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NFL Offseason: What's a Chris Collins Worth?


Manhole Eunuchsbane

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I remember a few years ago reading a story about a group of guys who had been to every draft in NYC and the extra benefits they got from the NFL.  I was wondering last night if that has carried over now that the draft has been moved to Chicago and Philly?

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1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

Supposedly they got two of the top three people on their board. Wow.

And oh Bears. They gave up all those picks to swap with San Francisco because they beat the Niners in a pointless-except-for-draft-position game in Week 13.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/28/bears-week-13-win-over-49ers-cost-them-three-picks/

Should have Tanked for Trubisky.

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Congrats Browns and 49ers fans. For the first time in ages, your teams proved they were competent! 

Bears fans, not so much.

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

 

Chicago, in reality gave up two 3rd round picks and a fourth round pick to get their franchise QB. If it works out it's a cheap price, I mean 90% of 3rd and 4th round picks don't pan out anyway. However, if it doesn't pan out, you are screwed. I have to believe they could have gotten him at #3 and kept their picks.

 

 

I'd rather have two third round picks to be honest.

Also, did you see his highlight reel? He was throwing deep passing 10 yards out of bounds left and right.

None of the QBs in this draft should have gone in the first round, and yet three went in the top 12.

DID CHRISTIAN PONDER TEACH YOU NOTHING?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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13 hours ago, briantw said:

Goodell isn't nearly as good at embracing the boos as David Stern was.  For years I thought his sole form of sustenance was fan vehemence. 

Gary Battman is the undefeated champion at soaking up fan anger.

 

9 hours ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

Also, Cleveland had 3 first round picks? wtf? Was gonna ask if that's ever happened before but they mentioned the '13 Vikings had 3 picks in first round.

Pretty sure the Jets have the record, they had 4 first round picks in the 2000 draft; #12, #13, #18, and #27.

And it worked out reasonably well for them too. Shaun Ellis and John Abraham were defensive stalwarts for over a decade (Abraham was traded away early on, but for the pick that became Nick Mangold). Chad Pennington was either the second or third best QB in the draft, and the two that were better (Brady, obviously; Marc Bulger, maybe) were players that everyone missed on. Only Anthony Becht was disappointing, but he wasn't a bust either.

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Just now, Tywin et al. said:

DID CHRISTIAN PONDER TEACH YOU NOTHING?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Apparently not... because just two years later, EJ Manuel happened.

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RE: Jabrill Peppers

As most know I'm a huge Oklahoma fan, and when Tony Jefferson was at OU from '10-'12, he played the same type of hybrid/safety role that Peppers did at Michigan. Scouts didn't know what to do with him, and he went undrafted (he also tested terribly), and he has turned into a very good safety, signing a big contract this offseason with the Ravens. I just see Peppers as a more talented version of Jefferson. I think the hype on him got a little out of control early on, which in turn has caused him to be underrated. Keep in mind that a great coach was using him in all kinds of roles. Harbaugh wouldn't be jumping through hoops for a guy who can't play, it's not like his coach was some of these hacks that run college programs.

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Congrats Browns and 49ers fans. For the first time in ages, your teams proved they were competent! 

Bears fans, not so much.

I'd rather have two third round picks to be honest.

Also, did you see his highlight reel? He was throwing deep passing 10 yards out of bounds left and right.

None of the QBs in this draft should have gone in the first round, and yet three went in the top 12.

DID CHRISTIAN PONDER TEACH YOU NOTHING?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Believe me, I have no faith in Trubisky and I am a Cowboys fan who could care less about Chicago, other than I hopefully get to laugh at my Bears fan brother. But are you saying that you wouldn't trade two 3rd rd and one 4th round pick for a franchise QB?  A franchise QB is worth a hundred times more than any 3rd 2nd or 1st rd pick. I am not saying he is, but they obviously believe that he is.

The real dilemma comes when they find out he isn't actually Mannings illegitimate love child! 

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10 hours ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

 

Also, Cleveland had 3 first round picks? wtf? Was gonna ask if that's ever happened before but they mentioned the '13 Vikings had 3 picks in first round.

Yup. 1 All-Pro, 1 injury bust and another bust that didn't make any sense. 

