Overbooking, Flightcrew over paying passengers, the United incident

[MisterOJ]

Just now, Robin Of House Hill said:

My bad.  Without visual or vocal cues, I have this annoying habit of expecting that people mean what they say.  

No problem. I get it. 

I'm going to have a more visceral reaction to this particular type of scumbag than most people. I understand that. Opioid addiction is probably the single biggest problem in my part of the U.S. It's affected my family in particular and family members I loved and cared about are now dead because of shitstain doctors like him. Add on the fact that he is also a rapist for all intents and purposes... yeah, screw him. It couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

BUT... that doesn't mean I think United and the police are absolved in any way because they roughed up a scumbag. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Regarding that stock price slide United is experiencing........I'm just imagining how United could have spent $1.5 billion in other ways and avoided this unwanted bad publicity?

Looks like they couldve bought a few shuttle planes exclusively for transporting their employees lolol. 

747 models and costs- 747-100: US$24 million (1967) 747-200: US$39 million (1976) 747-300: US$83 million (1982) 747-400: US$228–260 million (2007) 747-8I: US$351.4 million 747-8F: US$352 million

And still had money to boot, at least from where they are sitting today

[Swordfish]

1 minute ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Regarding that stock price slide United is experiencing........I'm just imagining how United could have spent $1.5 billion in other ways and avoided this unwanted bad publicity?

Seems like a really good time to buy stock in United.

 

ETA:

 

Ooops...  Too late.....

 

http://fortune.com/2017/04/12/united-airlines-stock/

 

Quote

By Wednesday morning, shares of United Continental Holdings (UAL, -0.59%) had largely recovered from the losses they suffered Tuesday following the high-profile incident. Shares opened .15% above the stock's Monday close — a day when United's stock rose even as anger over videos of the incident gained traction on social media across the world. At the time, angry web users had called for boycotts. Others were cutting up their United-branded credit cards. Eventually, United CEO Oscar Munoz apologized for a second time Tuesday for the forcible removal of a passenger from one of its planes a day earlier.

Wall Street analysts have warned over the past few days that no matter how viral or shocking, United's poor handling of the issue was unlikely to affect the company's bottom line. While social media users railed against United on Tuesday, most airline analysts didn't mention the incident in their commentaries released that day. That's because airlines have gone through a consolidation craze over the past few years, making United the best — if not the only — option for travelers in some areas.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

Except that, Dr. Dao has confirmed that he was the man dragged off the flight. 

I meant that last line somewhat sarcastically, mostly because I was pretty disgusted by all parties involved.

Yeah, I can relate to this reaction on some level. Dr. Dao's reaction strikes me as the sort of freakout I have to deal with on occasion at my work. It's basically a child in adult form that decides to bring the whole clinic to a screeching halt when they don't get what they want. It's not socially acceptable behavior. None of this lessens United's culpability here, but this sort of behavior drives me nuts. On one level, I'm glad that they didn't fold when faced with Mr. Dao's hysterics. That said, he didn't deserve the treatment that he received, and I suspect he will be paid nicely for that transgression.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Wow, you are going out of your way to offer apology for United.  United screwed up.  It may be an unanticipated result but United screwed up.  Both in the handling of "denial of boarding" (after the passenger was aboard) and in the follow up to the assault on their passenger.

Why is everyone so mad at United? It's the airport's security that really dropped the ball. 

[Kalbear]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Why is everyone so mad at United? It's the airport's security that really dropped the ball. 

Probably because unless United enforces this specific policy of theirs there wouldn't be any real issue. They chose to escalate it to this point. ETA: and then they chose to double down on the 'what we did wasn't wrong' for a whole day, until their stock dropped 1.5bn.

[James Arryn]

41 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I can relate to this reaction on some level. Dr. Dao's reaction strikes me as the sort of freakout I have to deal with on occasion at my work. It's basically a child in adult form that decides to bring the whole clinic to a screeching halt when they don't get what they want. It's not socially acceptable behavior. None of this lessens United's culpability here, but this sort of behavior drives me nuts. On one level, I'm glad that they didn't fold when faced with Mr. Dao's hysterics. That said, he didn't deserve the treatment that he received, and I suspect he will be paid nicely for that transgression.  

