Basement-dwellers, Hotel Mama, Mammismo – Society’s negative view on living with your parents and where it comes from

[DunderMifflin]

I think in the western world there seems to be an unspoken understanding that what we consider childhood is really extending much longer than it once did. Longer than age 18.

My mom had me when she was 13, my dad owned brand new cars at 16, bought a house at 18. Back then there wasn't much special about either of them. But for them  to be doing those same things today would be seen as much more abnormal than they were 40 years ago

And they were still considered of lower class while doing all this. The higher class was off to college. Or somehow benefiting from the social and economic standing of their parents.

 

Sort of off topic but not really. My parents say sometime in the 60s there was a shift in how city life was seen as opposed to suburban or rural. It became cool and hip to live in the city, before that people only wanted to be in the city because that's where the jobs were. And people dreamed of moving out of the city and commute to work. The idea was like "fuck that I don't want to live in this dirty, polluted and miserable place. Then the arts scenes and the parties of the city kind of got the cool kids wanting to live in the city.

[Theda Baratheon]

3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Personally, I don't have a negative opinion of other people who live with their parents (perhaps because my uncle never moved out of my grandparents house, although that was in part due to his having to care for them because of illnesses). But when it comes to my own situation the idea of having to move back home after university puts me down. I feel like if I don't get myself a job where I can support myself immediately I've wasted the last 3 years of my life and tens of thousands of pound for nothing. Part of me realises this is unreasonable of me but I can't help it. I don't think it helps that I come from a household where no one has gone to university before. My family are incredibly proud of me for taking this route but I (again irrationally) feel like I will be affirming to them that university isn't for people like us.

I also hate my home town and many of the people who live there, and it's full of unpleasant memories for me. I really dread the thought of having to go back

I tooooootally understand you - I'm the first person in my family (other than my aunty) to go to university and my parents were so proud of me for it and I just want to make them proud and be accomplished and successful but my sister failed college and then stumbled into a great bank job that she is fantastic at and is working her way up, moved out and is now living with a boyfriend and she's my YOUNGER sister! I feel so bad in comparison even tho my parents are still proud of me and think I'm way smarter than I actually am 

[Rorshach]

I went to boarding school at the age of 16. Haven't lived at home since. It just never looked like an attractive proposition (seeing as my mother and I can both be ... willful, and holidays is basically the period we can live under the same roof without starting an uninteresting quarrel).

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

 

I have a very good, but not perfect* relationship with my parents, but I was pretty miserable living with them for the first year or so after college, when I was unemployed. How much of that was from being unemployed, and how much actually from living under my parents roof, I don't know.

Maybe I would have been quite happy living at home even if I had a an hour or so commute to the nearest major city.

 

* then again, who's relationship is perfect?

20 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

My mom had me when she was 13, my dad owned brand new cars at 16, bought a house at 18. Back then there wasn't much special about either of them. But for them  to be doing those same things today would be seen as much more abnormal than they were 40 years ago

???? What country are you from, and how old are you?

[DunderMifflin]

37 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

 

???? What country are you from, and how old are you?

40 and this was the rural south (usa) 40 years ago.

[Dr. Pepper]

21 hours ago, DunderMifflin said:

Sort of off topic but not really. My parents say sometime in the 60s there was a shift in how city life was seen as opposed to suburban or rural. It became cool and hip to live in the city, before that people only wanted to be in the city because that's where the jobs were. And people dreamed of moving out of the city and commute to work. The idea was like "fuck that I don't want to live in this dirty, polluted and miserable place. Then the arts scenes and the parties of the city kind of got the cool kids wanting to live in the city.

It might have more to do with regulations making cities cleaner, less polluted and safer than they were 40 years ago.  Changing economic realities also have quite a bit to do with it.  The "arts scenes and the parties" are merely bonuses, but certainly not driving factors. 

[Theda Baratheon]

Living in a rural area is boring as hell anyway it's beautiful but I can't wait to get out 

[HexMachina]

Finding work in a rural area is also pretty dire if you can't drive. Public transport is I frequent and not always reliable so you are limited with jobs. 

(This doesn't actually apply to my parents house, which is on the urban-rural fringe and conveniently located on a good transport route to three different cities. But my grandparents did live in a very rural area and jobs were limited to what was in their small village unless you were able to travel out).

Also what Theda said about being boring. It's nice for dog walking and not a lot else. 

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm about to move to a rural area just for the dog walking alone.  lol

[Datepalm]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

It might have more to do with regulations making cities cleaner, less polluted and safer than they were 40 years ago.  Changing economic realities also have quite a bit to do with it.  The "arts scenes and the parties" are merely bonuses, but certainly not driving factors. 

Depends on who you ask...one strand of thought has it that the culture, parties, space for hobbies and general coolness ("amenities") is what drives economic growth in cities, not the other way around. (Creative Class theory, Buzz Cities, dire misreadings of Jane Jacobs, etc.) This strand is probably wrong, but a lot of municipal administrations really like it.

