andy_wan_kenobi

The Child of Rheagar and Lyanna

243 posts in this topic

Why do people think lemons only grow in Dorne? Everyone makes a big deal about "lemons = Dorne" - yeah, if you're a Westerosi. In the Riverlands and the Vale it makes sense to associate lemons with Dorne, because it's the same continent. But why would someone in Essos get their lemons from Dorne if they can get them from Tyrosh or Lys or Myr or somewhere else with the same climate as Dorne? All I'm saying is, lemons does not always equal Dorne.

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Posted (edited)

I wanted to say a few things about what narrowing down the time means concerning when the marriage pact takes place, and, in particular, the contributions of @Rhaenys_Targaryen to the discussion.

First, I've been pushing the idea for some time that the existence of the Lemon Tree in Braavos, and the marriage pact with the Sealord's signature as witness to it, are both strong pieces of evidence of support for the Targaryens in exile. Among the other bits and pieces that point in that direction are two seemingly minor clues, one very early on and one later in the series.

The first is a very old mention in A Game of Thrones in Daenerys's first chapter:

Quote

Illyrio whispered to them. "Those three are Drogo's bloodriders, there," he said. By the pillar is Khal Moro, with his son Rhogoro. The man with the green beard is brother to the Archon of Tyrosh, and the man behind him is Ser Jorah Mormont." (AGoT 30) bold emphasis added

This is the first time we meet Ser Jorah, and the Archon's brother's attendance seems, on the surface, to have no real meaning for the story other than background. We never meet him and he is never mentioned again. The importance, or lack thereof, of this tidbit has been debated since I joined this board back in 2007 and I'm sure it goes back further than that. It appears as if a minor dignitary from one of the other Free Cities shows up in Pentos and attends the gathering in which Dany is presented to Khal Drogo. So what? We can only speculate on if there is anything deeper in this attendance. That is until A Feast for Crows.

There we learn the Archon's daughter is sent to the Water Gardens as ward of Prince Doran. As shown in RT's quote above ... let me paste it again below:

Quote

“That green-haired girl was the Archon’s daughter. I was to have sent you to Tyrosh in her place. You would have served the Archon as a cupbearer and met with your betrothed in secret, but your mother threatened to harm herself if I stole another of her children, and I... I could not do that to her.” (AFfC 604) bold emphasis added

This then is the second time a relative of the Archon of Tyrosh comes into our story. And the connection I hadn't made - that is as clear as day in RT's quote - is that it is far beyond just another casual and incidental connection to the Archon. Bringing the Archon's daughter to the Water Gardens was intended, not just to further the ties between Dorne and Tyrosh, but, as the bolded portion of the quote shows, as cover to sending Arianne to the Free Cities in order to facilitate a secret meeting with Viserys. It implies the Archon was in on the game.

Some knowledge and participation of the Archon would be necessary to keep such a meeting secret. Otherwise, we have to fantasize about Dornish assets within the Tyroshi court secreting Arianne out without the Archon's knowledge. Nothing shows this, and the fact a decade plus later the Archon's brother ends up attending a dinner to arrange a marriage between Dany and Khal Drogo makes this seems an extremely unlikely option. This is not coincidence. It is planning.

We are told Viserys is the "Beggar King" going from city to city, with his young sister, begging for shelter. Now, we have strong evidence this was not the case, at least in the beginning. We have stone-cold evidence that ties Dorne to a secret plan to marry Arianne to Viserys, and also evidence both the Sealord of Braavos and the Archon of Tyroshi supported this plan. That is not a history of the two wandering Targaryen children cast adrift by the world. It is one of secret support, but support from powerful supporters.

What then is the significance of the timing of the pact? It places it in the early years of the Targaryen exile in Braavos. And for the purposes of this discussion it is important to note than none of these deductions contradict Dany's own memories of her days in Braavos, and her memories of Ser Willem and his death.

In fact, all of these points are arrived at without assumption of Dany's memories being correct, but all based on independent evidence support her memories being true. Nothing contradicts them. Is it proof that Dany's memories are true? No. But it is strong evidence supporting the likelihood they are.

Edited by SFDanny

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Wow, haven't seen something new in quite a while... :-)

Some little details that, in the light of this connection, might be pointing towards some importance of Tyrosh: the IT loaned from the Iron Bank of Braavos and Tyroshi trading cartels, and except the house with the red door, Dany's only positive memory of her childhood in the Free Cities is playing at the bazaars of Myr and, guess where, Tyrosh, where she would buy honeyfingers. 

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