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Will Jon marry Val?


KarlDanski

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48 minutes ago, RevaM said:

Listen bud, if there is one thing i've learned from the show, then its the fact that the show is a poorly written fan fiction with big budget on small screen. and that's pretty much it. The show doesn't even follow the books anymore. They might have similar endings but I'm sure the differences will be HUGE.

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Okey, there will be huge differences as you said or more accurate as the showrunners said but in the end, the ending will be the same especially with the main characters.They can cut Aegon cause, in the end, he is not a main character they fucked up Dorne cause, in the end, it doesn't matter. They are not the main characters in the books.Maybe Doran will survive maybe not but it will be something that won't affect our main story.Not that they are not important and not essential in the whole ASOIAF but the show will find a way to change things and still end up in the same path with GRRM.I don't see a reason why they wouldn't put Val since she is not that main even in the books.They probably want to save money and that's, why they didn't, want Aegon.If they putted him in the show it will mean they would have to cast many other people too.Jon connington,lemore.......and new places to film......They changed Sansa's plotline because why not??Why would they film in the Vale following Sansas plot and Winterfell following Theon's plot??Too much headage,money, new cast and time.Val is just one character who doesn't really interact with many characters and it would be really easy to include her in all these scences that Jon was with the wildings.....easy and cheap especially for a character who could end up with Jon.But they didn't.....

And then comes a second more obvious moment where they could have included her but again they didn't.I'm talking about the episode of Hardhome and the beautiful wilding woman( we, unfortunately, saw for a short time ) Karsi.For me it was like I was seeing Val.Not her appearance but her character.That girl could easily be her but again they didn't do it again.

Maybe for most those things don't mean a thing but for me its pretty clear that those two won't end up together.Val is an interesting and cheap character who had many opportunities to be on the show the fact that we didn't see her speaks volumes to me.

I hope I'm wrong because I would really like them together but........-_-

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Just now, Valedina said:

Okey, there will be huge differences as you said or more accurate as the showrunners said but in the end, the ending will be the same especially with the main characters.They can cut Aegon cause, in the end, he is not a main character they fucked up Dorne cause, in the end, it doesn't matter. They are not the main characters in the books.Maybe Doran will survive maybe not but it will be something that won't affect our main story.Not that they are not important and not essential in the whole ASOIAF but the show will find a way to change things and still end up in the same path with GRRM.I don't see a reason why they wouldn't put Val since she is not that main even in the books.They probably want to save money and that's, why they didn't, want Aegon.If they putted him in the show it will mean they would have to cast many other people too.Jon connington,lemore.......and new places to film......They changed Sansa's plotline because why not??Why would they film in the Vale following Sansas plot and Winterfell following Theon's plot??Too much headage,money, new cast and time.Val is just one character who doesn't really interact with many characters and it would be really easy to include her in all these scences that Jon was with the wildings.....easy and cheap especially for a character who could end up with Jon.But they didn't.....

And then comes a second more obvious moment where they could have included her but again they didn't.I'm talking about the episode of Hardhome and the beautiful wilding woman( we, unfortunately, saw for a short time ) Karsi.For me it was like I was seeing Val.Not her appearance but her character.That girl could easily be her but again they didn't do it again.

Maybe for most those things don't mean a thing but for me its pretty clear that those two won't end up together.Val is an interesting and cheap character who had many opportunities to be on the show the fact that we didn't see her speaks volumes to me.

I hope I'm wrong because I would really like them together but........-_-

Well as Jon/Arya supporter, i also don't see Jon/Val happening. But if Jon/Arya won't happen then Val is the second person i would want to see Jon with. Because those are the two people Jon actually interacted with and has chemistry with. and that's not the same with Dany and Sansa. Dany has different taste in men and no chemistry and the same goes for Sansa. And i doubt Jon would like dany or sansa, since he also has different taste on women (warrior women, e.g:Arya, Val, Ygritte, Alys). But let me remind you that I'm only talking in terms of books and not the show.

and admit it, the show fucked up pretty bad, not only with the character developments but also with casting and everything. Im still salty about Kit Harington being casted as Jon, and why the fuck did they replace Jeyne with Talisa and the same goes for Jeyne/Sansa?! Seriously why the fuck does the show hates the Jeynes so much????

And i think the reason they fucked up with everything is because they didn't think through some stuff from the beginning. 

And don't get me started with Arya arc in the show (seriously what the fuck? her plot made 0% sense) and Dorne.....And Jon's Arc....And Sansa's arc...and Rickon...and Shireen...and Stannis...and Dany...just...ugh( Oh i can talk about it for hours, believe me i can)

 

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10 minutes ago, RevaM said:

Well as Jon/Arya supporter, i also don't see Jon/Val happening. But if Jon/Arya won't happen then Val is the second person i would want to see Jon with. Because those are the two people Jon actually interacted with and has chemistry with. and that's not the same with Dany and Sansa. Dany has different taste in men and no chemistry and the same goes for Sansa. And i doubt Jon would like dany or sansa, since he also has different taste on women (warrior women, e.g:Arya, Val, Ygritte, Alys). But let me remind you that I'm only talking in terms of books and not the show.

