Overbooking, Flightcrew over paying passengers, the United incident

[Dr. Pepper]

9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Swordfish,

But the word is never used in public praise.  No one ever says "that was a great escalation you had the other day." or "good job escalating that matter, Swordfish."  The word has a negative implication.

To be fair, I've heard it used that way before.  I'm sure many cops hear it after they've attacked a person for little reason.  "Excellent job escalating that confrontation with that child in the park, Officer.  It's too bad the kid is now dead, but he shouldn't have been playing with toys so it's his fault, really."

 

[Swordfish]

6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Give me an example of "escalate" being used in public as a means of praise.  Not internally, not in a memo in an office, someone from a public platform or with something intended to be read publicly praising an "escalation".

Um.  No, Scot.  I'm not going to do that.  That would be pointless.

Again, you're making a claim, back it up with something substantial, or admit you're wrong and move on.

Whether it's a means of praise is irrelevant.  That was not your claim.  your claim was that whenever it was used it was ALWAYS used to indicate that the person escalating was doing something wrong.

I'm not gonna keep playing the game where you ask me to provide something, I provide it, then you ignore it ask for something else.  That isn't how this works.  That's called 'moving the goalpost'.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Swordfish,

Look, I'm 46 years old and I've never heard a public pronouncement praising someone for "escalating" something.  I can see it in technical jargon... maybe.  But I've never seen a public official praising someone escalation before.

[Swordfish]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Swordfish,

Look, I'm 46 years old and I've never heard a public pronouncement praising someone for "escalating" something.  

I can't speak to what you have or have not heard.

I can only speak to the facts. The facts are not like Tinkerbell.  They do not require you to believe in them in order to exist.

 

Quote

I can see it in technical jargon... maybe.  

There is no maybe about it.  it's a thing that exists, and it happens all the time.  There are like, books about it and stuff.  You're inability (or more likely, unwillingness) to concede even when something is crystal clear and obviously objectively true is pretty telling here.

 

Quote

But I've never seen a public official praising someone escalation before.

Since when were we only talking about public officials?  Seriously, Scot...  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Swordfish,
 

Because we are speaking about the implication of the word when it is used by public officials or police.  "Escalation" is not used to imply someone did something right.  When they say "Mr. Dao escalated the situation by refusing to comply with officers instructions" that isn't saying he was justified in escalating the situation.  

Think about it like this... when was the last time you heard a public official or police officer say, "the suspect wasn't properly identified and his escalation and resistance were proper to the circumstances."?

[Swordfish]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Swordfish,
 

Because we are speaking about the implication of the word when it is used by public officials or police.  "Escalation" is not used to imply someone did something right.  When they say "Mr. Dao escalated the situation by refusing to comply with officers instructions" that isn't saying he was justified in escalating the situation.  

Think about it like this... when was the last time you heard a public official or police officer say, "the suspect wasn't properly identified and his escalation and resistance were proper to the circumstances."?

More goalpost moving.

I'm done here Scot, unless you have something of actual substance to add to the conversation.

[Maithanet]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Think about it like this... when was the last time you heard a public official or police officer say, "the suspect wasn't properly identified and his escalation and resistance were proper to the circumstances."?
 

Now we have to come up with a situation where a public official uses the word escalation specifically to admit guilt on the part of an arresting officer? 

Why don't you just ask for a picture of Swordfish holding a newspaper with Escalation in the headline, while riding a unicorn?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Now we have to come up with a situation where a public official uses the word escalation specifically to admit guilt on the part of an arresting officer? 

Why don't you just ask for a picture of Swordfish holding a newspaper with Escalation in the headline, while riding a unicorn?

Fair enough.  I just think there is a negative connotation to the word when it is used by public officals.  Its not a term of praise.  I'm not trying to move the goalposts and I do see where y'all are coming from.

[Altherion]

5 hours ago, Rorshach said:

Then my question is, I guess, how one should deal with protest. 

At this point, I'm wondering what the judgement would be if I, say, staged a sit-in across the street from my house. Some appartements will be built there shortly (within a couple of years, is my guess). Now, if I sit down there, and refuse to move when asked - how should the situation be dealt with?

It must be ascertained that you have no right to be there and that the person with lawful authority over that space wants you out. Once that is done, you will be removed (if necessary, by force). The problem in this case is not that force was used or even that the airline escalated the situation, but that it was unreasonable and most likely unlawful for them to do so. They abused an authority granted to them for unrelated reasons (safety) to force a resolution to a contract dispute (one in which they were probably in the wrong).

