

18 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

A series of unfortunate events. The Jimmy/Saul of Breaking Bad may never have been if Chuck had taken a different approach and actually sought to mentor his little brother in the law. Jimmy and Chuck both feel wronged by the other and in resenting this and acting on the resentment by seeking payback we arrive at Breaking Bad.

Imagine if Chuck had let it go. Jimmy might have simply carried on successfully practising elder law and never entered the murky world of drug dealing. Could Chuck have foreseen the the path Jimmy ends up taking? I imagine he probably could, the broad strokes of it at least. Knowing Jimmy as someone who is pretty relaxed about staying on the right side of the law, pushing Jimmy away from the law was bound to lead him towards a more shady life on the wrong side of the law. So there's a direct line from Chuck's actions to Jimmy's ultimate end, which was not inevitable and could have been significantly influenced for the better by Chuck making different choices. Leopards don't change their spots, but they can be trained.

Jimmy is totally responsible for his own choices, but nobody's major life choices are without influence, positively or negatively by those who are closest to them. I suspect Chuck will never acknowledge the part his choices played in Jimmy's life. Would be rather tragically poignant if in the end Chuck has regret for the things he did to undermine Jimmy, but that things are too far gone for Chuck to do anything about it.

Also, where do the Cinabon scenes fit in the timeline, are they pre- or post-Breaking Bad? I've never watched Breaking Bad and I don't plan to (no time, as all TV watching hours are fully allocated for the forseeable future).

Oh you should watch Breaking Bad!  It is well worth bumping pretty much anything else. 

Cinnebon is post BB.  "Saul" cashed out to get a fake identity after everything went south with Walt.

[The Anti-Targ]

15 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Oh you should watch Breaking Bad!  It is well worth bumping pretty much anything else. 

Cinnebon is post BB.  "Saul" cashed out to get a fake identity after everything went south with Walt.

Maybe I will be motivated after BCS gets to that point.

[Nictarion]

44 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Also, where do the Cinabon scenes fit in the timeline, are they pre- or post-Breaking Bad? I've never watched Breaking Bad and I don't plan to (no time, as all TV watching hours are fully allocated for the forseeable future).

It's after Breaking Bad. 

Also, you should make time. I guarantee most of what you're currently watching isn't as good.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

It's after Breaking Bad. 

Also, you should make time. I guarantee most of what you're currently watching isn't as good.

I'm sure it is certainly better than Supergirl and Flash. But those are only a 2 hours a week time investment. BB will be binge material and I just can't do that. The only bingeing I do now is the new season Netflix shows, and as they are only one season, normally of 10 episodes, the binge is short lived and manageable. 

[Cas Stark]

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I'm sure it is certainly better than Supergirl and Flash. But those are only a 2 hours a week time investment. BB will be binge material and I just can't do that. The only bingeing I do now is the new season Netflix shows, and as they are only one season, normally of 10 episodes, the binge is short lived and manageable. 

You can binge one season at a time:) And bonus, the first season is only 7 eps!  It's totally worth it.  

[The Mance]

8 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 It's totally worth it.

I'm actually a little jealous of tAT for not having watched BB yet, and recommend putting it off for as long as the pacing of BBS allows.  That is, keep up with BBS until the story catches up with the beginning of BB, at least, and then find time to watch BB as the sequel to BBS.

[dbunting]

I must have missed something since no one else asked about it, where did Mike get that bag full of cash? Is this the money that his son was arrested/killed for?

1 hour ago, The Mance said:

I'm actually a little jealous of tAT for not having watched BB yet, and recommend putting it off for as long as the pacing of BBS allows.  That is, keep up with BBS until the story catches up with the beginning of BB, at least, and then find time to watch BB as the sequel to BBS.

I agree on this point. If you haven't seen BB yet, go ahead and ride this out and then watch it. BB is leaps and bounds better than BCS.

 

For me this will just now get to the "fun" stuff, no more Jimmy and here comes Saul. We have seen the deterioration of Jimmy and Kim is really starting to see it. Saul will be pulling his hotel bar scams soon to pay his share of the rent and by seasons end Kim will either lose Mesa Verde because of him or decide to just leave because she is seeing who Jimmy truly is.

[Alarich II]

My guess is that Jimmy draws Kim into one of his bar scams, this leads to her losing Mesa Verde and/or her professional license. She leaves Jimmy, he becomes Saul Goodman. I admit I was kind of dreading and hoping it would happen when he detailed his plan to her.