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NBA 2017: Playoffs? Playoffs?!


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7 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I'm still somewhat nervous about this series. I bet money on the Wizards and aside from that I really want them to win because they are a charismatic team. BUt I don't trust the Hawks, I never do, and I was loathe to bet against them. They are unpredictable and their Spurs like "team first, we have no stars here" concept oftentimes works when they need it.

And it's true, they really don't have *any* stars anymore, even Howard has lost a lot of shine. But still, they are dangerous, and I worry that the Wizards aren't focused enough.

Whoa, how much?

You're bolder than I am. As a fan of DC sports teams, I don't think I could ever be convinced to put money on them. It's bad enough getting taken for my emotional investment in each sport, each season. 

But agree they play a charismatic style of basketball. Hoping they keep doing the little things tonight. 

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This game was the platonic ideal of the two MVP candidacies.

Westbrook - 51/10/13...unreal stats....but on 41 shots...played out of his mind as OKC built a big lead. His bench gave it all back. Then he came back in during the 4th quarter and shot his team out of the game with too many misses. First time I've ever seen Westbrook tired. 

Harden - 35/4/8....very efficient stats, only 17 shots...but got to rest to his heart's content while Gordon and Williams handled the entire comeback themselves...also 7 turnovers. 

Feel terrible for Westbrook. He was on his way to a legendary night and his teammates let him down. The 4th was ugly but I'm sure he felt like there was no other options. 

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37 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

This game was the platonic ideal of the two MVP candidacies.

Westbrook - 51/10/13...unreal stats....but on 41 shots...played out of his mind as OKC built a big lead. His bench gave it all back. Then he came back in during the 4th quarter and shot his team out of the game with too many misses. First time I've ever seen Westbrook tired. 

Harden - 35/4/8....very efficient stats, only 17 shots...but got to rest to his heart's content while Gordon and Williams handled the entire comeback themselves...also 7 turnovers. 

Feel terrible for Westbrook. He was on his way to a legendary night and his teammates let him down. The 4th was ugly but I'm sure he felt like there was no other options. 

Box score has Westbrook at 43 shots, plus 18 free throws.

I only got to see the 4th, and at least for that I'd have to grade IE on the idea his teammates can't score. He's a battler, but I honestly don't see that his teammates have much of a chance to get any kind of feel with him on the floor. Maybe do a Larry Brown Chucker Special where the entire offence is built around the assumption he's shooting and you're gonna try and get offensive boards or second chances, build your roster on that plus D like with Iverson? I doubt you're gonna get RW to dial it back any time soon, and he's clearly your best player, so...?

The play that jumped out at me was that huge no call on the over and backs it's like 2-3 mins left. It wasn't remotely close...took two steps to get back into the front court...and there was zero chance any Rocket had touched it, so either the refs were inexplicably ignoring the ball or they forgot it was a rule. Can't possibly be a 'judgment' call as there was nothing whatever to judge. That could have been a huge moment, but fortunately for Houston it was irrelevant in the end. But it stands out more because there is literally no argument for the non-call that I can think of.

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There was a sequence last night that perfectly demonstrated why I hate Harden's game. On a pick and roll, he could have either pulled up for a shot or driven to the rim, but instead, you can see him looking at the defender's outstretched arm, he grabs it, then throws himself into the defender, and flails the ball into the air.

Two free throws....

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I still don't get the idea that "Westbrook and Harden this season have been about equally good" got any traction. Clearly the ones who support it didn't watch these teams regularly. I think Harden has a great case for MVP, but to say his cast is equally good as Westbrook is just bizarre for me. Yeah, Harden doesn't have All-star teammates, but he has mostly very good and experienced players around him who fit well with him. He has a bunch of good shooters and Gordon and Beverley are solid ballhandlers and passers. The Rockets usually maintain or extend their lead when Harden goes to the bench. That almost never happen with the Thunder. The Thunder gave 3 rookies major minutes all season and none of them was a two-way player at all. Sabonis was horrendous offensively, Abrines is a very good shooter but just too small and weak physically to defend effectively NBA wings and Christon just atrocious at everything. He is literally the worst player in the league statistically outside of players who only play in garbage time. He shot 34% from the field, 19% from 3 and 54% from the stripe (not that he ever got to the line). He was 4th from last in RPM in the whole league. His TS% was one of the worst ever since the 3 point line was introduced. And it's not like he's much of a passer or defender.