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17 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Believe me, I have no faith in Trubisky and I am a Cowboys fan who could care less about Chicago, other than I hopefully get to laugh at my Bears fan brother. But are you saying that you wouldn't trade two 3rd rd and one 4th round pick for a franchise QB?  A franchise QB is worth a hundred times more than any 3rd 2nd or 1st rd pick. I am not saying he is, but they obviously believe that he is.

The real dilemma comes when they find out he isn't actually Mannings illegitimate love child! 

I've said several times that unless there is an Andrew Luck or a Jameis Winston, I'd never trade up for a QB and would rather pick a guy in the third or fourth round every other year until I hit on one. 

 

Trubisky is a project, not a ready made hit. I would trade nothing to get him. 

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Sorry I missed your post, @Michael Seswatha Jordan. I wouldn't have been able to offer much insight on who the Skins should go after as I really haven't followed the draft buildup this year. I'm still furious at the Skins organization and still working out my level of fandom going forward. From what I'm hearing sounds like they hit a possible HR at 17 with Allen. But hard to enjoy it with this level of ambivalence. Just gonna keep my focus on the Wizards and Nats and we'll see come August. 

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, given how bad the Bears' roster is, they should be trading back for more picks, not trading valuable picks for a questionable QB prospect. 

It's an incredible move.  You can't help but wonder if the Bears could have gotten him by just sitting tight.  The Niners weren't going to take him, and it's not even clear if the Browns were crazy about him or not.  If they'd just stayed quiet and acted like they were going defense (as everyone expected), it seems like a real possibility they could get him at 3. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Sorry I missed your post, MSW. I wouldn't have been able to offer much insight on who the Skins should go after as I really haven't followed the draft buildup this year. I'm still furious at the Skins organization and still working out my level of fandom going forward. From what I'm hearing sounds like they hit a possible HR at 17 with Allen. But hard to enjoy it with this level of ambivalence. Just gonna keep my focus on the Wizards and Nats and we'll see come August. 

Wow, I knew you were upset but I didn't realize it was this bad.  Are you more pissed about the McGlue firing or the Cousins drams?  Because I'm still holding out hope that we are going to resign Cousins and are just mangling the negotiations.  I'm not happy about what we did to Scot, but I also feel like it's hard to really know what happened there.  Lots of contradictory reporting and unnamed sources.  It's possible the Redskins are a horrible organization that fired a guy for speaking truth to power, then did a hit job on him to ensure he'd never work in the league again.  Or more charitably, it could have been a terrible fit for a "functional" alcoholic like Scot to come to a hard drinking organization like DC, and the team just realized it wasn't working and had to cut ties. 

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10 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

It's an incredible move.  You can't help but wonder if the Bears could have gotten him by just sitting tight.  The Niners weren't going to take him, and it's not even clear if the Browns were crazy about him or not.  If they'd just stayed quiet and acted like they were going defense (as everyone expected), it seems like a real possibility they could get him at 3. 

I think the Browns played them. That said, I would not have taken him at 3, or 30. None of the QBs in this draft were first rounders. 

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think the Browns played them. That said, I would not have taken him at 3, or 30. None of the QBs in this draft were first rounders. 

Agreed.  Everyone keeps saying "If you identify your quarterback, you spend whatever you need to go get him."

Well the flipside of that is if you miss on a first round QB, you have set your team back 5 years.

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5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think the Browns played them. That said, I would not have taken him at 3, or 30. None of the QBs in this draft were first rounders. 

But I don't really see what the Browns gained from this.  The Niners obviously.  Maybe that's one fewer team shopping for a quarterback next year?  It's not like the Browns get strong when the Bears are weak. 

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12 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

If Watt's last name was Smith, he wouldn't be drafted. Please give me Taco.

Yeah, I don't really get the hype about him. He runs about as fast and jumps exactly as high as his brother... who's 40 lbs heavier.

I mean, obviously, it's still way faster and and way higher than most college football players, but in the NFL, his athleticism would be like solid 75th percentile for linebackers, 50th for edge rushers.