Have you had a chance to read this wonderful (not so) crackpot idea for Dany and Daario? 

 

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Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

Have you had a chance to read this wonderful (not so) crackpot idea for Dany and Daario? 

 

no  haven't actually, but i'll check it out rn

Just curious, but how is it related to this thread exactly?

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Just now, RevaM said:

no  haven't actually, but i'll check it out rn

Just curious, but how is it related to this thread exactly?

As an addition to how Jon is not Dany's type and who is and why. That is goea deeper than it seems on a first read. And because sharing additional info is the best way to get a feel for the story as a whole. 

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On April 27, 2017 at 9:35 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

As an addition to how Jon is not Dany's type and who is and why. That is goea deeper than it seems on a first read. And because sharing additional info is the best way to get a feel for the story as a whole. 

i get your point. And I'm glad to find some people who don't like Jon/Dany. At least we have something in common 

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22 minutes ago, RevaM said:

Well as Jon/Arya supporter, i also don't see Jon/Val happening. But if Jon/Arya won't happen then Val is the second person i would want to see Jon with. Because those are the two people Jon actually interacted with and has chemistry with. and that's not the same with Dany and Sansa. Dany has different taste in men and no chemistry and the same goes for Sansa. And i doubt Jon would like dany or sansa, since he also has different taste on women (warrior women, e.g:Arya, Val, Ygritte, Alys). But let me remind you that I'm only talking in terms of books and not the show.

and admit it, the show fucked up pretty bad, not only with the character developments but also with casting and everything. Im still salty about Kit Harington being casted as Jon, and why the fuck did they replace Jeyne with Talisa and the same goes for Jeyne/Sansa?! Seriously why the fuck does the show hates the Jeynes so much????

And i think the reason they fucked up with everything is because they didn't think through some stuff from the beginning. 

And don't get me started with Arya arc in the show (seriously what the fuck? her plot made 0% sense) and Dorne.....And Jon's Arc....And Sansa's arc...and Rickon...and Shireen...and Stannis...and Dany...just...ugh( Oh i can talk about it for hours, believe me i can)

 

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Hahaha,  I enjoyed your reply.:D

I'm more of a Arya/Gedry and( although I don't like it) Jon/Dan relationship.But I would certainly like to see Jon/Val happening 

For not liking Kit I'm with you. I really don't like him as an actor and as a man......even less so.

 

If you want to talk about the differences of the characters  arcs you could create your own forum;)unless you have already done that....:rolleyes:

 

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On 26/04/2017 at 8:15 AM, Vaedys Targaryen said:

But even if Jon marries Val and everything is somehow okay, do remember that just because the Free Folk follow Jon and Val, that does not mean that they will follow their children. If their children are weak and cannot rule, the Free Folk will abandon them and will most likely break into different tribes under different leaders and fights all over the North are going to happen. When they finally decide to head further south, that will most likely be the end of them, as the Free Folk are not particularily technologically advanced and will most likely be defeated by the southerners.

This to me sounds like a seamless transition into the society, as per the history of Westeros over the past ten thousand years or so. How are the Wildlings any different than any other faction that already resides south of the Wall?

I know I would certainly prefer the likes of Mance, Tormand, and especially Val :drool: as my neighbors over the likes of Tywin, Roose and Ramsey, etc.

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On 26/04/2017 at 8:39 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

 All of that effort for such a paltry number of survivors. Not really worth the pages spent on it.

Jeez, I wonder what are your thoughts on the sentiment of the following statement?

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

 . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"

"Everything," said Davos, softly.

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2 hours ago, Valedina said:

Okey, there will be huge differences as you said or more accurate as the showrunners said but in the end, the ending will be the same especially with the main characters.They can cut Aegon cause, in the end, he is not a main character they fucked up Dorne cause, in the end, it doesn't matter. They are not the main characters in the books.Maybe Doran will survive maybe not but it will be something that won't affect our main story.Not that they are not important and not essential in the whole ASOIAF but the show will find a way to change things and still end up in the same path with GRRM.I don't see a reason why they wouldn't put Val since she is not that main even in the books.They probably want to save money and that's, why they didn't, want Aegon.If they putted him in the show it will mean they would have to cast many other people too.Jon connington,lemore.......and new places to film......They changed Sansa's plotline because why not??Why would they film in the Vale following Sansas plot and Winterfell following Theon's plot??Too much headage,money, new cast and time.Val is just one character who doesn't really interact with many characters and it would be really easy to include her in all these scences that Jon was with the wildings.....easy and cheap especially for a character who could end up with Jon.But they didn't.....

