First season meeting [Book spoilers]

[Lucius Lovejoy]

I just finished reading the books over the past 3 months after being a show only person (lot's of long flights) and it was fascinating to me just how much variance there was between the books and the show.  Of course it started small, and then as the show and books grow they diverge quite a bit.  What was most interesting to me were some of the season 1 changes that could have been relatively inconsequential.  The one that keeps gnawing at me is that in the books Jaime Lannister and Jon Snow never have any meeting or discussion on the page, yet in the tv show Jaime meets Jon and gives him a lot of shit for joining the Night's Watch, talking down to him and being classic smug Jaime.  While it could just be D&D giving us some interaction between two major characters on completely different sides of the track, I think there's more to it.  I've long thought Jaime was ultimately going to be the person who, in some suicidal mission, destroys the White Walkers (kind of like how it was Randy Quaid's character in "Independence Day" who ultimately took out the alien ship at Area 51, not Bill Pullman or Will Smith or Jeff Goldblum).  I'm starting to think Jaime might do this not as a Lannister or a member of the Kingsguard, but potentially as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch based on this TV-only season 1 meeting.  Am I just reading too much into this?  Anyone have anything else from season 1 that stood out as different from the book (but not in an obvious major way)?

[The hairy bear]

I don't think we can draw many conclusions from the fact Jon and Jaime had a conversation in season 1. At that point, Benioff and Weiss had only read up to the fourth book, and didn't know about the future developments. IIRC, it wasn't until starting writing season 3 or 4 that they had a long interview with Martin when he explained them all the major upcoming plot turns.

So I would take Jaime and Jon's conversation just as a way to give some screentime to tow of the most important characters of the show that didn't have that much to do in the earlier episodes. That said, Jaime as a character really seems headed to some kind of suicidal sacrifice.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

10 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

I don't think we can draw many conclusions from the fact Jon and Jaime had a conversation in season 1. At that point, Benioff and Weiss had only read up to the fourth book, and didn't know about the future developments. IIRC, it wasn't until starting writing season 3 or 4 that they had a long interview with Martin when he explained them all the major upcoming plot turns.

So I would take Jaime and Jon's conversation just as a way to give some screentime to tow of the most important characters of the show that didn't have that much to do in the earlier episodes. That said, Jaime as a character really seems headed to some kind of suicidal sacrifice.

Ah thanks for the insight.  I was under the impression that George had already laid out the details of the end game for the major players, with the big post-season 3 meeting being about the rest of the details.  This makes sense.  I didn't start watching the show until right before season 4 as it was, so I wasn't keen to these things.  After reading the books I can see why people around here call show-Jaime "Larry" - it's a testament to NCW's performance that his character can still become beloved despite the confusing writing in S5 and S6.

[maudisdottir]

The show also added some of these non-existent book conversations as the books are able to get inside the characters' heads, whereas the show needs to make up scenes to give us more insight into their personalities.  That's just my own observation.

[Meera of Tarth]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:19 PM, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I just finished reading the books over the past 3 months after being a show only person (lot's of long flights) and it was fascinating to me just how much variance there was between the books and the show.  Of course it started small, and then as the show and books grow they diverge quite a bit.  What was most interesting to me were some of the season 1 changes that could have been relatively inconsequential.  The one that keeps gnawing at me is that in the books Jaime Lannister and Jon Snow never have any meeting or discussion on the page, yet in the tv show Jaime meets Jon and gives him a lot of shit for joining the Night's Watch, talking down to him and being classic smug Jaime.  While it could just be D&D giving us some interaction between two major characters on completely different sides of the track, I think there's more to it.  I've long thought Jaime was ultimately going to be the person who, in some suicidal mission, destroys the White Walkers (kind of like how it was Randy Quaid's character in "Independence Day" who ultimately took out the alien ship at Area 51, not Bill Pullman or Will Smith or Jeff Goldblum).  I'm starting to think Jaime might do this not as a Lannister or a member of the Kingsguard, but potentially as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch based on this TV-only season 1 meeting.  Am I just reading too much into this?  Anyone have anything else from season 1 that stood out as different from the book (but not in an obvious major way)?

I was thinking it might not be of importance, but it could be.

Actually, they know the ending from the start (this article is from 2011):

"We've talked through what the final episode, the final season will be."

George has proven through the discussions we've had that he's always known in the rough, broad strokes where this is going to end up," Weiss says."And we think it's going to end up in a way that is uniquely satisfying."

source: http://www.tvguide.com/news/game-thrones-lost-1031645/

And also:

We've been teeing up stuff all the time, since season one. We've known answers to questions since season one, the fates of certain characters. We know we can finish the story, so we're certainly writing with that in mind.

source: http://www.vulture.com/2015/04/game-of-thrones-showrunners-on-changes-from-the-books.html

so it could perfectly mean something. Especially considering that Jaime and Jon don't see eachother during all the seasons. But it doesn't have to, of course. It could be just something new they wanted to add.

What they probrably didn't know were the exact details of the ending, and then they had that meeting after.

I don't see Jaime as a LC but I can see him as making a sacrifice for the humanity if he has to have a tragic ending.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I was thinking it might not be of importance, but it could be.

Actually, they know the ending from the start (this article is from 2011):

"We've talked through what the final episode, the final season will be."

George has proven through the discussions we've had that he's always known in the rough, broad strokes where this is going to end up," Weiss says."And we think it's going to end up in a way that is uniquely satisfying."

source: http://www.tvguide.com/news/game-thrones-lost-1031645/

And also:

We've been teeing up stuff all the time, since season one. We've known answers to questions since season one, the fates of certain characters. We know we can finish the story, so we're certainly writing with that in mind.

source: http://www.vulture.com/2015/04/game-of-thrones-showrunners-on-changes-from-the-books.html

so it could perfectly mean something. Especially considering that Jaime and Jon don't see eachother during all the seasons. But it doesn't have to, of course. It could be just something new they wanted to add.

What they probrably didn't know were the exact details of the ending, and then they had that meeting after.

I don't see Jaime as a LC but I can see him as making a sacrifice for the humanity if he has to have a tragic ending.

@Meera of Tarth this is fantastic and well sourced - thank you!  The LC thing came to me as an idea because it's dramatic and it would be a 360 from how Jaime was so dismissive about the men there and their purpose, plus it might be his way of atoning for his crimes - all is forgiven when you take the black.  I don't realistically expect this to happen, and think it is less likely in the books, but it might be a cool twist they telegraphed early.  Whether or not he has any connection with the NW, I definitely see him sacrificing himself in a heroic way.  And either way because of that season 1 meeting I am moreso stoked for Jon and Jaime meeting again this season.