DunderMifflin Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 In school I knew a kid that lived on a dirt road driveway and he started driving to the bus stop at the end of his driveway when he was like 10. Not sure of the legal technicalities but no one ever said anything. He did it until he got his license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Fury Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 TLDR- thread wherein Dundermifflin doesn't understand what the word entitlement means and Scot, a lawyer, tries to explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 4, 2017 Author Share Posted April 4, 2017 35 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I don't believe so. I know a lot of folks who were raised rurally learn to drive at ages way younger than is legally allowed. Whether or not this is technically legal or not, I'm not sure, but it does occur with some frequency. The key is that there will be no enforcement of licensure provisions on Private Property. You can't have a Cop on your property to give you a ticket without a warrant for them to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Jeez Scot, you have some incredible patience. You won the thread in the opening post. You did a victory lap with Kalbear's post. If DM keeps posting that it's his opinion/feeling that he does have a right or entitlement to drive despite all objective evidence to the contrary, then what do you expect to accomplish here? He's going to claim some subjective, semantic interpretation of "right", or he's going to claim that his feeling/opinion supersedes the petty self-appointed tyranny of law. I have a very low success rate of persuading irrational people on the internet, through the power of my rhetoric and source citations, that they are wrong. I have a much higher success rate at spotting and ignoring irrational people. Keep fighting the good fight, but I hope you do it because you enjoy the fight. I think a more interesting discussion is what should we do about the absence of a right/ability to drive in a society that seems to be predicated on a presumed right/ability to drive? It's a problem that we blindly bring on ourselves, and then complain when the old, infirm or merely poor cannot participate fully in our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I am really hoping that between cheaper ridesharing and autonomous vehicles, the need to be able to drive or own a vehicle will largely be a thing of the past or a bizarre personal choice, like owning your own horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 5 hours ago, Kelli Fury said: Scot, a lawyer, How the f*** did I not realize that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 5 hours ago, Kelli Fury said: TLDR- thread wherein Dundermifflin doesn't understand what the word entitlement means and Scot, a lawyer, tries to explain Lawyers get dominion over what words mean in and out of law because............I'm not in france Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Just now, DunderMifflin said: Lawyers get dominion over what words mean in and out of law because............ They can actually read and understand things, and the law is kind of defined based on the actual meaning of words instead of 'whatever random asshat on the internet wants things to mean' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kalbear said: They can actually read and understand things, and the law is kind of defined based on the actual meaning of words instead of 'whatever random asshat on the internet wants things to mean' As opposed to people who are not lawyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: As opposed to people who are not lawyers? Evidence would suggest that, yes Also, they actually have to go to school and pass an exam that shows that they are specifically competent enough in the basics of law and process, and that certification can be revoked for failure to abide by it. In other words, practicing law is ALSO not a right, nor are you entitled to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Note: Pleading the 5th would be preferable to [continued] self incrimination. http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/davechappelle.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I am really hoping that between cheaper ridesharing and autonomous vehicles, the need to be able to drive or own a vehicle will largely be a thing of the past or a bizarre personal choice, like owning your own horse. I'd love for that to be the case. Maybe in much of the world it will be, but I have a feeling cars as personal freedom devices, status symbols, compensation engines etc. are too deeply ingrained in the 'Murican identity to go anywhere anytime soon here. Add to that the general fear of change and doing anything remotely positive for the environment this country still seems to suffer from. Plus the first thing to go once autonomous vehicles become properly viable are the teamster jobs. There'll be a good push against them over that alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Just now, KiDisaster said: I'd love for that to be the case. Maybe in much of the world it will be, but I have a feeling cars as personal freedom devices, status symbols, compensation engines etc. are too deeply ingrained in the 'Murican identity to go anywhere anytime soon here. Add to that the general fear of change and doing anything remotely positive for the environment this country still seems to suffer from. Plus the first thing to go once autonomous vehicles become properly viable are the teamster jobs. There'll be a good push against them over that alone. Really, the massive pressure that the insurance agency can bring to bear on both laws and on fees makes it almost inevitable once the kinks get worked out. There is a lot of fear of change, but there's also a lot of fear of, ya know, 500k people getting injured or dead each year. The liability for those who aren't part of the autonomous system is going to be absurdly high to the point where it becomes a status symbol to drive your own car regularly, and most people just don't care enough to make it that big a deal - or can't afford their own car, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Evidence would suggest that, yes ... Suddenly I feel qualified to get a law degree. But yeah, grab a dictionary Dundermuffin, legal or otherwise, and you will see the word right is in the definition of the word entitlement. Unless you use the definition that means special privilege I guess (because this is the 21st century when words mean both a thing and the opposite of that thing), but if you've been arguing this entire time that driving is a special privilege than I have no idea WTF is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 There is actually talk of light rail coming to Columbia SC. I'd be delighted if it showed up. On days where I don't have to travel out of town, I'd ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: There is actually talk of light rail coming to Columbia SC. I'd be delighted if it showed up. On days where I don't have to travel out of town, I'd ride. My suspicion is that as much as I like light rail systems and how they shape cities, the day of light rail is likely dead. The cities that have light rail will not replace it; they don't have the street infrastructure to do so. But those cities who are on the verge of it? probably not a good choice to go that route. And I'm saying this as someone who happily supports Seattle's light rail system. In 20 years time chances are very good that most urban transportation systems will look as foreign to us as horse parking does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Kalbear said: 15 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Evidence would suggest that, yes Also, they actually have to go to school and pass an exam that shows that they are specifically competent enough in the basics of law and process, and that certification can be revoked for failure to abide by it. In other words, practicing law is ALSO not a right, nor are you entitled to do it. That's great but I'm not going to concede my position to someone simply because they are a lawyer. Why should a lawyer get to decide? Why not an English professor? I'll ask you for some examples of things that you think are real entitlements. Or a you claiming the entire concept is false that there is no legit entitlement? No one is or should be entitled to anything unless specifically addressed by a law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 fuck yeah, scot! can we turn this conversation into how transportation access should be a right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I am really hoping that between cheaper ridesharing and autonomous vehicles, the need to be able to drive or own a vehicle will largely be a thing of the past or a bizarre personal choice, like owning your own horse. I share that hope but there will remain a substantial frictional cost & time for rural Americans especially, even with the robo-Uber of the near future. Of course, rural dwelling is already a bizarre personal choice with outsize costs subsidized by tax-payers, which is not mitigated at all by some owning their own horse. Reducing the problem is a positive at least, especially because we don't seem likely to reorganize our society for the old, infirm or poor, nor do they seem likely to change their expectations of life choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Really, the massive pressure that the insurance agency can bring to bear on both laws and on fees makes it almost inevitable once the kinks get worked out. There is a lot of fear of change, but there's also a lot of fear of, ya know, 500k people getting injured or dead each year. The liability for those who aren't part of the autonomous system is going to be absurdly high to the point where it becomes a status symbol to drive your own car regularly, and most people just don't care enough to make it that big a deal - or can't afford their own car, anyway. Insurance stuff is a good point, hadn't really considered that. I'm not sure about the fear of people getting hurt though. If that was really a motivating factor for the American voter I'd think we'd have done something about gun control by now. Personal freedoms trump other people's lives and safety here. Personally I can't wait for the day I can tell Google to take me home and just chill in the backseat and read or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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