And then comes a second more obvious moment where they could have included her but again they didn't.I'm talking about the episode of Hardhome and the beautiful wilding woman( we, unfortunately, saw for a short time ) Karsi.For me it was like I was seeing Val.Not her appearance but her character.That girl could easily be her but again they didn't do it again.

Maybe for most those things don't mean a thing but for me its pretty clear that those two won't end up together.Val is an interesting and cheap character who had many opportunities to be on the show the fact that we didn't see her speaks volumes to me.

I hope I'm wrong because I would really like them together but........-_-

I've taken the liberty to amend your post a little; Now it is appropriate for this sub-forum.

 

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On April 27, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Valedina said:

Hahaha,  I enjoyed your reply.:D

I'm more of a Arya/Gedry and( although I don't like it) Jon/Dan relationship.But I would certainly like to see Jon/Val happening 

For not liking Kit I'm with you. I really don't like him as an actor and as a man......even less so.

 

If you want to talk about the differences of the characters  arcs you could create your own forum;)unless you have already done that....:rolleyes:

 

haha no i haven't done that yet.

But yeah I've got loads of things to talk about, and there will definitely be more threads 

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16 hours ago, Valedina said:

I'm more of a Arya/Gedry and( although I don't like it) Jon/Dan relationship

I didn't get this sentence actually. I get that you're a Gendrya supporter, but i didn't get the Jon/Dany part...so do you like it or not??

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On 18/04/2017 at 3:59 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

And Jon and Val having been married will assure an alliance, and more importanlty good behavior, from the free folk.

How so? The "Kneelers" assign political value to Val because they're ignorant of how Wildling leadership works, but the Wildlings themselves haven't chosen her as their leader. If anything, in the absence of Mance, Jon has become their new Wildling King. He doesn't need Val to command the wildings.

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1 hour ago, RevaM said:

I didn't get this sentence actually. I get that you're a Gendrya supporter, but i didn't get the Jon/Dany part...so do you like it or not??

No, i don't like it very much but I'm not that against it as I am with Arya/Jon relationship (sorry there, you said you were a Jon/Arya fan)but I'm sure it will happen......:rolleyes: That's what I mean.

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Just now, Valedina said:

No, i don't like it very much but I'm not that against it as I am with Arya/Jon relationship (sorry there, you said you were a Jon/Arya fan)but I'm sure it will happen......:rolleyes: That's what I mean.

Well i think the complete opposite. GRRM never intended Jon/Dany, and besides there are only 2 books left so i don't think he'll have the time to write a romance between the two, and if he does then it will terribly written+rushed. I don't support Jon/Dany bc of the reason i have mentioned previously (They're not each other's types and so on.) so the chances of it happening is slim imho.

Also about Jonrya: no offence taken, but i just don't get it why you're so against it when there are way more foreshadowings/proofs than Jon/Dany

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27 minutes ago, RevaM said:

Well i think the complete opposite. GRRM never intended Jon/Dany, and besides there are only 2 books left so i don't think he'll have the time to write a romance between the two, and if he does then it will terribly written+rushed. I don't support Jon/Dany bc of the reason i have mentioned previously (They're not each other's types and so on.) so the chances of it happening is slim imho.

Also about Jonrya: no offence taken, but i just don't get it why you're so against it when there are way more foreshadowings/proofs than Jon/Dany

 
 

I don't like Jon/Dany so much I just think it's going to happen but the reason I'm so against Jon/Arya......(it may sound a little bit strange)is cause I think of them as brother and sister in my mind.Generally, when I was reading ASOIAF I wanted George to focus a little bit more on the family relationships.Arya and Jon were the most lovable family for me .i liked how close they were together and I don't want that to change.They grew up together loving each other as brother and sister and suddenly what they will see each other again and feel lust, love?If it happened between Sansa and Jon it would be very logical to me since those two didn't actually have any interactions and they didn't feel as close as brother and sister but for Arya and Jon I find it completely out of the blue.

I don't know everyone has their opinion but for me, this is kind of sick and I didn't get all these messages that so many believe are proofs of an Arya/Jon romance but I would be really displeased and uncomfortable if it happened.From all the theories and possible scenarios that I've heard this is the number one I hate the most:unsure:

At least  there are many people who will be happy with that outcome so it will not be a disaster for everyone......but as I have said in other discussions I don't think Jon/Arya is gonna happen :ph34r: 

 

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4 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

How so? The "Kneelers" assign political value to Val because they're ignorant of how Wildling leadership works,

This is not a Jon+Val ship. This subplot is connected to all of the main plots in the north. The set up of this union starts to close out act two and begins act three. George has said this is a three act story (like most are). George is also personally passionate about unity, female equality, bringing down land borders, etc. He made an impassioned statement about this on his blog this past September???? I can't remember exactly when, but I have linked to it in my Nymeris returns thread if you are interested.