Adams has regressed defensively. Oladipo is a streaky shooter who can't get to the line at all and is pretty mediocre as a ballhandler and passer. Kanter is a really good scorer and offensive rebounder but a complete black hole on offense and what's worse, he just can't stay on the field against good offenses because he's really bad defensively. Roberson is a great wing defender but he can't shoot at all which in the modern NBA is a huge liability for a perimeter player. Gibson might be their best player overall after Russ, frankly, and he was given away by Chicago for nothing and is quite limited offensively. Plus Donovan for some reason don't play him enough. Speaking of Donovan, he's a very overrated coach IMO. He hasn't established his rotations all season and went 12 deep last night for some bizarre reason. All season the gameplan when Westbrook was on the bench was "Give the ball to Kanter and have him post up every possession" but now he decided he can't use Kanter when Harden is on the field so the bench units are completely lost on offense in these minutes.

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It is weird to contrast Wall and Harden, because while both are great players, Wall's game is so much more watchable, and frankly it feels like he gets a LOT fewer bailout calls than Harden does.  Wall's aggressive drives to the hole apparently isn't as consistent as Harden's strategy of jumping into the defender's outstretched arm and flailing about. 

I'm absolutely biased on this issue, but I feel like Wall is everything you want in a guard - strong defense, great passer, and relentlessly aggressive when needed.  Harden on the other hand is just so frustrating.  It seems like he is playing a different game than any other player.  That game is undeniably effective, but I wouldn't watch the NBA if everyone played like that. 

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9 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Box score has Westbrook at 43 shots, plus 18 free throws.

I only got to see the 4th, and at least for that I'd have to grade IE on the idea his teammates can't score. He's a battler, but I honestly don't see that his teammates have much of a chance to get any kind of feel with him on the floor. Maybe do a Larry Brown Chucker Special where the entire offence is built around the assumption he's shooting and you're gonna try and get offensive boards or second chances, build your roster on that plus D like with Iverson? I doubt you're gonna get RW to dial it back any time soon, and he's clearly your best player, so...?

The play that jumped out at me was that huge no call on the over and backs it's like 2-3 mins left. It wasn't remotely close...took two steps to get back into the front court...and there was zero chance any Rocket had touched it, so either the refs were inexplicably ignoring the ball or they forgot it was a rule. Can't possibly be a 'judgment' call as there was nothing whatever to judge. That could have been a huge moment, but fortunately for Houston it was irrelevant in the end. But it stands out more because there is literally no argument for the non-call that I can think of.

 

His teammates were atrocious, once again. The box plus/minus tells the story in this one. Russell dominated this game, but the backup point guard went -18 in 7 minutes of floor action. With Oladipo playing like a complete shit stain, Russ is forced to try to do it himself.

 

Eric Gordon and Lou Williams go for 22 and 21 on 8-14 shooting each, and we're still going to pretend that the Thunder supporting cast is even in the same league?

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57 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

It is weird to contrast Wall and Harden, because while both are great players, Wall's game is so much more watchable, and frankly it feels like he gets a LOT fewer bailout calls than Harden does.  Wall's aggressive drives to the hole apparently isn't as consistent as Harden's strategy of jumping into the defender's outstretched arm and flailing about. 

Maybe you should write a strongly worded letter to Wall to throw his head back like he just got sucker punched every time someone is within two feet of him. 

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43 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

His teammates were atrocious, once again. The box plus/minus tells the story in this one. Russell dominated this game, but the backup point guard went -18 in 7 minutes of floor action. With Oladipo playing like a complete shit stain, Russ is forced to try to do it himself.

Yea, but Wall is so fun to watch. His speed, floor vision and flare for the game are unmatched in my mind. Been one of my favorite watches in the league these past two years. And, I don't think he's peaked yet, tbh.

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8 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Yea, but Wall is so fun to watch. His speed, floor vision and flare for the game are unmatched in my mind. Been one of my favorite watches in the league these past two years. And, I don't think he's peaked yet, tbh.

Wall could still get a bit better, particularly as his jump shot improves.  But I think Beal is the one that still has a long way to grow.  He can be so dominant one quarter and then disappear the next, it is weird.  And that applies to both ends of the court too.  Beal/Wall are IMO easily the second best guard tandem in the country (after Curry/Thompson) and they are looking to close the gap.  Although it's hard to make a fair comparison when the rest of the Warriors are just so much more talented than what they have in Washington.  If only Durant had wanted to come home, we'd be title favorites!

