The Second Dance of Dragons - A Different Thought

[Maxxine]

So apparently GRRM has said there is going to be second Dance of Dragons. This has led a lot of people to believe that Second Dance will be between Aegon and Dany and that Aegon will somehow get a dragon, etc. While this is a completely reasonable expectation considering they are both Targs who want the IT and the green and black dragons that are available,  I thought of another theory that I think is plausible as well. Maybe when GRRM said Second Dance he didn't mean literally, as in it would involve Targ vs. Targ and dragons but perhaps just similar circumstances. 

Imo there is a clear Cersei/Rhaenyra parallel. Cersei is a queen that has cuckolded her husband and had three children that are very obviously not her husbands (at least based how the folks in Westeros figure out paternity). There are constant whispers about the paternity of Cersei's children as there was with Rhaenyra, but they both had a powerful fathers who either was unaware of the children's potential paternity or just choose to ignore it; either way the father's power was able to protect Cersei/Rhaenyra from the whispers until they died. Once the father died though they were both unprotected and had to rule themselves and both failed (albeit for different reasons).Rhaenyra did sit the IT for half a year and I think it's likely that Cersei will sit the IT once Tommen dies. So it's very possible Cersei is playing the role of Rhaenyra this time around.

I think Aegon could play the part of Aegon II. He is a usurper claiming the IT is rightfully his even though he has no actual right to it (this rest on Aegon being a Blackfyre, which I believe he is). And Jaime could play the role of Criston Cole. There have been many theories that believe Jaime will be the new Kingmaker. If he is very disillusioned with Cersei and see that she won't listen to reason it wouldn't shock me if he helps someone who seemingly is better for the realm. It's rumored Cole was a former lover of Rhaenyra, but turned on her so another potential parallel.

I recognize one of the biggest issues with this theory is 

Spoiler

the TWOW chapter when the little girl has the dream about dragons dancing and people dying. This may indicate more than anything that it's going to at the very least real Targs and may be actual  dragons.

But something has always been lacking with Dany and Aegon fighting each other to me. 1) It would be stupid (not that characters in these books are known for being smart), but it's obvious especially if Dany believes Aegon is Targ, that they should work together. 2) Assuming there are going to be only two more books, where is there going to be time for Dany and Aegon to fight. Dany still has to get to Westeros and considering where she is,  I think it would take her until the end of Winds, the Lannisters need to be overthrown, and the Others have to be handled. 3) Considering all of dragons and Targs that were involved in the first Dance, having only two Targs and three dragons in the Second seems weak and actually laughable considering the epicness (I don't think that's a word) of the first Dance.

So this is my shot at coming up with an alternate theory concerning the Second Dance. Let me know your thoughts! I'm sure a million holes will be poked in it, but I do think it's plausible and not complete crackpot.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

That's an interesting idea. GRRM did say the Second Dance wouldn't necessarily be Dany's invasion of Westeros. 

However, unless we get textual proof that Cersei is a Targaryen (or half-Targ) I'm not sure she would count, no matter the Rhaenyra parallels. And remember that Rhaenyra had a legitimate claim to the throne, where Cersei does not.

As to potential weakness of Second Dance, remember we could have dragonriders die and need to be replaced by dragonseeds. Gendry would make a lovely Hugh Hammer parallel, hopefully without the vile betrayal bit.

At the moment I'm more worried about Euron getting his hands on a dragon, or the Others (if Summer saw a dragon at Winterfell), than anything to do with Cersei.

[Roswell]

21 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

So apparently GRRM has said there is going to be second Dance of Dragons. This has led a lot of people to believe that Second Dance will be between Aegon and Dany and that Aegon will somehow get a dragon, etc. While this is a completely reasonable expectation considering they are both Targs who want the IT and the green and black dragons that are available,  I thought of another theory that I think is plausible as well. Maybe when GRRM said Second Dance he didn't mean literally, as in it would involve Targ vs. Targ and dragons but perhaps just similar circumstances. 

Imo there is a clear Cersei/Rhaenyra parallel. Cersei is a queen that has cuckolded her husband and had three children that are very obviously not her husbands (at least based how the folks in Westeros figure out paternity). There are constant whispers about the paternity of Cersei's children as there was with Rhaenyra, but they both had a powerful fathers who either was unaware of the children's potential paternity or just choose to ignore it; either way the father's power was able to protect Cersei/Rhaenyra from the whispers until they died. Once the father died though they were both unprotected and had to rule themselves and both failed (albeit for different reasons).Rhaenyra did sit the IT for half a year and I think it's likely that Cersei will sit the IT once Tommen dies. So it's very possible Cersei is playing the role of Rhaenyra this time around.

I think Aegon could play the part of Aegon II. He is a usurper claiming the IT is rightfully his even though he has no actual right to it (this rest on Aegon being a Blackfyre, which I believe he is). And Jaime could play the role of Criston Cole. There have been many theories that believe Jaime will be the new Kingmaker. If he is very disillusioned with Cersei and see that she won't listen to reason it wouldn't shock me if he helps someone who seemingly is better for the realm. It's rumored Cole was a former lover of Rhaenyra, but turned on her so another potential parallel.