[DunderMifflin]

Old American cities still aren't all that clean. Parts of NYC and LA are just unfathomably filthy. Real life Flea Bottoms.

[Theda Baratheon]

2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Finding work in a rural area is also pretty dire if you can't drive. Public transport is I frequent and not always reliable so you are limited with jobs. 

(This doesn't actually apply to my parents house, which is on the urban-rural fringe and conveniently located on a good transport route to three different cities. But my grandparents did live in a very rural area and jobs were limited to what was in their small village unless you were able to travel out).

Also what Theda said about being boring. It's nice for dog walking and not a lot else. 

I'm in a town but the town is still in cornwall lol and I have to walk hlf an hour to the train station which at least let's me LEAVE every now and again haha 

Its great for dog walking tho 

 

[S John]

16 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I'm in a town but the town is still in cornwall lol and I have to walk hlf an hour to the train station which at least let's me LEAVE every now and again haha 

Its great for dog walking tho 

 

Oh yea, from the perspective of this American, y'all don't know how lucky you've got it in the rural UK!  The fact that most UK towns and villages predate the automobile means they usually have some kind of central area for shopping and community gathering that isn't too far and they often have a nearby train connecting you to the rest of the country.  There's also almost always a decent pub or two.  I saw some pretty tiny villages last time I was there where you could basically live in the middle of nowhere, yet hop on a train and find yourself in London in just a few hours.  Personally, I would love that arrangement and I'm jealous that it's not uncommon there.  

The size of the US and the fact that much of the infrastructure was built around the automobile, to the detriment of things like having a functional nation-wide rail network, means that living in the rural US can be pretty isolated indeed.  

 

 

 

[Theda Baratheon]

23 minutes ago, S John said:

Oh yea, from the perspective of this American, y'all don't know how lucky you've got it in the rural UK!  The fact that most UK towns and villages predate the automobile means they usually have some kind of central area for shopping and community gathering that isn't too far and they often have a nearby train connecting you to the rest of the country.  There's also almost always a decent pub or two.  I saw some pretty tiny villages last time I was there where you could basically live in the middle of nowhere, yet hop on a train and find yourself in London in just a few hours.  Personally, I would love that arrangement and I'm jealous that it's not uncommon there.  

The size of the US and the fact that much of the infrastructure was built around the automobile, to the detriment of things like having a functional nation-wide rail network, means that living in the rural US can be pretty isolated indeed.  

 

 

 

Oh yeah I like that about the UK as well - I like that it only takes me a few hours to visit family in Wales - and you don't have to travel very far until you're in a town city or if you live in the city you don't have to travel long until you're in some beautiful area of the country. I think I'll be so happy when I've learnt to drive -  i love walking but in an area like this it can be isolating sometimes - starting this month and can't wait 

[naz]

Sorry for the minor thread necromancy.

As with most things in life, I firmly believe this is a problem that can be (partly) solved with architecture and urban design. For both the dilemma(s) arising from the global evolution of the nuclear family, as well as the related stigma mentioned in the OP. I've spend a good portion of my career in practice as well as education thinking about housing (mostly urban), and how design innovation can be used to make better housing for what I consider to be a decades-long global cultural flux in the way families live.

Example: The mother-daughter house and it's modern counterparts - the duplex, the separate entry, the communal home, etc. There are lots of ways that architects can tackle the problem of how to live more economically and efficiently in (what they call in this part of the world) joint family setups where some activities can be communal and others private. Until recently, this was only really evident in the aforementioned mother-daughter house (a US-only nomenclature, as far as I know), which was almost a purely suburban or exurban phenomenon, but now people are considering different types of housing strategies, even in urban areas, to reflect the entire spectrum of how families live in the modern world.

[Ice Queen]

On 4/11/2017 at 2:17 PM, DunderMifflin said:

I think in the western world there seems to be an unspoken understanding that what we consider childhood is really extending much longer than it once did. Longer than age 18.

My mom had me when she was 13, my dad owned brand new cars at 16, bought a house at 18. Back then there wasn't much special about either of them. But for them  to be doing those same things today would be seen as much more abnormal than they were 40 years ago

And they were still considered of lower class while doing all this. The higher class was off to college. Or somehow benefiting from the social and economic standing of their parents.

 

Sort of off topic but not really. My parents say sometime in the 60s there was a shift in how city life was seen as opposed to suburban or rural. It became cool and hip to live in the city, before that people only wanted to be in the city because that's where the jobs were. And people dreamed of moving out of the city and commute to work. The idea was like "fuck that I don't want to live in this dirty, polluted and miserable place. Then the arts scenes and the parties of the city kind of got the cool kids wanting to live in the city.

Well, from the 50's through the 70's there was this thing called white flight, and a lot of people left for what are now the suburbs but were at that time the boonies or close to it. Desegregation of schools and the influx of minorities into traditionally white neighborhoods was something a lot of people at that time just couldn't deal with. Many of those who stayed resorted to violence to get the minorities out. Many suburban municipalities zoned their regions as such that poor whites and minorities were excluded from living there. 