Oh Durant, I'm not pissed that you didn't go to Washington.  By all accounts, you actually wanted to stay away from the drama your hometown crew in Maryland, and I respect that.  But going to Golden State was really really lame.  I hate frontrunners, and that team is going to be prohibitive favorites until the salary cap finally destroys them (probably after the 2018 season). 

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17 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Whoa, how much?

You're bolder than I am. As a fan of DC sports teams, I don't think I could ever be convinced to put money on them. It's bad enough getting taken for my emotional investment in each sport, each season. 

$ 60.00 on a combo that has the Wizards, Clippers and Raptors win their series.

Betting on the Cavs, Spurs, GS or even the Rockets gave you absolutely nothing.

One series where you could have won big is if you'd bet on the Bulls to beat the Celtics. I predicted a 7 game series but could not convince myself the Celtics would actually get ejected.

11 hours ago, Jaime L said:

This game was the platonic ideal of the two MVP candidacies.

Westbrook - 51/10/13...unreal stats....but on 41 shots...played out of his mind as OKC built a big lead. His bench gave it all back. Then he came back in during the 4th quarter and shot his team out of the game with too many misses. First time I've ever seen Westbrook tired. 

Harden - 35/4/8....very efficient stats, only 17 shots...but got to rest to his heart's content while Gordon and Williams handled the entire comeback themselves...also 7 turnovers. 

Feel terrible for Westbrook. He was on his way to a legendary night and his teammates let him down. The 4th was ugly but I'm sure he felt like there was no other options. 

You see some criticism of Westbrook, saying that this game proved why they won't get there in this manner and with this team.

Of course the thing is, they are never going to get there anyway with this team. It's easy to point out that Westbrook shot poorly towards the end as he was gassed, but he did still carry the team the whole night, and when he sat, they hemorrhaged points. I'll once again point to Oladipo, with 11 points in 41 minutes, shooting 1-7 from beyond the arc. Adams had maybe 5 points and only shot 3 times the entire game. 

I do wonder about Westbrook and Adams. Is Adams scoring so little because Russ isn't giving him enough opportunities? Is he given the opportunities but not taking them? Or is he not being given them anymore because he's not been converting at a decent rate. In any case, he offers very little going forward this season. Still a fan of him though.

Conversely, guys like Gordon and Williams proved to be excellent off the bench for Houston.

 

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8 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Zombies can only grow more numerous.  And, at times, more fundamentally sound on defense. 

The zombie lifestyle is mostly offensive, so good luck with that.

Speaking of which, have we ever decided what type of zombie Beal is? 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

It is weird to contrast Wall and Harden, because while both are great players, Wall's game is so much more watchable, and frankly it feels like he gets a LOT fewer bailout calls than Harden does.  Wall's aggressive drives to the hole apparently isn't as consistent as Harden's strategy of jumping into the defender's outstretched arm and flailing about. 

I'm absolutely biased on this issue, but I feel like Wall is everything you want in a guard - strong defense, great passer, and relentlessly aggressive when needed.  Harden on the other hand is just so frustrating.  It seems like he is playing a different game than any other player.  That game is undeniably effective, but I wouldn't watch the NBA if everyone played like that. 

Oh, John Wall plays an infinitely more compelling style than Harden. Think it's criminal how low John Wall's national profile is except among devoted hoop fans. Hopefully that starts to change now that he's consistently putting up 30/10 in the playoffs.

The guy's style is the closest thing to Westbrook just without the sheer power of Russ's game but with more adept floor awareness. Have no idea how he finds some of the guys at the three point arc after plunging into the lane at 100 MPH and undertaking a spin move through contact. 

I'm biased too, but with Chris Paul taking a half step back I don't think anyone does more to make his teammates better offensively outside of Lebron and maybe Steph (due to the gravity he creates at all times). If Otto Porter gets anything close to a max deal,Wall deserves a 20% cut. 

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8 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

Oh, John Wall plays an infinitely more compelling style than Harden. Think it's criminal how low John Wall's national profile is except among devoted hoop fans. Hopefully that starts to change now that he's consistently putting up 30/10 in the playoffs.

Hopefully that starts to change with a Finals run this year.  Not that I expect it, but we've got a clear path to the ECF, and we'll have a puncher's chance if we get there.  Getting swept by the Warriors would be a lot of fun, right?

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