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Ashara, her child and the father?


Scotty Blackfyre

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So to recap, Ashara Dayne (sister of Arthur Dayne) was a maid to Princess Elia Targaryen (prev Martell), she was very beautiful and had a great many admirers (inc Barristan Selmy and Ned Stark). Someone took 'liberties' with her at the Harrenhal tourney and she 'turned to Stark' (likely Ned). Later after the events at the Tower of Joy, Ned returned Arthur's sword 'Dawn' to Startfall (House Daynes Castle) after which Ashara is said to have jumped off a tower into the sea after grieving for the loss of her still born daughter and the death of her brother ... but her body was never found ... oooooo errrrr

I have a theory (maybe others have already come up with this but I've not see it elsewhere), so here goes;

1. Who would possibly be crazy enough to have gotten Ashara pregnant (out of wedlock and without her consent) without fearing reprisals from her brother, Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning and the greatest knight in Westeros?

2. Who was at the Harrenhal Tourney?

3. Who was known to 'impose' himself on noble women?

Drum roll ..... King Aerys Targaryen! 

Aerys was crazy and was protected from reprisals from Arthur because of Arthur's Kingsguard oath to protect the King. Aerys unexpectedly attended the Harrenhal Tourney (to stifle Rhaegar gaining support of the noble houses). Aerys was known to have 'imposed' himself on his wife and Joanna Lannister (Tywins wife) - why wouldn't he do the same with the most beautiful woman in Westeros?

Aerys raped Ashara and got her pregnant, she gave birth to a Daughter who WAS NOT still born ... the daughter survived and is ....

Drum roll ..... Daenarys Targaryen!

What do you think guys? 

This is my first post so go easy on me lol :)

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Welcome Scotty!! :D

I'm not so well versed in Ashara, even if I find her story really intriguing. Expecially the end (what do you think about it?)

However I've read some theories about Daeny as Ashara's daughter, but I am not so keen. But I've never read anything about Aerys/Ashara's rapist and I find it interesting, really credible.

 

If I remember well @Lady Blizzardborn talked about it in another thread, maybe she is more expert than me

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14 hours ago, Scotty Blackfyre said:

 

What do you think guys? 

 

No.

Specifically to the part where Daenerys is her daughter. And that's not because you are new or it's your first post, but I just see no point in discussing Ashara Dayne as mother to Dany or Jon yet again.

The rest of your points, with Aerys I could, theoretically picture. I don't think we have gotten anything in the books that would point towards this, but eh.

If Ashara Dayne's child lived, I'd say the most likely candidate would be Allyria Dayne. I repeat IF.

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Thanks for your comments guys :)

I admit that the Daenarys link was a bit of a stretch and as Vaedys points out, the timeline doesn't fit. I guess I was swayed by Barristan saying Daenarys looked like Ashara ... far too obvious for GRRM lol.

FYI I have seen another theory on the net about who Ashara's daughter could be (IF she survived) and that is .... Val (the Wildling Princess). In this instance however Ned is cited as the father. The description of Val in the books describes her as being very beautiful (similar to Ashara) with sharp features and grey eyes that appear to change shade (similar to Ned). Also she is well spoken compared to other buildings .... this could also tie in nicely with the Mance is Arthur Dayne theory.

Thanks again for your comments, it's great to hear the views of others :)

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10 hours ago, Cridefea said:

Welcome Scotty!! :D

I'm not so well versed in Ashara, even if I find her story really intriguing. Expecially the end (what do you think about it?)

However I've read some theories about Daeny as Ashara's daughter, but I am not so keen. But I've never read anything about Aerys/Ashara's rapist and I find it interesting, really credible.

 

If I remember well @Lady Blizzardborn talked about it in another thread, maybe she is more expert than me

I don't recall doing much talking about Aerys being a possible father, other than the fact that she absolutely could not go to anyone on the Kingsguard if that was the case. From what we know, Aerys seems to have remained faithful to Rhaella after Prince Jaehaerys' death.

Rhaegar, trying for that third head of the dragon, is a possibility. And if the conception occurred at Harrenhal we've also got three notorious hound dogs in attendance: Brandon Stark; Robert Baratheon; Oberyn Martell. If Ashara really did have a child, and if the child was conceived at Harrenhal, chances are the father was someone mentioned in the story Meera tells Bran.

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On 7/4/2017 at 2:23 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I don't recall doing much talking about Aerys being a possible father, other than the fact that she absolutely could not go to anyone on the Kingsguard if that was the case. From what we know, Aerys seems to have remained faithful to Rhaella after Prince Jaehaerys' death.

No, I mean about Ashara, in general.

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On 6/4/2017 at 11:49 PM, Scotty Blackfyre said:

FYI I have seen another theory on the net about who Ashara's daughter could be (IF she survived) and that is .... Val (the Wildling Princess). In this instance however Ned is cited as the father. The description of Val in the books describes her as being very beautiful (similar to Ashara) with sharp features and grey eyes that appear to change shade (similar to Ned). Also she is well spoken compared to other buildings .... this could also tie in nicely with the Mance is Arthur Dayne theory.

I don't think that it makes sense. There is no reason for Ashara's daughter to be raised as a Free Folk. In fact it doesn't make sense why Ashara's daughter had to be raised outside Dorne.

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In order to conceal Jon's true parentage Ned and Ashara's daughter (Val) would also have to be concealed and the best way to do this would be for her to disappear from Westeros ... why not North of the Wall? If Arthur accompanied her then they would have to go somewhere remote in order for him not to be recognised. Remember Arthur is something of a celebrity at this time, if they went to Essos they could still be recognised.