[TrueMetis]

1 hour ago, Swordfish said:

I can't speak to what you have or have not heard.

I can only speak to the facts.

Okay let's be real here, you haven't spoken facts you've made a claim. But that's all you've done. Saying "I hear it used in non-negative circumstances all the time" is not proof of anything cause what you've claimed can't be verified.

[Swordfish]

11 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Okay let's be real here, you haven't spoken facts you've made a claim. But that's all you've done. Saying "I hear it used in non-negative circumstances all the time" is not proof of anything cause what you've claimed can't be verified.

I am currently wearing black socks.  Despite the fact that you cannot verify this claim, it is none the less, a fact.

Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of Schrodingers cat type argument, and if so, probably the wrong thread.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

21 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

I am currently wearing black socks.  Despite the fact that you cannot verify this claim, it is none the less, a fact.

Unless of course you're trying to make some sort of Schrodingers cat type argument, and if so, probably the wrong thread.

 

There are plenty of ways you'd be able to provide evidence that might be able to convince us you are wearing black socks without providing a timestamped photo.  You could describe the shade of black, the style of sock, the brand, how they feel on your feel, etc.  Some might not be convinced, but others might.  At the least you would have tried instead of just "I can't convince you of this thing so I'll just say you're wrong and I'm right the end."

I imagine if you actually had heard escalated used in an entirely positive way that you wouldn't have any problem providing at least one example.

[Swordfish]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

 

I imagine if you actually had heard escalated used in an entirely positive way that you wouldn't have any problem providing at least one example.

Coincidentally, I had no problem providing not just one, but several examples, actually.

Perhaps a quick re-read of the thread would get you caught up on the conversation?

 

[Dr. Pepper]

3 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

Coincidentally, I had no problem providing not just one, but several examples, actually.

Perhaps a quick re-read of the thread would get you caught up on the conversation?

 

Oh yes, speaking with costumer service and not receiving the response you need so requiring an escalation. Suuuuuuuuuper positive. 

[Ded As Ned]

How about the United States escalating things in the middle east?  I'm sure there are plenty of people who would use the term in that context, and with a positive connotation.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, Ded As Ned said:

How about the United States escalating things in the middle east?  I'm sure there are plenty of people who would use the term in that context, and with a positive connotation.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/407/311/c78.jpg

[Dr. Pepper]

2 minutes ago, Ded As Ned said:

How about the United States escalating things in the middle east?  I'm sure there are plenty of people who would use the term in that context, and with a positive connotation.

True, someone can turn anything into a positive.  I pointed out above that many murderous cops are praised for escalating a situation to murder. 

But generally, the word escalated is used in a situation where something has occurred that isn't quite right.  It's a heightened response to an action, usually a wrong action.  It's also not generally used to make victims complicit in crimes against them.  I wouldn't say something like "It's my son's bday so I escalated the fun to a joyous level."  It's just not common usage.

[TrueMetis]

1 hour ago, Swordfish said:

I am currently wearing black socks.  Despite the fact that you cannot verify this claim, it is none the less, a fact.

A fact you can prove with a photograph, try something similar with your claim about the use of escalation. Until such time as you do provide that evidence I have no reason to believe it's true trivial the fact may be.

Or I can follow your current thread of logic and say "Bigfoot is standing beside me. Despite the fact that you cannot verify this claim, it is none the less, a fact."

[Swordfish]

6 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

A fact you can prove with a photograph, try something similar with your claim about the use of escalation. Until such time as you do provide that evidence I have no reason to believe it's true trivial the fact may be.

I've already provided several examples.  Which of those examples, specifically, are you claiming never happen?

Either way, your contention that something cannot be a fact because you don't believe it is...  Well, I've already made the tinkerbell reference, so.....

[TrueMetis]

40 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

I've already provided several examples.  Which of those examples, specifically, are you claiming never happen?

Either way, your contention that something cannot be a fact because you don't believe it is...  Well, I've already made the tinkerbell reference, so.....

I'm not claiming they never happened (because that would be impossible to prove), I'm saying there's no proof they did happen. And if there's no proof I don't need to entertain the idea at all. Or do you now believe in Bigfoot?

Not that this has a bearing on the discussion in the end, that escalation may occasionally be used in a positive sense doesn't change that its clearly not being used positively here.