Anyway, yes, that whole wildling princess thing is quite repetitive. It makes me wonder exactly who knows nothing? Jon seems to know the difference, and so do the other free folk. But the much more intelligent southroners insist this is how it works, just as they insist Gerrick Kingsblood is actually a king. Of all the southroners in Stannis and Selyse's retinue they brought with them, Stannis is the only one whose eyes are actually opening to the real battle and procedure of things. Probably why the author had to move him away from the situation at Castle Black. Stannis is figuring stuff out and he would not let the tomfoolery that did happen, happen.

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but the Wildlings themselves haven't chosen her as their leader.

There is a very key scene that shows different. We know free folk do not kneel, yet they chose their own leader. If you have time, reread Dance, Jon III. There are lots of bits in there (in addition to what we already know about the free folk) that show us the free folk are kneeling to Val while she is crowned with bronze and up on the platform. This is also when Jon notices the free folk have literally no choice given to them by Stannis and Melisandre. Jon notices they are literally naked and starving and afraid. The choice they are given is burn the weirwood branches and eat, or go wandering out into the cold on the north side of the wall. Remember, the free folk know about the Others and wights. They have seen them and lost family to them.

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If anything, in the absence of Mance, Jon has become their new Wildling King. He doesn't need Val to command the wildings.

Because this is a story about unity and this is a set up for the future- act three. Jon is technically still a member of the Night's Watch. He can't leave to raise a family or to govern people out beyond the wall. If you want the wildlings to "behave" and assimilate in to their new society, they need a leader that is like them they can trust. SIgorn gives the best and most detailed explanation for this when the talk of a Thenn/Karstark marriage happens.

Also, the free folk are not misogynists to the level that most in the lower kingdoms are. Women are allowed to hunt, carry weapons, can get divorced, can and do command clans and warrior factions, and are expected to put up a fight during a courtship/marriage. Hence why Val  makes her rough, playful comments.

So why couldn't they first follow Val (she already went out, found them, and led them from the forests), or have loyalty to Val in addition to Jon? Wun Wun seems to think she is worth protecting. Just as Ser Patrek :P

This would actually stay very consistent with how the author has set up the future of this story. Unity and equality.

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10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

There is a very key scene that shows different. We know free folk do not kneel, yet they chose their own leader. If you have time, reread Dance, Jon III. There are lots of bits in there (in addition to what we already know about the free folk) that show us the free folk are kneeling to Val while she is crowned with bronze and up on the platform. This is also when Jon notices the free folk have literally no choice given to them by Stannis and Melisandre. Jon notices they are literally naked and starving and afraid. The choice they are given is burn the weirwood branches and eat, or go wandering out into the cold on the north side of the wall. Remember, the free folk know about the Others and wights. They have seen them and lost family to them.

I'm not going lie, it's been a while since I read the books, and I barely remember anything to do with Val because she was such a non-character for me. But looking at your summary of events, I see nothing that contradicts my statement. You said it yourself: the Wildlings were not given a choice in kneeling. They've not chosen Val or Mel or Stannis to be their new King; they chose survival.

I suppose you could make a case for Stannis being the new Wildling King, since he is now the strongest/most powerful figure around, but that still doesn't make Val anything.

10 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Because this is a story about unity and this is a set up for the future- act three. Jon is technically still a member of the Night's Watch. He can't leave to raise a family or to govern people out beyond the wall. If you want the wildlings to "behave" and assimilate in to their new society, they need a leader that is like them they can trust. SIgorn gives the best and most detailed explanation for this when the talk of a Thenn/Karstark marriage happens.

Also, the free folk are not misogynists to the level that most in the lower kingdoms are. Women are allowed to hunt, carry weapons, can get divorced, can and do command clans and warrior factions, and are expected to put up a fight during a courtship/marriage. Hence why Val  makes her rough, playful comments.

So why couldn't they first follow Val (she already went out, found them, and led them from the forests), or have loyalty to Val in addition to Jon? Wun Wun seems to think she is worth protecting. Just as Ser Patrek :P

This would actually stay very consistent with how the author has set up the future of this story. Unity and equality.

I'll turn your question around - why follow Val? I'm sure there are plenty of other strong warrior woman amongst the Wildlings, men too. I've not seen any indication that the Wildlings see her as as Mance's successor, or that they'll submit to whomever she marries. All I see is the Wildlings having a growing respect for Jon.

Also, it's in the Southroner's interests for the Wildlings to assimilate. The Wildlings still want to remain free from the King's laws, so why should they change their behaviour just because one of their own marries a kneeler?

Re: unity and equality: there wouldn't be either if just the Wildlings assimilate. True unity and equality would be if there was change on both sides - i.e. if Westeros makes changes as well, in order to accommodate the Wildilings.

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