Who tyrion will choose?

[Joy Hill]

I agree that Tyrion will be on the side of the girl who has dragons, who can give him CR and his revenge on Westeros. But who knows, he may end up stealing a dragon or betraying Dany to save his brother.

I find it interesting that in the original outline, Tyrion was supposed to end up fighting on the side of the Starks. I don't really see that happening now (Maybe Jaime will do that instead of Tyrion?).

4 hours ago, talvikorppi said:

Sorry to go O/T but Jaime saving Tyrion's life (even if Varys was going to do it anyway) is yet another example of Jaime breaking vows for love. Lord Commander of the Kingsguard releasing the prisoner convicted of regicide? Huh?

Jaime really is a serial offender. 1) Kills the king (instead of his father as Aerys commanded = filial love) 2) defenestrated Bran (to save Cersei's and his own arse = their love) 3) frees convicted kingslayer Tyrion (=brotherly love). 1) and 3) have mitigating circumstances, namely saving 500.000 innocent lives and saving an innocent man. Jeez, I hope Jaime directs his love wisely in the future as he's liable to do anything for "love".

Not to mention sending a wench to try to protect the girl whom he believes to be responsible of the king's death. I love Jaime, and he had good reasons for many of his actions, but the CV of his career as a KG kind of sucks.

[Good Guy Garlan]

6 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Tyrion is probably gonna choose squirtle. He knows the strength of the old man of the river. 

Squirtle? That was a full fledged Blastoise. 

Nah, he's probably going to choose the side with the dragons, as foreshadowed by his cyvasse game with Aegon. 

[talvikorppi]

1 hour ago, Sea Dragon said:

I think he will work hard to broker a deal between the two. I think Tyrion will use Daenarys to come home with, and he will kill Cersei, and then he will become the Lord of Casterly Rock and honorable servant to the new king and queen. 

The problem with this scenario is that he is a kinslayer of the worst kind (killed his father). Even if he wins Casterly Rock through the sewers or through Dany's dragonfire, he won't be beloved or even popular in the Westerlands. Demon monkey and all that. Unfair, yes. The lords and smallfolk would prefer his tall, golden brother... Jaime doesn't want Casterly Rock, but could we see a real rift in the brotherly love developing here? (It's so pointless, Tyrion warring for something Jaime doesn't even want.)

[Byfort of Corfe]

1 hour ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Thinking that way seems like Tyrion can betray anyone at anytime. I always saw Tyrion as a selfish man who cares about himself more than others. But I don't think it's a bad thing, all the things he have done were for survival or human things like revenge and hatred, like when he kills his father and kills a whore who was lying to him, again.

 

I do think that Tyrion can betray anyone at any time and not always with good reason.  I do think that he will side with Dany because knows why Varys broke him out of prison.  Varys thinks that Tyrion will help Ageon and further Varys' and Illyrios plan, which is to put Aegon, who they think they can control, on the throne.  Instead Tyrion sees Aegon as his own method of revenge against Cersei and convinces Aegon to abandon the plan and move immediately to Westeros.  Of course Tyrion gets caught by Jorah and then enslaved and now he's with the Second Sons.  He's nearer to her than he is to Aegon and Griff/Connington isn't about to let Tyrion become a confidante to Aegon.  While Dany moves West Tyrion is going to have time to consider.  He will be close to Dany, probably a trusted advisor, meanwhile he will always just be a bit player in Aegon's entourage.  Tyrion will start to work on Dany, gee, do you really just want to marry your nephew and play second fiddle to him and stay at home and pop out his babies?  Tyrion will get Dany to start to question whether or not Aegon is even who he says he is or whether he's just an invention of Varys and Illyrio.  Depending on the situation in Westeros I can easily see Dany fighting Aegon (with Tyrion having convinced her).  If of course it is to Tyrion's advantage.

[Joey Crows]

17 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

So, I have a question for you guys (as always). We all know that Tyrion is in Meeren and with the second sons at his disposal. BUT he can change sides again and return to westeros with them and join Aegon who has a stronger position at westeros (where Tyrion has more plans). So do you guys think he'll join Daenerys or Aegon? OR even if he's going to try to convince Daenerys to join Aegon when the time come? All ideas are as good as any.

I always got the impression he was trying to convince Aegon to head West for two reasons: First as a big "fuck you" to Jon Connington and his plans. And second as a way to make sure Aegon saw his worth just in case. But, I think once he realized he could make his way to Dany he saw that as a much better option. He is well aware of the military power of dragons and sees that as the best way to take Casterly Rock for himself finally.

As far as what happens later on, I can't see him changing sides if he does indeed get the Rock. Even if he has to continue to be subservient to Dany, he seems to want his birthright more than any grander power and is actually happy with the potential role as a trusted advisor. However, if Dany were to fall he would have to ally with someone. Probably Jon Snow due to their relationship when Tyrion was at the Wall. 