I recognize one of the biggest issues with this theory is 

  Hide contents

the TWOW chapter when the little girl has the dream about dragons dancing and people dying. This may indicate more than anything that it's going to at the very least real Targs and may be actual  dragons.

But something has always been lacking with Dany and Aegon fighting each other to me. 1) It would be stupid (not that characters in these books are known for being smart), but it's obvious especially if Dany believes Aegon is Targ, that they should work together. 2) Assuming there are going to be only two more books, where is there going to be time for Dany and Aegon to fight. Dany still has to get to Westeros and considering where she is,  I think it would take her until the end of Winds, the Lannisters need to be overthrown, and the Others have to be handled. 3) Considering all of dragons and Targs that were involved in the first Dance, having only two Targs and three dragons in the Second seems weak and actually laughable considering the epicness (I don't think that's a word) of the first Dance.

So this is my shot at coming up with an alternate theory concerning the Second Dance. Let me know your thoughts! I'm sure a million holes will be poked in it, but I do think it's plausible and not complete crackpot.

We need a link to that source.  Can you provide a link to where George said this? 

[Therae]

This is a really interesting idea! However, as @Lady Blizzardborn noted, the Rhaenyra-Cersei parallel is complicated by Cersei having absolutely no claim to the Iron Throne.

10 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

But something has always been lacking with Dany and Aegon fighting each other to me. 1) It would be stupid (not that characters in these books are known for being smart), but it's obvious especially if Dany believes Aegon is Targ, that they should work together. 2) Assuming there are going to be only two more books, where is there going to be time for Dany and Aegon to fight. Dany still has to get to Westeros and considering where she is,  I think it would take her until the end of Winds, the Lannisters need to be overthrown, and the Others have to be handled. 3) Considering all of dragons and Targs that were involved in the first Dance, having only two Targs and three dragons in the Second seems weak and actually laughable considering the epicness (I don't think that's a word) of the first Dance.

Regarding your 1. - I wonder about this. Only one IT, only one regnant monarch. I don't feel like either Dany or Aegon will really be inclined to just step down for the other--arguments can be made in favor of either of them (provided Aegon is real, or at least assumed to be so) rightful heir status, and, when the time comes, both of them may feel like they did all the important conquering. Absolute power has a way of making enemies out of natural allies.

About 2. - I wonder about this, as well. From what I have seen on the boards, it seems that it's the common expectation that Dany will be recruiting the Dothraki and fighting to end slavery throughout Essos before she goes home. The latter in particular would take at least the next book to achieve (and frankly I think that's optimistic). It's totally tinfoil, but I think what might happen to get her the heck out of Essos already is that the Dothraki are not so much going to follow her as chase her right back to Meereen, where she will have to choose between a long-term war with the slavers (reinvigorated by the mobilization of the Dothraki against Dany), or taking her dragons, her Unsullied, and any of the sellsword companies that are on her side, and hitching a ride west on Victarian's ships stat.

I repeat, it's totally tinfoil, but at least it could reasonably get her on the way in the first quarter of WoW. From there, there are several opportunities for DoD2.0 with several possible opponents.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I forgot to say I do think it's possible, and it would be a good twist.

[Maxxine]

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

That's an interesting idea. GRRM did say the Second Dance wouldn't necessarily be Dany's invasion of Westeros. 

However, unless we get textual proof that Cersei is a Targaryen (or half-Targ) I'm not sure she would count, no matter the Rhaenyra parallels. And remember that Rhaenyra had a legitimate claim to the throne, where Cersei does not.

As to potential weakness of Second Dance, remember we could have dragonriders die and need to be replaced by dragonseeds. Gendry would make a lovely Hugh Hammer parallel, hopefully without the vile betrayal bit.

At the moment I'm more worried about Euron getting his hands on a dragon, or the Others (if Summer saw a dragon at Winterfell), than anything to do with Cersei.

I don't think this idea rests on Cersei being Targ. I really hope it doesn't considering I'm not a fan of that theory. I think it's okay for a character to repeat  Targ history without being a Targ. In fact, GRRM has done that already with Robb (who no one would argue is a Targ) who repeats Daeron I. Rides south, wins all his battles but still loses the war & dies bc of a violation of guest right. And yeah Rhaenyra-Cersei parallel is not perfect but it doesn't necessarily have to be exact. Using the Robb-Daeron as an example again, Daeron's didn't necessarily lose bc of political mistakes nor did one of his own men betray but the parallel still works. It's true she doesn't have a legitimate legal claim through blood but she may be the one who holds the IT was Aegon comes calling.

I could see a second dragon seed issue becoming a thing (though if there is one I would think it would be Aurane Waters instead of Gendry) but there's still presumably only 3 dragons and Dany & Aegon would probably be riding two so that only leaves one dragon seed at issue. Very possible of course. 

 

[Lady Topspin]

1 hour ago, Maxxine said:

So apparently GRRM has said there is going to be second Dance of Dragons.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

the TWOW chapter when the little girl has the dream about dragons dancing and people dying. This may indicate more than anything that it's going to at the very least real Targs and may be actual  dragons.