Gotta say, ME, this does it equate to not getting what he wants to me. This equates to being treated really crappily, objecting like a person would, and then being manhandled like a felon. I really don't understand the emphasis placed on the octave of his vocal reaction; people have different voices. I don't see anything he did wrong. Maybe he sounded different than you or I would while objecting, dunno...but that's not wrong.

[Rhom]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 0:05 PM, MisterOJ said:

Sure thing. Here is the story in the Courier Journal today. And here is a link to a story from when it all happened years ago, including how he wrote prescriptions in exchange for sex.

Now, I'm not saying any of this makes what happened to him okay in any shape or form, but it is an interesting wrinkle to the overall narrative. 

I looked for a thread on this on Monday and one didn't exist and now its made it multiple pages before I can chime in and proudly assert that Dr. Dao practices in my town!   

Yeah, he had a pretty shifty background; but we all knew that years ago and his license was renewed a couple years back.  Don't know him personally.  For the most part, he's a pretty nice guy according to a couple of shared patients I've talked to. 

Way to go E-town!   

[Dr. Pepper]

 

54 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I can relate to this reaction on some level. Dr. Dao's reaction strikes me as the sort of freakout I have to deal with on occasion at my work. It's basically a child in adult form that decides to bring the whole clinic to a screeching halt when they don't get what they want. It's not socially acceptable behavior. None of this lessens United's culpability here, but this sort of behavior drives me nuts. On one level, I'm glad that they didn't fold when faced with Mr. Dao's hysterics. That said, he didn't deserve the treatment that he received, and I suspect he will be paid nicely for that transgression.  

Maybe your work should stop assaulting people and then they'll stop bringing the clinic to a screeching halt.  

You've likened a victim to an animal, a child, and now suggest that it's somehow not acceptable to scream when being assaulted, not to mention you applaud cops who don't stop when they are injuring their victims.  

smh.  Although I obviously shouldn't be surprised considering.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, James Arryn said:

Gotta say, ME, this does it equate to not getting what he wants to me. This equates to being treated really crappily, objecting like a person would, and then being manhandled like a felon. I really don't understand the emphasis placed on the octave of his vocal reaction; people have different voices. I don't see anything he did wrong. Maybe he sounded different than you or I would while objecting, dunno...but that's not wrong.

Yeah, the timeline is really important as far as my reaction goes, I get that. I can completely understand him freaking out while being manhandled, for sure. There was a video I saw the morning after this occurred where Mr. Dao was laying across both (or perhaps 3?) seats. He was making that screamy noise while stating I'm not leaving over and over and there were 3 men in the aisle kind of hemming him in, but they were not touching him yet. I haven't been able to find that version of the video since, so perhaps I am recalling it poorly.  

 I'm probably relating this to my work experience a bit too much, but whenever I have to deal with these sorts of hysterics from an adult my first thought is often how old are you? Has this worked for you since you were say 5 years old? 

[Mudguard]

15 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This wasn't anything about the overall behavior, but specifically about what the victim sounded like when he was screaming under duress.  I think it's bizarre that several people are in agreement that it's ok to belittle a fear response by likening to both an animal and a toddler.  I also think it's bizarre that there are people who seem completely unaware that sounds differ by culture.  My voice and yes, even my screams would sound quite different if I were a Russian speaker, or a Mandarin speaker.  

Yup!

Sorry, I still don't hear it.  When I listen to that guy scream, I don't hear a Chinese sounding scream.  I've heard similar sounding screams in youtube videos of all sorts of people getting manhandled by police or security personnel.  You are telling me that you can listen to screams and identify the nationality or ethnicity of the screamer.  Right...

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

 

Maybe your work should stop assaulting people and then they'll stop bringing the clinic to a screeching halt.  

