SpaceChampion

Better Call Saul -- Season 3 Fring-ing The Gang Back Together Again

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I love how dedicated the Vet is to his job. :lol:

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I think my favorite bit was the look on Howard's face when Kim asked him who the other Hamlin was at Hamlin, Nepotism & McGill.

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I'm over Kim, I've lost all sympathy for her, I am now actively rooting for her career to end.  Jimmy belongs at the Cinnebun.  

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12 hours ago, Commodore said:

Hamlin is my favorite, he just wants no drama and everyone keeps fucking it up for him

Yeah, Howard's been great. 

I liked the episode, but I'm not sure the outburst was necessarily the nail in the coffin. 

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Posted (edited)

what's tragic is the facts are all on Chuck's side, but his motives and state of mind outweigh that

Edited by Commodore

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Just now, Commodore said:

what's tragic is the facts are all on Chuck's side, but his motives and state of mind outweigh that

Do they?  Should they?  I'm always a little surprised how much hate Chuck gets when he is 100% right about his brother every time.   I found this episode really, really hard to watch because I could see that Chuck was going to end up exposed and shafted.  I'm not sure that is a good thing....Jimmy is a criminal who cuts corners, who lies, cheats, steals, whatever he feels like doing at the moment and then rationalizes it away as no big deal....and the vast majority of the audience seems to agree with this because he's likable and has on occasion good motives.  Chuck is a rigid hardass, so the fact that he is not a criminal and doesn't break the rules carries no weight with the audience.

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Do they?  Should they? 

They do as far as the outcome is concerned, but they shouldn't. 

fwiw I'm Team Chuck

Edited by Commodore

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Do they?  Should they?  I'm always a little surprised how much hate Chuck gets when he is 100% right about his brother every time.   I found this episode really, really hard to watch because I could see that Chuck was going to end up exposed and shafted.  I'm not sure that is a good thing....Jimmy is a criminal who cuts corners, who lies, cheats, steals, whatever he feels like doing at the moment and then rationalizes it away as no big deal....and the vast majority of the audience seems to agree with this because he's likable and has on occasion good motives.  Chuck is a rigid hardass, so the fact that he is not a criminal and doesn't break the rules carries no weight with the audience.

The issue is that Chuck is an asshole and Jimmy is naturally likable, as are most con men.  

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2 minutes ago, briantw said:

The issue is that Chuck is an asshole and Jimmy is naturally likable, as are most con men.  

Yes, but we, the audience know that Jimmy is a criminal who cuts corner, we can see he is likable, but we can also see that he is a criminal who can't be trusted....so "we" the audience always taking sides against Chuck...it strikes me as strange.  

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

Yes, but we, the audience know that Jimmy is a criminal who cuts corner, we can see he is likable, but we can also see that he is a criminal who can't be trusted....so "we" the audience always taking sides against Chuck...it strikes me as strange.  

Because we know Jimmy much better than Chuck, and while Jimmy is a con man who cuts corners, he's also ultimately not a bad guy.  He screwed over Chuck to help the girl he loves, and when Chuck was appearing to take it horribly, he told Chuck the truth to make him feel better even though he didn't have to.  What we see is Chuck going out of his way to destroy his brother, whereas Jimmy has gone out of his way numerous times to help Chuck.  So naturally we're going to be more inclined to like Jimmy, even if he's sometimes in the wrong.

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8 minutes ago, briantw said:

Because we know Jimmy much better than Chuck, and while Jimmy is a con man who cuts corners, he's also ultimately not a bad guy.  He screwed over Chuck to help the girl he loves, and when Chuck was appearing to take it horribly, he told Chuck the truth to make him feel better even though he didn't have to.  What we see is Chuck going out of his way to destroy his brother, whereas Jimmy has gone out of his way numerous times to help Chuck.  So naturally we're going to be more inclined to like Jimmy, even if he's sometimes in the wrong.

He's not a good guy either.  It's just my personal take on it, I have a lot of sympathy for Chuck, and while he IS an asshole, I feel for him for a variety of reasons, not the least of which he acquired all of his status playing within the rules.......I found this episode very hard to watch, I am disappointed to see Kim start to go down Jimmy's road, but I understand that mine is a minority viewpoint.  

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I know this isn't what I should be focusing on, but did anyone else find it weird that a battery not plugged into anything was supposed to have triggered Chuck's condition? There would be no current flowing until the two leads were hooked up to something. 

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1 minute ago, RumHam said:

I know this isn't what I should be focusing on, but did anyone else find it weird that a battery not plugged into anything was supposed to have triggered Chuck's condition? There would be no current flowing until the two leads were hooked up to something. 

