Ser Scot A Ellison

Overbooking, Flightcrew over paying passengers, the United incident

403 posts in this topic

So, is it time to make overbooking illegal, to say that, once boarded and seated (without more) a passenger may notbe removed from a flight?

Discuss.

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Yes.  I personally don't think it should have ever been legal in the first place.  Let's end the practice for hotels/resorts as well while we're at it... or any other service you pay for in advance.  To me, advance payment = guaranteed service, pending extreme/unusual circumstances such as weather, natural disasters, mechanical problems, etc.

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1 minute ago, Ded As Ned said:

Yes.  I personally don't think it should have ever been legal in the first place.  Let's end the practice for hotels/resorts as well while we're at it... or any other service you pay for in advance.  To me, advance payment = guaranteed service, pending extreme/unusual circumstances such as weather, natural disasters, mechanical problems, etc.

Agreed.

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Is it also true that they delayed the flight two hours solely so that the United crew could make the flight?  Wasting two plus hours of each passenger's time for their own convenience, there oughtta be a law against that too. 

My understanding is that United acted contrary to their own regulations in that they are trying to claim the right to deny boarding includes forced removal of properly boarded involuntary volunteers.

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8 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Is it also true that they delayed the flight two hours solely so that the United crew could make the flight?  Wasting two plus hours of each passenger's time for their own convenience, there oughtta be a law against that too. 

My understanding is that United acted contrary to their own regulations in that they are trying to claim the right to deny boarding includes forced removal of properly boarded involuntary volunteers.

They are claiming that the passenger involved was 'disruptive and belligerent' and appear to be trying to pin w/e blame accrues on an individual employee. Ie, typical corporate bullshit damage control.

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United sucks but this really beyond the pale.

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News coming out today that the guy they dragged off is a pretty scummy individual himself, so United has that going for them at least.

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I don't know if they should make kicking passengers off illegal, but they should definitely increase the mandatory compensation, so as to discourage overbooking, but make allowances for genuine emergencies.

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4 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

News coming out today that the guy they dragged off is a pretty scummy individual himself, so United has that going for them at least.

What are you hearing?  Do you have a link?

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2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What are you hearing?  Do you have a link?

Sure thing. Here is the story in the Courier Journal today. And here is a link to a story from when it all happened years ago, including how he wrote prescriptions in exchange for sex.

Now, I'm not saying any of this makes what happened to him okay in any shape or form, but it is an interesting wrinkle to the overall narrative. 

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13 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

They are claiming that the passenger involved was 'disruptive and belligerent' and appear to be trying to pin w/e blame accrues on an individual employee. Ie, typical corporate bullshit damage control.

Of course, he was "disruptive and belligerent" for refusing to comply:rolleyes:  It's exactly like someone who dares to assert their rights to police are "resisting arrest" or "obstructing a police officer" or some other bullshit. 

9 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

News coming out today that the guy they dragged off is a pretty scummy individual himself, so United has that going for them at least.

Ah, so United's already trying to get out in front of the inevitable hefty payout they'll be making to this guy.  His background or character matters not one whit in this case but they'll do everything they can to destroy it in any case.  Leverage, yo!:rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

Now, I'm not saying any of this makes what happened to him okay in any shape or form, but it is an interesting wrinkle to the overall narrative. 

OK. In what way does it make for an interesting wrinkle if it doesn't justify what happened? What, then, is interesting about it?

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45 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

So, is it time to make overbooking illegal, to say that, once boarded and seated (without more) a passenger may notbe removed from a flight?

Discuss.

Certainly not.  What a strange and nonsensical reaction to this incident.

I suspect people calling for an end to overbooking would be the first to complain when fares rose as a result.

2 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Of course, he was "disruptive and belligerent" for refusing to comply:rolleyes:  It's exactly like someone who dares to assert their rights to police are "resisting arrest" or "obstructing a police officer" or some other bullshit. 

What rights did the passenger have in this situation that he was asserting by refusing to de board?

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Questions:

They apparently stopped at $800 and accommodations. Why not drive that higher until someone takes the bait? They must know that passengers have limited time, whether it be vacation time they are using, business meetings they need to get to, or patients to see because they are a doctor.  United's employees should not be considered more important than paying customers.

This took place at O'Hare, which is United's home hub. If they need to get crew to Louisville, why not fuel up a regional plane and get them there? 

Also, Louisville is about a 5 hour drive from O'Hare. Get the crew in a car and drive them there.  The chaos they caused trying to squeeze their crew onto a full flight was not worth that time.

The airline and the police are tone deaf.  It's like they never considered that a dozen people would film the incident and it would go viral instantly.  Corporations have to be smarter than that and United is about to realize that consumers still do have some power, no matter what the tiny print says.

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Posted (edited)

Wrong question.  I never said what you're saying I said in asking that question.  I'm saying that United is calling the passenger "disruptive and belligerent" when all he did was refuse to get off the plane is similar to how the police level all sorts of charges against people who don't immediately comply with them, etc.  

ETA: Actually, in reading my quote, I did say that.  Sorry.  But it's not what I meant.  Let me rephrase.  I should not have brought up rights at all. I really should have just kept it about "complying".  Again, sorry about that. 

ETA II: Hopefully, removing some stupidity.

Edited by Prince of the North

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15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What are you hearing?  Do you have a link?

Who cares?  Unless it's directly related to what led him being dragged off the plane, it has fuck all to do with anything.  This is the same type of shit that encourages people to minimize murders because they can say "see!  he had a criminal record so he probably deserved it!" even if neither thing is related.  You're better than this.

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4 minutes ago, mormont said:

OK. In what way does it make for an interesting wrinkle if it doesn't justify what happened? What, then, is interesting about it?

The guy is in the best of lights, a drug dealer and at worst, a rapist. When I first saw the videos, I first had outrage against the company and individuals involved and sympathy for the man who was dragged off. And while I still am outraged at the actions of the company and those working on its behalf, if I'm being honest, I feel less sympathy for Dao.

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The problem with getting rid of overbooking is that it'll result in customers either facing much larger penalties for cancelling flights or significantly more expensive flights; and I'm not sure either trade-off there is worth it. Overbooking exists because lots of people end up cancelling flights, but those planes need to be a certain percent full to be operating at a profit.

There should be greater mandatory minimums to compensate volunteers to take later flights, including giving cash instead of those travel vouchers, but that's probably the only reform worthwhile.

In this particular case, there are already plenty of laws against physical assault. Its just an issue of making sure they are enforced.

 

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1 minute ago, Fez said:

The problem with getting rid of overbooking is that it'll result in customers either facing much larger penalties for cancelling flights or significantly more expensive flights; and I'm not sure either trade-off there is worth it. Overbooking exists because lots of people end up cancelling flights, but those planes need to be a certain percent full to be operating at a profit.

There should be greater mandatory minimums to compensate volunteers to take later flights, including giving cash instead of those travel vouchers, but that's probably the only reform worthwhile.

In this particular case, there are already plenty of laws against physical assault. Its just an issue of making sure they are enforced.

 

Yep.  Not much more to say here really. 

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Who cares?  Unless it's directly related to what led him being dragged off the plane, it has fuck all to do with anything.  This is the same type of shit that encourages people to minimize murders because they can say "see!  he had a criminal record so he probably deserved it!" even if neither thing is related.  You're better than this.

It wouldn't justify United.  I was simply curious.

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