Another point I've often puzzled over is why Benjen joined the Nights Watch. After the Rebellion Ned and Benjen (and baby Robb) were the only Starks left, it seems odd that Benjen should take a vow to never have a wife and children when the Starks are so few on the ground?  

It would make sense however if there was something else motivating his decision. Maybe Benjen joined the Nights Watch to help support and protect Ned and Ashara's daughter North of the Wall. Maybe Ned asked him to do it?

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On 4/6/2017 at 4:49 PM, Scotty Blackfyre said:

Thanks for your comments guys :)

I admit that the Daenarys link was a bit of a stretch and as Vaedys points out, the timeline doesn't fit. I guess I was swayed by Barristan saying Daenarys looked like Ashara ... far too obvious for GRRM lol.

FYI I have seen another theory on the net about who Ashara's daughter could be (IF she survived) and that is .... Val (the Wildling Princess). In this instance however Ned is cited as the father. The description of Val in the books describes her as being very beautiful (similar to Ashara) with sharp features and grey eyes that appear to change shade (similar to Ned). Also she is well spoken compared to other buildings .... this could also tie in nicely with the Mance is Arthur Dayne theory.

Thanks again for your comments, it's great to hear the views of others :)

This sounds like the youtube video from the Order of the Greenhands. If it is, or based on that, then I can say without a doubt, no. I watched that video yesterday and about broke my neck with the inaccurate info they had wrong.

One of the main things that is not correct is what you mentioned with the eye color changing for both Ned and Val. They tried to use a quote by Catelyn where she was looking at Ned's bones and reminiscing about how his eyes were "fog grey" and then "stone grey". What they were totally missing, or intentionally fudging, is the fact that this is describing emotion, mood, and personality in this scene. It was not that Ned's eye literally changed color.

Now, Jon does describe Val's eye color as first grey, then blue, and this is most likely for reasons that are definitely not linked to Ned's eyes sometimes being "soft" and sometimes "hard".

Also, Ashara had dark/black hair, and Ned had brown hair, so where would Val's (important) honey colored hair come from?

Also, several people have high, sharp cheekbones. Sansa, Jason Mallister, Nymeria Martell. If I were to guess at who could be Val's father, I would say that it could be Jason Mallister just based on looks, and maybe a few personality things:

  • Jason Mallister rose to offer Catelyn his seat. His hair had almost as much white in it as brown, but the Lord of Seagard was still a handsome man; tall and lean, with a chiseled clean-shaven face, high cheekbones, and fierce blue-grey eyes. "Lady Stark, it is ever a pleasure. I bring good tidings, I hope."

Also, if I remember correctly, that video claims Val and Jon are the same age. That is also incorrect. We are never given Val's actual age, but there is a chance that she is maybe around 20. I am looking for the quote that explains this, but Ygritte is 19 and Val was described as being a year older than Ygritte (or something... still looking).

Val is Val, sister to Dalla, and this was done for very important reasons. Too many reasons to list as one post here without seeming weird and taking up a lot of space.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/11/2017 at 10:14 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

This sounds like the youtube video from the Order of the Greenhands. If it is, or based on that, then I can say without a doubt, no. I watched that video yesterday and about broke my neck with the inaccurate info they had wrong.

One of the main things that is not correct is what you mentioned with the eye color changing for both Ned and Val. They tried to use a quote by Catelyn where she was looking at Ned's bones and reminiscing about how his eyes were "fog grey" and then "stone grey". What they were totally missing, or intentionally fudging, is the fact that this is describing emotion, mood, and personality in this scene. It was not that Ned's eye literally changed color.

Now, Jon does describe Val's eye color as first grey, then blue, and this is most likely for reasons that are definitely not linked to Ned's eyes sometimes being "soft" and sometimes "hard".

Also, Ashara had dark/black hair, and Ned had brown hair, so where would Val's (important) honey colored hair come from?

Also, several people have high, sharp cheekbones. Sansa, Jason Mallister, Nymeria Martell. If I were to guess at who could be Val's father, I would say that it could be Jason Mallister just based on looks, and maybe a few personality things:

  • Jason Mallister rose to offer Catelyn his seat. His hair had almost as much white in it as brown, but the Lord of Seagard was still a handsome man; tall and lean, with a chiseled clean-shaven face, high cheekbones, and fierce blue-grey eyes. "Lady Stark, it is ever a pleasure. I bring good tidings, I hope."

Also, if I remember correctly, that video claims Val and Jon are the same age. That is also incorrect. We are never given Val's actual age, but there is a chance that she is maybe around 20. I am looking for the quote that explains this, but Ygritte is 19 and Val was described as being a year older than Ygritte (or something... still looking).

Val is Val, sister to Dalla, and this was done for very important reasons. Too many reasons to list as one post here without seeming weird and taking up a lot of space.

@Lord Wraith I did address the Val portion of the video with a little more detail here in this thread. That part of the video just came way out of left field for me. 

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3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@Lord Wraith I did address the Val portion of the video with a little more detail here in this thread. That part of the video just came way out of left field for me. 

Cheers. They have some interesting notions in their videos and some insane ones.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Cheers. They have some interesting notions in their videos and some insane ones.

I will say that I never rooted for the fisherman's daughter to be Jon's mother ever, but they did put forth an interesting notion (if rather unlikely). 

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1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I will say that I never rooted for the fisherman's daughter to be Jon's mother ever, but they did put forth an interesting notion (if rather unlikely). 

I think the whole Ashara being the Fisherman's daughter is fairly compelling.

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