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7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Wow, I knew you were upset but I didn't realize it was this bad.  Are you more pissed about the McGlue firing or the Cousins drams?  Because I'm still holding out hope that we are going to resign Cousins and are just mangling the negotiations.  I'm not happy about what we did to Scot, but I also feel like it's hard to really know what happened there.  Lots of contradictory reporting and unnamed sources.  It's possible the Redskins are a horrible organization that fired a guy for speaking truth to power, then did a hit job on him to ensure he'd never work in the league again.  Or more charitably, it could have been a terrible fit for a "functional" alcoholic like Scot to come to a hard drinking organization like DC, and the team just realized it wasn't working and had to cut ties. 

Primarily McCloughan. Just the straw that broke the camel's back.  Every 5 years we're offered a new savior that once they run afoul of Danny or his cronies is subject to  a very specific form of character assassination. Just in the last 5 years alone we've seen it with Shanahan, RG3 and now McCloughan. 

Except this one feels a step beyond in terms of how it went down. I'm done giving this organization the benefit of the doubt. We've long known this team was run by stupid, incompetent people. Think it's very possible they're also terrible human beings. Done giving 'em the benefit of the doubt. The parallels to the Trump administration are just too vivid right now. It's exhausting justifying my fandom of this team to others or myself. It's been nice taking a step and just focusing on teams I don't pause before saying their names, run by people I don't actively loathe. Hard to turn 20 years of intense fandom off like a light but it's definitely flickering right now. Maybe that ingrained enthusiasm comes back when football really starts up again in August and I miss talking about 'em with you and others...but just not sure. 

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52 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Agreed.  Everyone keeps saying "If you identify your quarterback, you spend whatever you need to go get him."

Well the flipside of that is if you miss on a first round QB, you have set your team back 5 years.

Well I do think there's some truth to that, but often times what ends up happening is teams decide they need a QB and then overspend for the best one available, regardless if he is worth it. I can totally justify the RG3 trade. The Goff trade on the other hand....

And I'm not saying that because I have the benefit of hindsight, I really thought RG3 would be a star. Goff was never better than a project second rounder. 

53 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

But I don't really see what the Browns gained from this.  The Niners obviously.  Maybe that's one fewer team shopping for a quarterback next year?  It's not like the Browns get strong when the Bears are weak. 

Anytime you can make another team do something stupid is a plus, even if you and they aren't contenders and not in the same conference. 

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6 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Primarily McCloughan. Just the straw that broke the camel's back.  Every 5 years we're offered a new savior that once they run afoul of Danny or his cronies is subject to  a very specific form of character assassination. Just in the last 5 years alone we've seen it with Shanahan, RG3 and now McCloughan. 

Except this one feels a step beyond in terms of how it went down. I'm done giving this organization the benefit of the doubt. We've long known this team was run by stupid, incompetent people. Think it's very possible they're also terrible human beings. Done giving 'em the benefit of the doubt. The parallels to the Trump administration are just too vivid right now. It's exhausting justifying my fandom of this team to others or myself. It's been nice taking a step and just focusing on teams I don't pause before saying their names, run by people I don't actively loathe. Hard to turn 20 years of intense fandom off like a light but it's definitely flickering right now. Maybe that ingrained enthusiasm comes back when football really starts up again in August and I miss talking about 'em with you and others...but just not sure. 

The RG3 rollercoaster was definitely harder for me than the McCloughan situation.  I still think that if he'd been drafted into a better situation that he would have succeeded in this league.  Watching him become a shell of himself was awful.  I seriously considered abandoning the team and becoming a Panthers or Bengals fan in the 2015 offseason.

The past two years, things have been better.  We've been competent on the field, and quiet off of it.  Then this offseason happened, and we inexplicably haven't resigned our quarterback in spite of him establishing himself as an above average starter. 

Maybe I was never as high on McCloughan as some Skins fans were.  I was hoping for the best, but I kind of expected our relationship to flame out with him at some point.  His past issues and our general dysfunction meant that a long successful partnership never seemed terribly likely.  Thus, for me, if next month we resign Cousins to a long term deal, then I feel like the GM nonsense is just a bump in the road.  Sure, Dan Snyder is a detestable Trump supporter who doesn't deserve this fanbase.  But that sadly is pretty standard for NFL owners, who are mostly only a slightly more polished flavor of the same shit sandwich.  And while I would really love just quitting the NFL, I haven't been able to.  I don't enjoy baseball at all, the NBA is a forgone conclusion for 90% of the league, and becoming a Caps fan is like agreeing to an abusive marriage. 

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