[talvikorppi]

1 hour ago, Joy Hill said:

I agree that Tyrion will be on the side of the girl who has dragons, who can give him CR and his revenge on Westeros. But who knows, he may end up stealing a dragon or betraying Dany to save his brother.

I find it interesting that in the original outline, Tyrion was supposed to end up fighting on the side of the Starks. I don't really see that happening now (Maybe Jaime will do that instead of Tyrion?).

Not to mention sending a wench to try to protect the girl whom he believes to be responsible of the king's death. I love Jaime, and he had good reasons for many of his actions, but the CV of his career as a KG kind of sucks.

Haha, Jaime really sucks at keeping oaths and vows. He keeps doing things for love, or for the greater good. He's our walking, talking piece of evidence that Westeros-type vows/oaths suck. (not that he thinks that way. He's now trying to keep all his vows, even rejecting Cersei's sexual advances.)

I bolded that bit to highlight two things. One, the king is actually his son, not just any king. Two, he doesn't actually believe Tyrion and Sansa killed Joffrey. He doesn't know who did, but he doesn't think it was Tyrion/Sansa.

Jaime is a foolish romantic compared to his smart and practical and cynical little brother. (Though Jaime can be wonderfully sarky, too, especially in his inner monologue.)

Tyrion will be alligned with Dany, it'll be interesting what this means to Jaime/Cersei and Jaime/Tyrion. (Unless Jaime is dead by then, which is a possibility.)

[talvikorppi]

10 minutes ago, Joey Crows said:

I always got the impression he was trying to convince Aegon to head West for two reasons: First as a big "fuck you" to Jon Connington and his plans. And second as a way to make sure Aegon saw his worth just in case. But, I think once he realized he could make his way to Dany he saw that as a much better option. He is well aware of the military power of dragons and sees that as the best way to take Casterly Rock for himself finally.

As far as what happens later on, I can't see him changing sides if he does indeed get the Rock. Even if he has to continue to be subservient to Dany, he seems to want his birthright more than any grander power and is actually happy with the potential role as a trusted advisor. However, if Dany were to fall he would have to ally with someone. Probably Jon Snow due to their relationship when Tyrion was at the Wall. 

I'd add a third reason. A big "fuck you" to his sister and the whole of Westeros. (His irritation and antagonism with JonCon is relatively minor compared to how he feels about his sister... His family... All of Westerosi society, in fact)

I find your second idea (testing (f)Aegon) a refreshing one. I'll have to think about that. Thank you for providing delicious food for thought.

[Joey Crows]

3 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

I'd add a third reason. A big "fuck you" to his sister and the whole of Westeros. (His irritation and antagonism with JonCon is relatively minor compared to how he feels about his sister... His family... All of Westerosi society, in fact)

I find your second idea (testing (f)Aegon) a refreshing one. I'll have to think about that. Thank you for providing delicious food for thought.

Ah yes, you're right about Cersei and the rest of the establishment. And you're welcome

[Ser Loras The Gay]

47 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

I'd add a third reason. A big "fuck you" to his sister and the whole of Westeros. (His irritation and antagonism with JonCon is relatively minor compared to how he feels about his sister... His family... All of Westerosi society, in fact)

I don't know about the "whole westeros". We know for a fact that he likes the free cities more than Westeros, but I don't see him hating westeros per see. I think he hates the people who controls it. He hates all those meaningless plots for power and politians who are willing to kill thousands of innocent people to maintain their power. He sees Varys and Dany as a mean to end this. He wants the power dynamics renewed. He know many people will die, but at least peace can return once and for all (or at least until another baratheon kills the targs).

[Coolbeard the Exile]

20 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

So, I have a question for you guys (as always). We all know that Tyrion is in Meeren and with the second sons at his disposal. BUT he can change sides again and return to westeros with them and join Aegon who has a stronger position at westeros (where Tyrion has more plans). So do you guys think he'll join Daenerys or Aegon? OR even if he's going to try to convince Daenerys to join Aegon when the time come? All ideas are as good as any.

Tyrion is absolutely fascinated by dragons no way he will head back to Westeros without being on her side. Im sure he will try to convince Danerys to join Aegon because Aegon's heart seems to be in the right place.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

7 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

I agree that Tyrion will be on the side of the girl who has dragons, who can give him CR and his revenge on Westeros. But who knows, he may end up stealing a dragon or betraying Dany to save his brother.

I find it interesting that in the original outline, Tyrion was supposed to end up fighting on the side of the Starks. I don't really see that happening now (Maybe Jaime will do that instead of Tyrion?).

Not to mention sending a wench to try to protect the girl whom he believes to be responsible of the king's death. I love Jaime, and he had good reasons for many of his actions, but the CV of his career as a KG kind of sucks.

