Why didn't Stannis and Renly never bonded?

[leonardof]

3 hours ago, ftheking said:

Huh? The only thing we know about their relationship is that Loras was head over heels in love, went crazy when Renly died and considered him his sun. The overall Tyrell plot was making Renly king and keeping him in power.

So where is the part where Renyl seems to have been a victim of manipulation?

TThe Tyrell manipulation of Renly is speculation. Because of what we know the Tyrells did latter, it would make sense that Renly's idea of becoming king was actually Loras' idea.

[Lord Wraith]

5 hours ago, shardofNarsil said:

He was manipulated and most probably would have continued being manipulated by the Tyrells through Loras.His whole council was made up of reachmen.

Like Stannis is constantly being manipulated by Mel?

 

3 hours ago, John Doe said:

Stannis is Judge Dredd. 

 

 

He is the law.

[Lord Wraith]

54 minutes ago, leonardof said:

TThe Tyrell manipulation of Renly is speculation. Because of what we know the Tyrells did latter, it would make sense that Renly's idea of becoming king was actually Loras' idea.

To be fair without the Shadowbaby Renly had the best chance of winning the war. More than Stannis ever did.

[Aetta]

2 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Because, believe it or not, not everyone is a devout Fannis. Stannis is a grumpy old stiff who prioritises rules and order over just about everything, and has no idea how social-anything works. It's a chore interacting with him, especially for an outgoing, fun-loving guy like Renly.

Some people, like Ned and Jon, dislike but respect him, but that's because they value consistency and no-nonsense dealings. Renly has a different world-view. He sees the power in pragmatism, fluidity, and popularity. And seeing Stannis starving to death, and forcing everyone to starve with him, isn't going to change that - especially when his other brother is boozing, whoring, and smashing his way to the throne.

Yerp.

I used to loathe Stannis for the reasons you list -he made me sleepy.  But I came to like him once he swaggered up to the Wall. 

At any rate, my take is that, because Stannis apparently has Lightbringer lodged up his arse (or, as you so politely call it-grumpy), and has middle child syndrome, it just stood to reason that Bobby B, the life of the party, and Renly the charming wiseass would get along swimmingly and Stannis would work their nerves.  Shame on Robert, I guess, for turning Renly into the golden child, but Robert clearly couldn't take Stannis's disposition and was the first to strike the wedge between his younger brothers.

[Minsc]

9 hours ago, theblackdragonI said:

 I think he was so disrespectful to Stannis because Stannis refused to play the courtier and kiss Robert's ass like Renly did. In the end it probably comes down to an inferiority complex. Renly was scared of his older brothers because they were giants among men. But Robert got fat and became a drunk, yet Stannis never changed and that frightened Renly into taunting him.

Do we ever see Renly kissing Robert's ass?  Instead, he seems to have little problem pointing out his flaws.  Nor does Renly ever show any sign of being afraid of either Robert or Stannis.

 

9 hours ago, shardofNarsil said:

The way he acted at the parley with Stannis shows what a spoiled brat he was ,he was going to kill his brother ,the brother he starved with( "We dug coal together" ) for a throne to which he had no right.

Stannis was the one that attacked and then threatened him first.

 

8 hours ago, shardofNarsil said:

So he never bothers to talk to his brother about his plans thinking himself above him when all Renly ever had was given to him by Robert on Stannis' expense and then chooses to take the easy way instead of performing his duty so unlike his two older brothers .If it were Renly  in Stannis' position during a siege as hard as SE he would have just yielded.

If Jon and Davos are able to appreciate Stannis then why can't he ,maybe because Renly was too stupid and got played by Tyrells hard and proved himself the weakest of the Baratheons.

Stannis was hardly talking to anyone either about his plans.  Nothing Renly was given was at Stannis's expense as nothing he was given was ever Stannis's.  You mean like how Stannis decides to take the easy way out and not warn Robert about the incest?

There isn't any evidence that Renly was played by the Tyrells.

 

 

[UnFit Finlay]

8 hours ago, Maxxine said:

Renly definitely had a choice. Considering he seemingly didn't know about the twincest, he really had no real reason to believe he should be king. The more that I think about the more random it is. I understand leaving KL, but he could've just went to SE and been left alone. He did not need to be king. I think having Renly on his side would've helped Stannis in the PR department. 

As far as the OP, I think it is a bit weird that Stannis and Renly seemed to have no bond because even if you don't like someone going through something like almost starving would seemingly bond you on some level. But it doesn't just go one way. You can't just blame Renly. Stannis threatened to kill Renly too (and on some level he did kill Renly).

He might've been safe in Storm's End, for a time, but it doesn't change the fact that the Lannisters control the King. At some point, Joffrey would have summoned Renly to return to King's Landing and swear fealty - If he went, they'd find some pretext to kill him, and if they didn't they'd brand him a traitor and the Storm Lands would have to fight the rest of the realm.

I don't think anything would've helped Stannis in the PR department, at that point, mainly because he liked to pretend that he didn't care what people thought. For example, Tyrion was mocked and hated for putting a tax on whoring, Stannis wanted to ban it all together. There'd be riots. Plus all it would've taken is for the wrong person to be caught and harshly punished, and it could lead to a rebellion. Robb lost his Crown because of his inability to please all of his bannermen, Stannis wouldn't even try to please them.

I'd also add that Renly crowning himself was his third choice. He originally wanted Robert to marry Margaery and then wanted Ned to seize power through Joffrey.