I don't recall George saying that.  I keep up with his blog regularly.  When did he say this? 

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

I'm not a fan of the 2nd dance so I could totally back this theory. I honestly believe that GRRM said that there was two before he realized the scope of it and it was "pruned" as he calls himself a "Gardner Type" writer. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

15 hours ago, Gabbie Roxas said:

I don't recall George saying that.  I keep up with his blog regularly.  When did he say this? 

There's an SSM where he says that the Second Dance will not necessarily be Dany's invasion of Westeros, which implies the following: 1) there will be a Second Dance, and 2) Dany will finally get herself to Westeros.

Also in one of the spoiler chapters for TWOW...

Spoiler

there's a girl who dreams of dragons dancing, and everywhere the dragons dance, people die.

 

[PCK]

Aegon & Daenerys initially teaming up to fight Cersei & Euron isn't a horrible idea. In fact, in some ways it actually makes sense.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

19 hours ago, The Great and Mighty Poo said:

I'm not a fan of the 2nd dance so I could totally back this theory. I honestly believe that GRRM said that there was two before he realized the scope of it and it was "pruned" as he calls himself a "Gardner Type" writer. 

Agreed - the only way I see a 2nd dance happening in 2 books is if Jon/Stannis/etc are fighting the Others in the north parallel to the 2nd dance happening in Westeros and the bittersweet ending is these northerners who just saved the realm having to submit to ignorant these southern politicians and kings who continue to play their game of thrones unawares to the threats that face a divided humanity.  I actually think the war for dawn might be what gets Dany to Westeros (Jon calls for help and she answers) while Aegon/Cersei/Euron fight for the IT, then Dany deals with Aegon and a ravaged Kings Landing in the last half of ADOS after the Others have been defeated.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

44 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Agreed - the only way I see a 2nd dance happening in 2 books is if Jon/Stannis/etc are fighting the Others in the north parallel to the 2nd dance happening in Westeros and the bittersweet ending is these northerners who just saved the realm having to submit to ignorant these southern politicians and kings who continue to play their game of thrones unawares to the threats that face a divided humanity.  I actually think the war for dawn might be what gets Dany to Westeros (Jon calls for help and she answers) while Aegon/Cersei/Euron fight for the IT, then Dany deals with Aegon and a ravaged Kings Landing in the last half of ADOS after the Others have been defeated.

I don't like this ending. And it wouldn't be good at all. The best ending would be daenerys fighting the others and dying as she protects the kingdom. This could be our bittersweet ending. The death of daenerys or Jon (again).

[Lucius Lovejoy]

Just now, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I don't like this ending. And it wouldn't be good at all. The best ending would be daenerys fighting the others and dying as she protects the kingdom. This could be our bittersweet ending. The death of daenerys or Jon (again).

I don't like that ending either.  To be honest, I don't like the introduction of Aegon in ADWD at all.  It's just too much plot expansion when I'm ready for narrowing back down.  But I'm trying to figure out how this gets settled in 2 books and I can't see Dany dealing with Aegon first.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

Just now, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I don't like that ending either.  To be honest, I don't like the introduction of Aegon in ADWD at all.  It's just too much plot expansion when I'm ready for narrowing back down.  But I'm trying to figure out how this gets settled in 2 books and I can't see Dany dealing with Aegon first.

She don't need to "deal" with him. He's just there. They actually could be allies. He could secure the IT from Euron and Cersei as she helps the North from the others.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

3 hours ago, PCK said:

Aegon & Daenerys initially teaming up to fight Cersei & Euron isn't a horrible idea. In fact, in some ways it actually makes sense.

And it adds something to the whole Maggy the Frog bit because Cersei, who has three children, might marry the king (Euron) but have no children with him, and be strangled to death by the valonqar (Victarion, who has a history of strangling women who sleep with his big brother) because of his allegiance to the YMBQ (Dany).

 

[Maxxine]

On 4/6/2017 at 9:05 PM, Therae said:

This is a really interesting idea! However, as @Lady Blizzardborn noted, the Rhaenyra-Cersei parallel is complicated by Cersei having absolutely no claim to the Iron Throne.

Regarding your 1. - I wonder about this. Only one IT, only one regnant monarch. I don't feel like either Dany or Aegon will really be inclined to just step down for the other--arguments can be made in favor of either of them (provided Aegon is real, or at least assumed to be so) rightful heir status, and, when the time comes, both of them may feel like they did all the important conquering. Absolute power has a way of making enemies out of natural allies.

 

I get your point and I think if aegon and dany do oppose each other that would be the reason why. Both of them would have too much pride and ego to let the other one "win." But if they are both Targs then it's best for the family to work together against all their enemies including the Others instead of fighting each other, which is stupid. Just as it was stupid when Renly and Stannis did it. Even though I would understand why they would and almost actually expect it assuming the Second Dance does involve them, I just don't like the idea of such stupidity.  

[J. Stargaryen]

I think GRRM's plan is a Dance of the Dragons which doubles as a Blackfyre Rebellion.