HouseVelaryon

What is the Troop/ship number of house velaryon at its peak?

8 posts in this topic

Aegon The Dragon certainly viewed them as such. They were technically another branch of the royal family through Aegon's Mother and the multiple Targaryen marriages. As the Master of Ships position has been described as being almost a hereditary title, with multiple Velaryons holding the title, if House Velaryon ever needed royal assistance they would have had the full support of The Iron Throne, The Royal Fleet and probably a few dragons. 

I'm not sure on ship/troop numbers, but again, due to the close ties with House Targaryen, there would have been points in time where House Velaryon would have had access to all the soldiers and ships who had sworn fealty to The Iron Throne, should they really have needed it. I cant imagine Kings like Aegon I, Jaehaerys I and such not leaping to the defense of their closest kin besides the Baratheons, if the threat was strong enough.

The peak of the house was arguably during The Sea Snake's era, where their wealth famously dwarfed that of the Lannisters and Hightowers. All of that money would certainly have given the House more political sway with any foes who may have potentially viewed The Lord's of Driftmark as mere "Valyrians without dragons". Their would have been many who viewed the Velaryons in a negative like, perhaps due to them not being an old westerosi House, and perhaps due to the success they had under Targaryen rule.

Men such as The Sea Snake and Oakenfist would also have had an uncanny ability to inspire belief in others, due to their legendary naval skills, adventurous lives and charismatic natures. One would assume then that the more bold sailors of the family would have established many of their own connections around the various Ports of Planetos.

Sadly, The Lords of The Tides influence suffered alot after The Dance, with fewer Targaryen marriages and less power at court.

Hopefully Aurane Waters will have a hand in restoring the once great House Velaryon to at least some of it's former glory.

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@Leo of House Cartel Excellent reply! I was wondering about how militarily powerful they were on their own without the support of their cousins from House Targaryen. The reason for this is primarily because i was confused about the statement on the wiki and the AWOIAF book as well, i think, that "only the greyjoys could hope to match them at sea". Which given the fact that House Redwyne can float 200 warships it's a bit difficult to see how House Velaryon they could man that many ships given the size of driftmark compared to the arbor. Perhaps slightly less ships but with better sailors and faster ships?

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On 17-4-2017 at 9:59 PM, HouseVelaryon said:

 Excellent reply! I was wondering about how militarily powerful they were on their own without the support of their cousins from House Targaryen. The reason for this is primarily because i was confused about the statement on the wiki and the AWOIAF book as well, i think, that "only the greyjoys could hope to match them at sea". Which given the fact that House Redwyne can float 200 warships it's a bit difficult to see how House Velaryon they could man that many ships given the size of driftmark compared to the arbor. Perhaps slightly less ships but with better sailors and faster ships?

The most logical answer i can think of is that the house redwyne whas not as powerfull during the dance as they are in current times.

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It seems that the Velaryons were already very wealthy and controlling a vast fleet of traders and warships even before the Conquest. The Valyrians on Dragonstone and Driftmark - before and after the Targaryen arrival - controlled the naval trade in the Narrow Sea and grew very rich this way.

After the Conquest the management of the royal fleet fell to the Velaryon admirals who seem to have held the position of Master of Ships at least until 92 AC (when Jaehaerys I named Baelon his heir he most likely also appointed a new Master of Ships, either stripping Corlys of the office or not naming him Master of Ships after his grandfather died), allowing him to grew even more wealthy and influential. By the time of the Dance the Targaryens themselves only seem to have a token fleet with the actual naval power at the eastern coast of Westeros being completely in Velaryon hands. The Sea Snake's immense wealth certainly contributed greatly to this but it would only be the peak of a development that began even before the Conquest.

On 14.4.2017 at 4:38 PM, Leo of House Cartel said:

Men such as The Sea Snake and Oakenfist would also have had an uncanny ability to inspire belief in others, due to their legendary naval skills, adventurous lives and charismatic natures. One would assume then that the more bold sailors of the family would have established many of their own connections around the various Ports of Planetos.

The Sea Snake and Alyn Oakenfist are clearly heroic figures of the naval trade. In their field they are as legendary figures as the heroes and knights of the songs and stories.

On 14.4.2017 at 4:38 PM, Leo of House Cartel said:

Sadly, The Lords of The Tides influence suffered alot after The Dance, with fewer Targaryen marriages and less power at court.

We don't really know anything about the Velaryons between Oakenfist and Lucerys Velaryon, the Master of Ships during the reign of Aerys II. I'm not convinced they lost their standing and influence at court or with the fleet. The loss of the dragons also affected them, of course, and the Triarchy sacking Driftmark certainly cost them a lot of wealth and prestige. But that isn't the same as them having an overall decline. Their fleet would not be as a large as it was during the Dance nor are they likely to ever have rebuilt the wealth Corlys had had after he had returned from the Jade Sea but Oakenfist also made six great voyages which most likely also ended to be pretty profitable for House Velaryon.

And Alyn's role in Daeron's Conquest of Dorne would also have resulted in honors, offices, wealths, and other rewards. For all we know the Masters of Ships from Aegon IV to Aerys II were all Velaryons. The only king I think could have named a non-Velaryon Master of Ships would be Aegon V. I expect many (ennobled) commoners to have served on his Small Council and court.

The best explanation actually is that Robert Baratheon decided to sideline the Velaryons and strip them of much of the privileges, incomes, and influence they held under the Targaryens. In combination with the loss of most of the Targaryen fleet during the dreadful storm in the night of Dany's birth - most of which should have been Velaryon ships - this gives us a pretty good explanation why the Velaryons are as insignificant during the series as they are. Stannis would have kept a very tight leash on them to ensure that they would not conspire with or join Viserys III.

