AncalagonTheBlack

Red Sister by Mark Lawrence

172 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I recommend Rob J. Hayes "The Ties That Bind" and its sequels for boy's fiction along the Abercombie level. It has one female lead out of three and she's a character who I suspect you'll find very un-girlpowery. Still, I very much recommend them as novels of blood, sex, and gore with actual decent plots as well as characterization.

Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be a kindle edition of these books yet but i'll add them to the list.

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1 hour ago, Sheep the Evicted said:

 

This is my issue though. On all the fantasy forums i have come across this stuff seems to be all thats being talked about. Where do I find good traditional stuff ? You don't see Mens Rights activists swarming romance publishers for more accurate portrayals of men do you ?

I'd have to read a romance forum to know for sure whether there were people demanding male protagonists or more realistic depictions of men within that genre. Mens rights activists tend to focus on complaining about female leads in "their" books - they don't tend to give a shit about things they don't usually read or watch. See, Mad Max: Fury Road and Ghostbusters. I could be wrong as I haven't checked and I wouldn't want to assume that because I don't think so, that equates to "it must be so"

As for traditional stuff my impression was that's what the majority of fantasy fiction still is. Maybe its changed a lot since GOT hit TV and exploded that market even further in books but I that isn't my natural assumption.

It's also worth noting that talking about something a lot doesn't always translate to sales. Bakker would be swimming in a scrooge McDuck stash of gold if it were and Sanderson is rarely talked about but he has the sales.

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Well this topic exploded while I slept. Before I get into it I just want to get this off my chest:

Mens Rights Activists are scum and should be shot and dumped into a swamp.

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Mens Rights Activists are scum and should be shot and dumped into a swamp.

But what do you really think?

Did you notice one of them called Bakker's writing "misandrist" in the other AMA? That was a new one...

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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3 hours ago, Contrarius+ said:

That may be because men in romance novels are usually portrayed in extremely flattering terms already. ;-)

Seriously? I very rarely say this, but seriously, dude -- if you actually believe this, just go away. As someone else mentioned, Gor is probably the series for you.

Since when does most fantasy depict "otherwise normal" men, much less women?

He could also try Goodkind or Vox Day. Maybe some Ringo?

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40 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

But what do you really think?

Did you notice one of them called Bakker's writing "misandrist" in the other AMA? That was a new one...

Hahahah, hahah.

Oh my GOD.

I just literally sat here laughing my ASS off for a good 5 mins.

Truly the word has gone mad.

Also, where's Lyanna when we need her, she would love this.

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2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

He could also try Goodkind or Vox Day. Maybe some Ringo?

Hey -- for an author who's actually not terrible, maybe Charles Gannon. I've only read one of his books, but it was okay -- but with a very pronounced male gaze. SF, though, not fantasy.

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I am astonished, bewildered, terrified, disheartened. Might read Red Sister now though.

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35 minutes ago, Contrarius+ said:

Hey -- for an author who's actually not terrible, maybe Charles Gannon. I've only read one of his books, but it was okay -- but with a very pronounced male gaze. SF, though, not fantasy.

No, he doesn't have enough respect from me at this point for me to rec good things.

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Just bought this on Kindle. I'll read it after Expanse, unless I need a break in between. I don't care about the female characters, all of Lawrence's stuff has been good. If, it is a bit tedious the first book, I'd still give the second a go. To me, from reviews I've read, it seems to be more of a pure set-up book to the rest of the series, just my opinion. But, Red Sister, well, that just sounds badass.

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It's actually getting really good reviews on GR(which ok yeah its GR). I haven't seen any one complain about a female main character outside of this thread. I'd be reading it now but I Had nothing to read monday so I started Rendezvous with Rama finally after like 20 years and I never read more than one book and I never drop a book unless its complete shit.

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On 4/4/2017 at 2:13 AM, C.T. Phipps said:

Hogwarts School for Red Sonja.

 

 

welp, you just sold ME the book

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, Sheep the Evicted said:

But basically yes featuring women in central action roles of a heroic fantasy IS pandering. So in another wise gritty semi-realistic fantasy im just meant to quietly accept that an other wise normal woman is a champion deulist and reknowned killer ? Why ?

