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So did Shireen's sacrifice postpone winter or not?


Pink Fat Rast

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At the end of S6, there's snow and winter obviously, but the battle in E9 has no snow in it as far as I recall - maybe some is falling from the sky at some point, but it looks like fall or summer in comparison to when Stannis was there.

Also none of the scenes where they tried to recruit Northern houses took place in full-on winter, as far as I recall.


However, when Stannis was moving towards Winterfell, he made clear on numerous occasions that winter was gonna be here any moment now and therefore they couldn't return to the Wall anymore, or stay there any longer before they left. Had he only known the snow and could would disappear again for a few weeks before returning, right?

Or, could it really be that the Winter was coming that very moment, and the sacrifice halted it for a few weeks until it finally came in E10?

Sure, in a complete narrative characters would've noticed the peculiarity of this unusual weather "fluctuation" and set that up as a possibility - but it's still worth asking that question, I think.

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7 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

Yeah, I suppose it did. Just long enough so they could justify not shooting that battle in a blizzard. If I remember correctly it was snowing again already when Sansa was in the godswood in episode 10. 

Doesn't Melisandre ride off into the Snow?  And IIRC, it's snowing when Jon and Sansa talk on the battlements of Winterfell, in fact I think that's when Sansa tells Jon that they have received a white raven.  Having said that though I'm pretty sure that you don't have to have snow on the ground or a blizzard blowing for it to be winter.  I'd say if it postponed winter it was only for a few days.

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2 minutes ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

Doesn't Melisandre ride off into the Snow?  And IIRC, it's snowing when Jon and Sansa talk on the battlements of Winterfell, in fact I think that's when Sansa tells Jon that they have received a white raven.  Having said that though I'm pretty sure that you don't have to have snow on the ground or a blizzard blowing for it to be winter.  I'd say if it postponed winter it was only for a few days.

Yes she does! And yeah, that's what I meant, it was delayed for those two days Stannis tried to battle Ramsay. Snow is needed because this isn't any random winter it is the great night and a great winter with so much snow it buries the houses etc. 

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2 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

 Snow is needed because this isn't any random winter it is the great night and a great winter with so much snow it buries the houses etc. 

I didn't know this, I thought that it would just be a very long winter (long winters supposedly following long summers).  I guess I have to get some of the books other than the 5 novels.

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18 minutes ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

I didn't know this, I thought that it would just be a very long winter (long winters supposedly following long summers).  I guess I have to get some of the books other than the 5 novels.

According to the maesters it is, but characters aware of the WW return (those in the North and Melisandre) think it's gonna be the next Long Night instead. 

Whether that's true or not, who knows.

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8 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

At the end of S6, there's snow and winter obviously, but the battle in E9 has no snow in it as far as I recall -

As I said ^^

If that's indeed the case, then whatever magic that's behind it ("the red god" or not) apparently placed value on the Boltons' defeat, or the victory of whoever was considered AA at that time, or something along those lines.

It'd be striking if the entirety of S6 was spent in "relative non-winter" and it only came back full force in the last episode - if my brain's not malfunctioning, that is. If it is, then it was just a weather fluctuation.

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17 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

As I said ^^

If that's indeed the case, then whatever magic that's behind it ("the red god" or not) apparently placed value on the Boltons' defeat, or the victory of whoever was considered AA at that time, or something along those lines.

It'd be striking if the entirety of S6 was spent in "relative non-winter" and it only came back full force in the last episode - if my brain's not malfunctioning, that is. If it is, then it was just a weather fluctuation.

One of the things that bothers me about the HBO series (and I get that not everything that we see is necessarily simultaneous or contemporaneous) but that he doesn't even seem to be Fall yet in King's Landing or the Riverlands.  If it's supposed to be this big climactic event shouldn't they at least be in sweater weather?

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2 hours ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

I didn't know this, I thought that it would just be a very long winter (long winters supposedly following long summers).  I guess I have to get some of the books other than the 5 novels.

There's an old nan story about the "long night when the others came" it talks about all the darkness and 30 feet deep snow. It's obviously an exaggeration but you get an idea about what a serious winter is supposed to look like. Well, we will have snow all over westeros this season so I guess we'll see.

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18 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

There's an old nan story about the "long night when the others came" it talks about all the darkness and 30 feet deep snow. It's obviously an exaggeration but you get an idea about what a serious winter is supposed to look like. Well, we will have snow all over westeros this season so I guess we'll see.

Supposedly the snow at Winterfell was deep enough to cushion Sansa and Theon's landing when they jumped off the wall.

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9 minutes ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

Supposedly the snow at Winterfell was deep enough to cushion Sansa and Theon's landing when they jumped off the wall.

Yeah then that snow disappeared for the next season. Supposedly because of shireen? Or I'm not sure what else we are supposed to believe. 

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9 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

Yeah then that snow disappeared for the next season. Supposedly because of shireen? Or I'm not sure what else we are supposed to believe. 

The Battle of the Bastards was an intricate enough scene to shoot without a snowstorm. The mounted men had very precise lanes that they had to charge through, adding snow would have made that really dangerous.  So from a filming perspective I can see why they did it.  It is awfully muddy around Winterfell maybe we're supposed to assume that it all melted.  And maybe D&D figured that we would supply the reasoning behind the lack of snow.

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8 minutes ago, The Bear Who Knocks said:

No it was never winter. The showrunners conveniently only made Winter arrive now. They only talked about and acknowledged Winter as a thing this past year after season 6. The snow conditions in season 5 must be a plot hole to "justify" Stannis getting brain damage.

Laughably invalid complaints about the show belong in the RRR thread, that's what it was made for.

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1 hour ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

The Battle of the Bastards was an intricate enough scene to shoot without a snowstorm. The mounted men had very precise lanes that they had to charge through, adding snow would have made that really dangerous.  So from a filming perspective I can see why they did it.  It is awfully muddy around Winterfell maybe we're supposed to assume that it all melted.  And maybe D&D figured that we would supply the reasoning behind the lack of snow.

Yeah of course it made perfect sense from production perspective. And the shireen sacrifice sort of justifies it in the story frame too. I have no complaints about that. It was okay. 

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23 minutes ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Laughably invalid complaints about the show belong in the RRR thread, that's what it was made for.

And entire threads dedicated to figuring out something that should be quite simple, and self explanatory is quite laughable as well. Great job d$d.

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25 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

And entire threads dedicated to figuring out something that should be quite simple, and self explanatory is quite laughable as well. Great job d$d.

The sacrifice causing the mystical winter to delay is something that should be "quite simple" and "self-explanatory", like right away? Are you really sure what you're saying there m8?


And yes, they did mention "winter" in S5 - Ramsay to Sansa, and Stannis several times at the Wall and then after leaving.
As I said - there's a nice thread for talking nonsense "without repercussions", it's named that way for a reason.
 

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