There's a reason why very, very VERY few 18 year olds are buying their own homes and that's economic. Most of them are spending four plus years in college going into debt, not buying a house that costs an order of magnitude more than it did when we were kids. They can't afford to move out. 

I've made a deal with my kids, as much as I sometimes want them gone. As long as you're in school, I won't charge you rent. Once you graduate, you're welcome to live at home with conditions, one of them being rent and another being that I expect them to pay down their debt and save. Without telling them, I'm taking that rent and putting into separate accounts, so when the time comes to buy a home I'll give them their money back towards the down payment or closing costs. I've been doing this for my son and he has no clue. I'll do it for my daughter when she finishes. 

Just the other day, my daughter offered me rent money. Shocker. I turned her down, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to take $20 a month or something so she feels like she's contributing. 

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, Crazy Cat Lady in Training said:

Well, from the 50's through the 70's there was this thing called white flight, and a lot of people left for what are now the suburbs but were at that time the boonies or close to it. Desegregation of schools and the influx of minorities into traditionally white neighborhoods was something a lot of people at that time just couldn't deal with. Many of those who stayed resorted to violence to get the minorities out. Many suburban municipalities zoned their regions as such that poor whites and minorities were excluded from living there. 

There's a reason why very, very VERY few 18 year olds are buying their own homes and that's economic. Most of them are spending four plus years in college going into debt, not buying a house that costs an order of magnitude more than it did when we were kids. They can't afford to move out. 

I've made a deal with my kids, as much as I sometimes want them gone. As long as you're in school, I won't charge you rent. Once you graduate, you're welcome to live at home with conditions, one of them being rent and another being that I expect them to pay down their debt and save. Without telling them, I'm taking that rent and putting into separate accounts, so when the time comes to buy a home I'll give them their money back towards the down payment or closing costs. I've been doing this for my son and he has no clue. I'll do it for my daughter when she finishes. 

Just the other day, my daughter offered me rent money. Shocker. I turned her down, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to take $20 a month or something so she feels like she's contributing. 

I know a lot of people who pay their parents rent actually. Its kind of an important thing for a lot of people. When i go home for summer i generally dont pay rent (my parents wont take any from me), but i do a lot of stuff around e home, like DIY (painting, foxing the odd bits need fixing) cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, etc. I mean its stuff i would do anyway but doing it does make me feel less like I'm mooching off them and living rent free. 

[Iskaral Pust]

I lived with my parents throughout undergrad and commuted.  I didn't want to ask them to pay for separate accommodation for me, although my younger siblings all did (I guess the oldest is always the responsible one).  But after graduating from uni I got a job and moved out -- with a roommate initially -- and have been responsible for my own household ever since.  Entry level salaries aren't luxurious but it's possible to move out and be independent, it just usually requires a big drop in material comfort. 

My parents live in what was a rural area (now a suburb on the edge of a rural area) and I moved to the city for career and lifestyle opportunities.  Staying in a small town is a terrible way to waste your 20s.

The step from early renting to buying a home seems a lot tougher now.  People in their 20s have more student debt and home prices are a larger multiple of early salaries.  But in the US at least you can get FHA mortgages with as little as 3-5% down payment and if you lower your sights -- longer commute, iffy neighborhood, and/or small place -- you can get a starter home and get started on the property ladder without having to wait several years to accumulate a large down payment.  A lot of people don't want that trade-off, but there aren't many easy shortcuts to accumulating a decade or more of savings.  Renting or buying a less desirable home in order to save more and trade-up later is just a classic deferred gratification.

As to the social stigma, I think there's a wider acceptance now that student loans and house prices keep many young people living with their parents.  I hear from older colleagues with kids at home: some are glad to help, some are resigned that their help is needed, some are concerned that the kids aren't functioning as adults.  Every situation is different.  I imagine some of the stigma would be in the dating world, where living with parents would cramp relationships and perhaps also send signals about a momma's boy looking for a wife to take over the duty of looking after him.  But if it's becoming more common, then the stigma amongst peers would have to drop.  Stigma can only attach to outliers, not to plurality or majority. 

[Raja]

On 16/06/2017 at 7:35 PM, naz said:

e aforementioned mother-daughter house (a US-only nomenclature, as far as I know)

Definitely - I've never even heard of this!

I think it's pretty interesting to see the divide between North American/ European attitudes to living with your parents. In the middle east, it's almost unheard of to live away from your family through university/ getting your first job. I've got friends who are married and they live with their parents; that's definitely a cultural thing though . I think eventually they would still move out, but there's certainly not much of a stigma attached to it.

[Theda Baratheon]

I just want to move out of my parents house as soon as possible I really don't want to be living here any logger than necessary but there are NO FREAKIN JOBS ...though when I pass my driving test that opens up quite a few doors...