Yeah, because Jorg massacring an entire band of outlaws by himself, as a teenager, was soooo realistic. Ditto half the shit that Jorg does, now that I think of it. Ditto literally everything about William's character. Ditto Snorri for that matter.

Reading the rest of your post, I assume you're talking about Monza, and the question I'll put back to you is, why not? Does the fencing style of swordsmanship that the Union employs require some mass of upper body strength that I'm not aware of? Because the reaction to Gorst's style in the original trilogy seems to me to indicate that this style of dueling is traditionally more about speed and dexterity than raw physical power. Is Monza being a renowned killer any more unrealistic than half the shit that Logen does? The Feared broke people's shields by punching them, and we're supposed to believe Logen kills that thing just by flying into a berserker frenzy? Bull-shit.

Monza's martial abilities weren't even that exaggerated. She was more of a tactician and a leader than a fighter. The one straight up duel that we see her fight, she loses until Cosco comes in and helps her, IIRC.

I'll never understand how there is a specific subset of SFF fans that are okay with gods, aliens, demons, and magic, not to mention male fantasy heroes performing acts that are physically impossible, but throw a hissy fit every time a woman picks up a sword.

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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Posted (edited)

I write stuff with action girls all the time be they cowgirls with guns in Cthulhu Apocalypse or deranged Harley Quinn types or female Space Marines. But keeping this to Mark Lawrence: he's already written an underused but awesome Norse shamaness and a zombie necromancer sexpot who participate in his story's action beats.

In the case of the Red Sisters, the world they're in kind of reminds me of Warhammer 40K except Medieval. Which would be a funny joke (i.e. "Like Warhammer") if not for the fact its the Sisters of Battle which it reminds me of. I will say I appreciate the handling of combat for women in the book, though.

Which is to say it's nasty, brutal, and violent as it is for men. No hand-holding here which makes the sacrifices here feel stronger.

Oh and Rob J. Hayes books will be back up in Kindle in a month--they're down because of his termination with Ragnarok Publications. I recently terminated my contract with them too.

Edited by C.T. Phipps

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20 hours ago, red snow said:

.

 

1 hour ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Yeah, because Jorg massacring an entire band of outlaws by himself, as a teenager, was soooo realistic. Ditto half the shit that Jorg does, now that I think of it. Ditto literally everything about William's character. Ditto Snorri for that matter.

Reading the rest of your post, I assume you're talking about Monza, and the question I'll put back to you is, why not? Does the fencing style of swordsmanship that the Union employs require some mass of upper body strength that I'm not aware of? Because the reaction to Gorst's style in the original trilogy seems to me to indicate that this style of dueling is traditionally more about speed and dexterity than raw physical power. Is Monza being a renowned killer any more unrealistic than half the shit that Logen does? The Feared broke people's shields by punching them, and we're supposed to believe Logen kills that thing just by flying into a berserker frenzy? Bull-shit.

Monza's martial abilities weren't even that exaggerated. She was more of a tactician and a leader than a fighter. The one straight up duel that we see her fight, she loses until Cosco comes in and helps her, IIRC.

I'll never understand how there is a specific subset of SFF fans that are okay with gods, aliens, demons, and magic, not to mention male fantasy heroes performing acts that are physically impossible, but throw a hissy fit every time a woman picks up a sword.

That's correct.  Monza's fighting skills are considerable, but they aren't extraordinary.  Her real strength is as a commander and ruler.

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8 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

I'll never understand how there is a specific subset of SFF fans that are okay with gods, aliens, demons, and magic, not to mention male fantasy heroes performing acts that are physically impossible, but throw a hissy fit every time a woman picks up a sword.

So much this.

 

It's those girl cooties. They transcend all.

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It's like the people who complain about romance in any female written SFF but are perfectly ok with Rothfuss's 300 pages of ninja sex.

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36 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

It's like the people who complain about romance in any female written SFF but are perfectly ok with Rothfuss's 300 pages of ninja sex.

Well, that was just SEX, of course. The cooties only come into play where there's actual ROMANCE, doncha know.

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Posted (edited)

It's like Batman.

Most fans think if they had a billion dollars and a iron will to avoid being a playboy layabout, they could be Batman.

But girl heroes?

You can't project on them!

They're....weird....and mysterious!

So we must work against them being heroes because that shows dudes up!

Edited by C.T. Phipps

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