On 14.4.2017 at 4:38 PM, Leo of House Cartel said:

Hopefully Aurane Waters will have a hand in restoring the once great House Velaryon to at least some of it's former glory.

I don't think he will. There is a Lord Velaryon on Driftmark, young Lord Monterys Velaryon. He is just a boy of six but we have no idea whether Lord Monford has a strong and determined widow back on Driftmark, not to mention some legitimate siblings or cousins. Aurane chose a life of piracy, stealing quite a few ships from the Iron Throne, and that's not likely to win him any points with his family back home nor the various pretenders to the Iron Throne. In fact, with him hanging around in the Stepstones he is pretty likely to come to blows with Euron in the foreseeable future, ending up under his thumb sooner or later.

Lord Monterys and his family are likely to declare for a Targaryen pretender, though. Most likely Aegon but possibly even Daenerys later on. Whether they have the strength left to do more than declare their allegiance remains to be seen, though.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It seems that the Velaryons were already very wealthy and controlling a vast fleet of traders and warships even before the Conquest. The Valyrians on Dragonstone and Driftmark - before and after the Targaryen arrival - controlled the naval trade in the Narrow Sea and grew very rich this way.

After the Conquest the management of the royal fleet fell to the Velaryon admirals who seem to have held the position of Master of Ships at least until 92 AC (when Jaehaerys I named Baelon his heir he most likely also appointed a new Master of Ships, either stripping Corlys of the office or not naming him Master of Ships after his grandfather died), allowing him to grew even more wealthy and influential. By the time of the Dance the Targaryens themselves only seem to have a token fleet with the actual naval power at the eastern coast of Westeros being completely in Velaryon hands. The Sea Snake's immense wealth certainly contributed greatly to this but it would only be the peak of a development that began even before the Conquest.

The Sea Snake and Alyn Oakenfist are clearly heroic figures of the naval trade. In their field they are as legendary figures as the heroes and knights of the songs and stories.

We don't really know anything about the Velaryons between Oakenfist and Lucerys Velaryon, the Master of Ships during the reign of Aerys II. I'm not convinced they lost their standing and influence at court or with the fleet. The loss of the dragons also affected them, of course, and the Triarchy sacking Driftmark certainly cost them a lot of wealth and prestige. But that isn't the same as them having an overall decline. Their fleet would not be as a large as it was during the Dance nor are they likely to ever have rebuilt the wealth Corlys had had after he had returned from the Jade Sea but Oakenfist also made six great voyages which most likely also ended to be pretty profitable for House Velaryon.

And Alyn's role in Daeron's Conquest of Dorne would also have resulted in honors, offices, wealths, and other rewards. For all we know the Masters of Ships from Aegon IV to Aerys II were all Velaryons. The only king I think could have named a non-Velaryon Master of Ships would be Aegon V. I expect many (ennobled) commoners to have served on his Small Council and court.

The best explanation actually is that Robert Baratheon decided to sideline the Velaryons and strip them of much of the privileges, incomes, and influence they held under the Targaryens. In combination with the loss of most of the Targaryen fleet during the dreadful storm in the night of Dany's birth - most of which should have been Velaryon ships - this gives us a pretty good explanation why the Velaryons are as insignificant during the series as they are. Stannis would have kept a very tight leash on them to ensure that they would not conspire with or join Viserys III.

I don't think he will. There is a Lord Velaryon on Driftmark, young Lord Monterys Velaryon. He is just a boy of six but we have no idea whether Lord Monford has a strong and determined widow back on Driftmark, not to mention some legitimate siblings or cousins. Aurane chose a life of piracy, stealing quite a few ships from the Iron Throne, and that's not likely to win him any points with his family back home nor the various pretenders to the Iron Throne. In fact, with him hanging around in the Stepstones he is pretty likely to come to blows with Euron in the foreseeable future, ending up under his thumb sooner or later.

Lord Monterys and his family are likely to declare for a Targaryen pretender, though. Most likely Aegon but possibly even Daenerys later on. Whether they have the strength left to do more than declare their allegiance remains to be seen, though.

Yes, everything points to a massive drop in status and power after Robert's victory.  They've gone from being a branch of the royal family and almost hereditary Masters of Ships to being Stannis' vassal.  They were probably lucky not to have been completely dispossessed and sent into exile.

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Velaryons would have little use for infantry and cavalry.  They will have a medieval navy.  I would think a small armada.  Even so, I don't think they would have a large force.  Not as large as the Ironborn but their ships would be just as advanced and their sailors just as good.  

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20 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Velaryons would have little use for infantry and cavalry.  They will have a medieval navy.  I would think a small armada.  Even so, I don't think they would have a large force.  Not as large as the Ironborn but their ships would be just as advanced and their sailors just as good.  

You're right i think about cavalry but I believe, in it's peak, the house did have a sizable infantry as I would imagine that a majority of Aegon the conqueror's army came from Driftmark which is both larger and more arable than the barren dragonstone. As per them not having a large naval force at their peak, I think it would take at least 100 or so ships to blockade the gullet as they did during the Dance. 

In present day i believe they still do have an infantry as Tyrion was surrounded by Velaryon spearmen at the Blackwater and, as for their current navy, I think there's a misconception as to how many ships they provided Stannis. Most people think they only provided 4 Warships to Stannis fleet but, if i'm not mistaken, the 4 that are referred to are just the 4 among the largest 9 warships of Stannis. If 1 house provides basically half of the largest ships on a 160 ship fleet then could we assume that they must have a proportionate amount of regular ships as well?

 

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