5 hours ago, leonardof said:

TThe Tyrell manipulation of Renly is speculation. Because of what we know the Tyrells did latter, it would make sense that Renly's idea of becoming king was actually Loras' idea.

While it's possible that she was lying to Sansa, Olenna suggested that the whole thing was Renly's idea.

I don't think we've seen any evidence of scheming or manipulation in Loras' character. We do know that he genuinely loved Renly, given that he's taken a vow of celibacy.

[ftheking]

8 hours ago, Maxxine said:

 Stannis threatened to kill Renly too (and on some level he did kill Renly).

On the level that he murdered him with a black magic spell. I'm not aware of any other level.

What is to be considered regarding this topic is that Stannis never bonded with anyone, This is not about Renly at all. Stannis never bonded with his wife and barely his daughter. He never bonded with Davos or Mel. If he met one of those people after 20 years apart,  it wouldn't be interesting,  cute or exciting. It would be a completely subtextless "Oh, you.", Stannis can not bond. It seems to be a personality disorder.

He probaly bonded with Renly the most after his daughter. At least he wondered about that peach. At least murdering Renly distressed him somewhat.

[Trigger Warning]

Has Stannis ever bonded with anyone that's not a bird?

[Coolbeard the Exile]

They are pretty much opposites. 

Stannis has no concept of fun and enjoyment and Renly might be a little bit over the top on that department.

They are pretty much made to not sit in the same room.

Im sure they bonded atleast a little during the siege of storm's end as Stannis himself says that he did love his brother but Renly is too much of a brat.

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

Lets be honest Stannis is not a very warming character as the author loves to point out.

They have very differing personalities which doesn't help.

Then the small matter of Robert giving Renly storms end  over the elder Stannis.

But Stannis did love him and I think vice versa. 

 

[Maxxine]

12 hours ago, ftheking said:

On the level that he murdered him with a black magic spell. I'm not aware of any other level.t.

Well yeah that's what I was getting at. I said "some level" because he didn't do it with his own hand and to compensate for the fact that some people on here will vehemently argue that Stannis didn't do it and had no idea that was the plan so he really shouldn't be held responsible. 

 

10 hours ago, Robert Baratheon's hammer said:

Lets be honest Stannis is not a very warming character as the author loves to point out.

They have very differing personalities which doesn't help.

Then the small matter of Robert giving Renly storms end  over the elder Stannis.

But Stannis did love him and I think vice versa. 

 

I've always wanted to discuss this and just never got around to it. I feel like Stannis is completely wrong about being given DS being a slight. I understand why he want SE over DS. But if he ever took the time to think about instead of pouting about for 14 years, given DS may have actually been a compliment. I believe the Cressen prologue chapter talks about how he was given DS because you need someone strong to hold it considering it's access to the capital and Robert made Stannis the lord because he trusted him to do it (I think this happened in the Cressen prologue but I'm not positive; regardless I think the point stands). Also DS was what Targ heirs were given as a seat and Stannis would've been Robert's heir before he had children so possibly another reason. That idea came from Radio Westeros. 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Age difference and nature .

[Batbob45]

On 4/13/2017 at 3:26 PM, shardofNarsil said:

Robert was fostered at Vale during his teens so he wasn't really close to any of his brothers.But Stannis and Renly were together for many years till the Robert's crowning and they even survived the siege of SE together ,at that time Stannis was 17(amazing :respect:)and Renly might be around 8,dont know about anyone else but seeing my older brother holding our home against the power of the Reach while being starving would made him almost Godlike in my eyes no matter how hard he acted toward the people around him.

I can't really understand why Renly came to despise Stannis and had no respect for him .The way he acted at the parley with Stannis shows what a spoiled brat he was ,he was going to kill his brother ,the brother he starved with( "We dug coal together" ) for a throne to which he had no right.

Renly also has no love or respect for Stannis' family(he had no problem mocking them). Other than looks, Renly's reasoning for having  no problem with mocking Selyse is because, she not that nice of a person(so people would have no problem with the jokes). I always wonder why Renly would even insult his niece (She is shown to be nice). I wonder if Brienne would still be loyal to Renly if she heard him mocking his own niece.  I could  see Robert being a better  uncle to her than Renly(Robert has a cool uncle vibe to him). Renly is also shown that he doesn't care about the smallfolks when he block Roseroad food supply(only the smallfolks suffer). Renly is shown to be a narcissist(he value himself over family).

[Tralalala]

On 13.04.2017 г. at 11:26 PM, shardofNarsil said:

Robert was fostered at Vale during his teens so he wasn't really close to any of his brothers.But Stannis and Renly were together for many years till the Robert's crowning and they even survived the siege of SE together ,at that time Stannis was 17(amazing :respect:)and Renly might be around 8,dont know about anyone else but seeing my older brother holding our home against the power of the Reach while being starving would made him almost Godlike in my eyes no matter how hard he acted toward the people around him.

I can't really understand why Renly came to despise Stannis and had no respect for him .The way he acted at the parley with Stannis shows what a spoiled brat he was ,he was going to kill his brother ,the brother he starved with( "We dug coal together" ) for a throne to which he had no right.

People grow up and opinions change all the time,you can like one person today and hate him tomorrow... And to be fair Stannis is a tad annoying...

 

Also why is Stannis considered that strong of a person? Like that old "manly" thing with the pain aka if you scream and show pain you are weak but if you don't you are supposed to be strong because you don't show it?