You've likened a victim to an animal, a child, and now suggest that it's somehow not acceptable to scream when being assaulted, not to mention you applaud cops who don't stop when they are injuring their victims.  

smh.  Although I obviously shouldn't be surprised considering.

Oh, I wouldn't bother working here if I couldn't assault people. That's half the fun. 

 

/I've worked here for 14 years plus, and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever been forcibly removed from the clinic.

[Dr. Pepper]

2 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Sorry, I still don't hear it.  When I listen to that guy scream, I don't hear a Chinese sounding scream.  I've heard similar sounding screams in youtube videos of all sorts of people getting manhandled by police or security personnel.  You are telling me that you can listen to screams and identify the nationality or ethnicity of the screamer.  Right...

Oh ffs. That was not at all what I said.  

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Oh, I wouldn't bother working here if I couldn't assault people. That's half the fun. 

 

/I've worked here for 14 years plus, and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever been forcibly removed from the clinic.

Then surely you realize it's not comparable, right? 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Then surely you realize it's not comparable, right? 

I've already expressed numerous times that once he's being manhandled (drug down the aisle, bleeding from the mouth) that his reaction at that point is understandable. It was my perception (which I've admitted may be flawed regarding the sequence of events) that he was making these noises prior to being manhandled. 

It's comparable in that these sorts of behaviors are not socially acceptable from an adult in public. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

I've already expressed numerous times that once he's being manhandled (drug down the aisle, bleeding from the mouth) that his reaction at that point is understandable. It was my perception (which I've admitted may be flawed regarding the sequence of events) that he was making these noises prior to being manhandled. 

It's comparable in that these sorts of behaviors are not socially acceptable from an adult in public. 

ME,

In every video I've seen he starts screaming when they grab him.  I have yet to see a video where he screams before being touched.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

ME,

In every video I've seen he starts screaming when they grab him.  I have yet to see a video where he screams before being touched.

Yeah, I have to admit that I have not been able to find the video that I intially reacted to. Odds are I am not recalling it accurately.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

No I'm not, but I'm also not used to seeing so called Liberals endorse shutting down Free Speech when it's speech they don't care for. That's about as illiberal an idea as one can hope to profess.

There is never a bad time to defend Free Speech. I couldn't disagree with that thought more profusely. Without Freedom of Speech, the rest of our rights are not worth a shit.

People who tend to lionize free speech as the most important of their rights are the ones who tend to have no idea about things like how important due process, right to trial, representation or discrimination are. I personally value getting not killed over being able to talk about whatever I choose; you feel differently. 

For example, in this topic: the person's right to not be reasonably assaulted is kind of a bigger deal than most of his rights, and the use or overuse of government force is kind of a big deal. This would be an incredibly stupid time to talk about the rights of corporations or applaud the use of state-sanctioned force. 

 

[James Arryn]

4 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

People who tend to lionize free speech as the most important of their rights are the ones who tend to have no idea about things like how important due process, right to trial, representation or discrimination are. I personally value getting not killed over being able to talk about whatever I choose; you feel differently. 

For example, in this topic: the person's right to not be reasonably assaulted is kind of a bigger deal than most of his rights, and the use or overuse of government force is kind of a big deal. This would be an incredibly stupid time to talk about the rights of corporations or applaud the use of state-sanctioned force. 

 

I'm really missing something here. I don't know the original discussion, just going on the posts about it here, but are you arguing that it's cool to react with violence to racist comments...in order to prevent violence? Doesn't this involve the idea of whether or not assaulting Nazis for saying Nazi stuff is ok, or was that just hyprbole?

I think punching Nazis is perfectly understandable, but can't be condoned just on the basis of their comments. There's just no way to limit that kind of dynamic to only people who say the 'wrong' things. 

[Datepalm]

Rarely used mod hat:

Enough with the Godwin and schoolyard hair pulling or I'll close the thread.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Datepalm said:

Rarely used mod hat:

Enough with the Godwin and schoolyard hair pulling or I'll close the thread.

Thank you ma'am.