Idk maybe cause it's all in his head? There is not any logic in it. We have seen him discard (and play up) his illness throughout the show multiple times just to sabotage Jimmy.

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14 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Idk maybe cause it's all in his head? There is not any logic in it. We have seen him discard (and play up) his illness throughout the show multiple times just to sabotage Jimmy.

Don't we already know for a fact that it's all in his head...I mean ever since the doctor turned on the stuff in his room and he didn't have any response because he didn't know it was on...it's all his perception.  

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13 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Don't we already know for a fact that it's all in his head...I mean ever since the doctor turned on the stuff in his room and he didn't have any response because he didn't know it was on...it's all his perception.  

We know that, but most people in the show did not, and exposing him as having a mental disorder was essentially the only way for Jimmy to save himself.  And it's hard to blame him, either, as he'd helped his brother so much and yet Chuck still continued going out of his way to destroy him.

I'm not saying Jimmy was in the right here, but you have to consider how he was always by his brother's side and helping him through his mental illness and keeping him safe when he went to the hospital, but all Chuck ever wanted was for Jimmy to fail despite all that.

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Very entertaining episode. Felt good to get back to meat of the story after all the business with Gus and Mike (however entertaining that is). 

I'm curious though... Why would they not disbar Jimmy after this episode? Sure Chuck was proven to be delusional, and that might explain why Jimmy said the stuff on the tape... But Jimmy still broke into Chuck's home and broke his property. That remains a crime, no matter the context. How will they justify that?

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1 minute ago, briantw said:

We know that, but most people in the show did not, and exposing him as having a mental disorder was essentially the only way for Jimmy to save himself.  And it's hard to blame him, either, as he'd helped his brother so much and yet Chuck still continued going out of his way to destroy him.

I'm not saying Jimmy was in the right here, but you have to consider how he was always by his brother's side and helping him through his mental illness and keeping him safe when he went to the hospital, but all Chuck ever wanted was for Jimmy to fail despite all that.

Ya think?  I've always assumed that everyone, including everyone at HHM knows that Chuck's condition is mental, but because he is such a great lawyer, and going way back to season 1, if he cashed out in retirement they would have to basically sell the firm for the payoff, that Howard and everyone else has been humoring him.  

The levels and depths of the brother's relationship is brilliant because there is not really a good guy or a bad guy, they are both good and bad.  Chuck has protected and supported Jimmy, getting him out of jail, giving him the job...all the while secretly wanting him to fail because he feels he doesn't deserve to be a lawyer.  Jimmy is a fuck up criminal and yet he has always wanted Chuck's approval....it's so so tragic.

I just personally react to all the woohoo, Chuck gets his comeuppance, yeehaw attitude, since I feel terribly sorry for him.  He's always been the strong one, the one who sorted out his father's financial mess, the one who kept Jimmy out of jail, the one who made a stellar career....but it's Jimmy who people want to hang with, and save and help.  Also, he is mentally disturbed despite his IQ and legal acumen.  

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Ya think?  I've always assumed that everyone, including everyone at HHM knows that Chuck's condition is mental, but because he is such a great lawyer, and going way back to season 1, if he cashed out in retirement they would have to basically sell the firm for the payoff, that Howard and everyone else has been humoring him.  

I think people close to Chuck knew, obviously, including Howard, but the majority of the people in the courtroom had never heard of Chuck's condition, nor likely knew he had one at all.  He hid it from his ex-wife, after all.  He also talked a pretty good game and explained away how it wasn't currently recognized as a legitimate illness.

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Just now, briantw said:

I think people close to Chuck knew, obviously, including Howard, but the majority of the people in the courtroom had never heard of Chuck's condition, nor likely knew he had one at all.  He hid it from his ex-wife, after all.  He also talked a pretty good game and explained away how it wasn't currently recognized as a legitimate illness.

He did talk a good game.  But you would have to assume that even in his heart Chuck knows it's not 'real' or else why go to those insane lengths to hide it from his ex wife?  Why not bring out those research papers to 'prove' your condition is real but not recognized? 

I agree that the majority on the bar committee probably knew nothing but that maybe Chuck had some health issues and hence was semi retired, not any specifics.

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19 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

I'm curious though... Why would they not disbar Jimmy after this episode? Sure Chuck was proven to be delusional, and that might explain why Jimmy said the stuff on the tape... But Jimmy still broke into Chuck's home and broke his property. That remains a crime, no matter the context. How will they justify that?

From my understanding, disbarment is quite rare. I've read of several real life cases where lawyers have been found/plead guilty to felony charges and only received a suspension or deferred suspension from the disciplinary panel.

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