Is there any indication in the text that Jaime actually believes Sansa was involved in Joffrey's death?

He asked Tyrion if he was guilty but never asked him about Sansa.

[Joey Crows]

5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Is there any indication in the text that Jaime actually believes Sansa was involved in Joffrey's death?

He asked Tyrion if he was guilty but never asked him about Sansa.

I don't have the text to say yay or nay, but I have to think Jamie at most thinks Sansa was perhaps a small part of the incident solely based on her marriage to Tyrion. But really, he seems to barely consider her at all. Except for his growing sense of honor and duty when he sends Brienne on her quest. But that was less about Sansa as a person and more about his character development. 

[Joy Hill]

13 hours ago, talvikorppi said:

Haha, Jaime really sucks at keeping oaths and vows. He keeps doing things for love, or for the greater good. He's our walking, talking piece of evidence that Westeros-type vows/oaths suck. (not that he thinks that way. He's now trying to keep all his vows, even rejecting Cersei's sexual advances.)

I bolded that bit to highlight two things. One, the king is actually his son, not just any king. Two, he doesn't actually believe Tyrion and Sansa killed Joffrey. He doesn't know who did, but he doesn't think it was Tyrion/Sansa.

Jaime is a foolish romantic compared to his smart and practical and cynical little brother. (Though Jaime can be wonderfully sarky, too, especially in his inner monologue.)

Tyrion will be alligned with Dany, it'll be interesting what this means to Jaime/Cersei and Jaime/Tyrion. (Unless Jaime is dead by then, which is a possibility.)

 

7 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Is there any indication in the text that Jaime actually believes Sansa was involved in Joffrey's death?

He asked Tyrion if he was guilty but never asked him about Sansa.

 

When he sends Brienne on his quest, he tells her that he believes Sansa is the one who killed Joffrey. In the previous Jaime chapter, when Loras names Sansa the culprit, he thinks to himself that it makes sense and Tyrion might be innocent. I don't think Jaime was 100% convinced, but he saw her as the most likely suspect (he wanted Tyrion to be innocent, and Sansa does look suspicious : having every reason in the world to kill Joffrey, disappearing during the night of his death). 

Of course, afterwards Tyrion says he did it. . . Jaime is more interested about Lancel, Osmund Kettleblack and Mooboy, but he does imagine Tyrion saying "I killed your vile son and now I'm going to kill your father", so I think he at least partly believes him.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 4/4/2017 at 9:36 PM, Ser Loras The Gay said:

So, I have a question for you guys (as always). We all know that Tyrion is in Meeren and with the second sons at his disposal. BUT he can change sides again and return to westeros with them and join Aegon who has a stronger position at westeros (where Tyrion has more plans). So do you guys think he'll join Daenerys or Aegon? OR even if he's going to try to convince Daenerys to join Aegon when the time come? All ideas are as good as any.

I suspect Tyrion will help Brown Ben bond with Viserion and join Daenerys, but then betray her for gold, all the gold of Casterly Rock. 

[Makk]

On 4/6/2017 at 9:46 AM, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Tyrion is absolutely fascinated by dragons no way he will head back to Westeros without being on her side. Im sure he will try to convince Danerys to join Aegon because Aegon's heart seems to be in the right place.

I'm not so sure about that. I think he will be the one to tell Dany that Aegon is a fake.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

28 minutes ago, Makk said:

I'm not so sure about that. I think he will be the one to tell Dany that Aegon is a fake.

But why?

 

[Makk]

25 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

But why?

 

Because it's the truth and for power. He will seek to become indispensable to her.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Makk said:

Because it's the truth and for power. He will seek to become indispensable to her.

And how's that the "truth" you mean the THEORY about him being a blackfyre?

 

[Makk]

2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

And how's that the "truth" you mean the THEORY about him being a blackfyre?

 

Yes, I think it is pretty clear myself. You disagree about that?

I also think it is clear that Daenerys goes to war with him (slayer of lies and cloth dragons). I believe she will discover he isn't who he (or more accurately Varys) is claiming he is. Who is likely to have this insight other than Tyrion?

And there is also the question of the Cyvasse game in which Tyrion clearly manipulates Aegon and then seem ecstatic when he finds out that Aegon may have taken the "bait". Why would he want to send Aegon away from Daenerys if he wanted to end up pals? 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 minute ago, Makk said:

And there is also the question of the Cyvasse game in which Tyrion clearly manipulates Aegon and then seem ecstatic when he finds out that Aegon may have taken the "bait". Why would he want to send Aegon away from Daenerys if he wanted to end up pals? 

Because he didn't have enough numbers. It's said on the text. He wanted Aegon to go to westeros for bargain power. If he already had some land and allies he would have more to offer with a marriage deal.