Why do Northmen fight so well?

[The Fattest Leech]

6 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

He's been away for a while to be fair, I doubt many people in Westros even remember him. 

He has been in Essos for only about 7/8 years. That is not that long, and the North remembers . His family certainly will. So will anyone who followed Ned to search for him to bring him to justice.

6 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

 

Why not? They're amongst the top fighters in a warrior culture where fights to the death are a regular feature of life. I'd probably rate the average Dothraki warrior above the average Westrosi knight.

I agree with @Orphalesion with his response. They have one, open plain strategy, and apparently do not know much about armour and how ot maneuver in it, and how to do things like take siege to castles.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

11 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

They have one, open plain strategy, and apparently do not know much about armour and how ot maneuver in it, and how to do things like take siege to castles

That's not got much to do with individual fighting ability though

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That's not got much to do with individual fighting ability though

Take a Dothraki down off a horse and watch them fumble bow-legged in armour they have never used before, because they can't be up on their horses the entire time and they would have to start to use armour if they want any chance to survive against someone who is aromoured.

[Orphalesion]

25 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

There's no evidence for this. 

Except every time we have seen or heard about the Dothraki fighting. Except for all those times we don't have any evidence, you are right there. 

12 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That's not got much to do with individual fighting ability though

Except yes, that's what individual fighting ability means.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The Dothraki are primarily horse archers. Their typical battle strategy involves riding around formations of defending soldiers, firing arrows into their ranks, gradually whittling them down.

Their araks appear to be butchering devices rather than duelling weapons. Frankly, Khal Drogo himself won't even make the Westerosi top 10, which will have the following 10 warriors ahead of him, off the top of my head:

Arthur Dayne

Barristan Selmy

Jaime Lannister

The Hound

The Mountain

Garlan Tyrell

Quorin Halfhand

Greatjon Umber

Mance Rayder (based on the reference to him being the "best of us", meaning better than Quorin Halfhand)

Robert Baratheon

Andrik the Unsmiling

Heck, maybe even Victarrion Greyjoy, although I think he and Drogo are roughly on a par

This leaves out a bunch of good fighters who might well be better than Drogo, but who slipped my mind initially, such as Darkstar, Bronze Yohn Royce, Lyn Corbray and the like.

 

[KarlDanski]

My top 10 list would go like this if we're accounting dead people:

1. Daemon Blackfyre

2. Arthur Dayne

3. Barristan Selmy

4. Cregan Stark

5. Jaime Lannister

7. Oberyn Martell

8. Robert Baratheon

9. Garlan Tyrell

10. Aemon Targaryen

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

33 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Except every time we have seen or heard about the Dothraki fighting. Except for all those times we don't have any evidence, you are right there. 

Where are there examples of the Dothraki mindlessly charging and screaming at people?

[KarlDanski]

Dothraki warriors are commonly referred to as "horselords". They are also often (and half-derisively) called "Dothraki screamers", because of their fierce war cries as they charge into battle and raids

[KarlDanski]

When the Dothraki face any professional army, they rout. They do good against the common sellsword companies of Essos, but when they face Ghiscari Legions or Unsullied, they're easily dispatched. Northern Pikemen, Armored Vale Knights, Massive Reach Armies, Westerlands Bowmen, Dornish Spears, Riverland Cavalry, and such would destroy them. Armor, and Weapons mainly. Plate, chain etc which are common, at least for the chainmail deflect the slashing arakh with ease, the weapons of the westerosi cgo from axes to swords to warhammers which are great for piercing armor, not that the Dothraki use them in the first place.

[theblackdragonI]

2 hours ago, Tralalala said:

To me that pure bullshit,harsh lands breed normal people and nothing extraordinary.

As for their wins and losses that controlled by the author and in story by the commander and simple uck...

I'd have to disagree with you there. While they may not be smarter or more skilled fighters than their southern counter-parts, the average northman or any person in a harsher climate will tend to be able to survive adverse conditions and it might make them more ferocious. There's examples all throughout history such as the Vikings carving out realms in Britain, or the hordes that came south during the early medieval period like the Vandals, Huns, etc. 

I do agree with you that it is purely down to George but he doesn't seem to imply that they're all brilliant soldiers, just tough bastards. 

[Orphalesion]

31 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Where are there examples of the Dothraki mindlessly charging and screaming at people?

KarlDanski has already answered this. In addition to that, consider how in GoT it's made clear that the Dothraki would be a problem because they'd trample over the peasant and devastate the country side, not because they are such good fighters. They are dangerous because of numbers, not ecause of fighting ability.

Kahl Temmo was defeated using relatively simple tactics, because the Unsullied don't get scared by big men screaming at them and because the Dothraki solve their problems with pure strength, which didn't help against a disciplined and trained fighting force.

Every time Dothraki are shown on page they are pure impulse, they fight, kill and have sex at the drop of a hat, without regard to any consequences or any forethought on the future. They aren't strategists. 

[Coolbeard the Exile]

4 hours ago, KarlDanski said:

You've seen in both the books, and tv show, the Northmen characters fight more ferociously, and are more fierce than their southern cousins. In almost any case, the Northmen who are usually outnumbered are able to defeat a larger force even though they're usually only armored with chainmail, leather etc. An example is the "Winter Wolves", a group of 2000 mounted Northmen led by Roderick "the Ruin" Dustin who in one battle charged Lannister spear men 5 times, losing 2/3 of his force to injury or death. In another battle, he along with the Northern remnants, and Riverrun allies charged an enemy that outnumbered them 10 to 1, and managed to kill Lord Ormund Hightower, and Ser Bryndon Hightower, before dying.

Other examples are listed below:

Battle of the Green Fork : The first Northern battle, they lost the most that they ever had, losing 5000 soldiers while the Lannisters are reported to have lost less, this may of been an early power play of Roose Bolton as many important heirs/lords were captured or killed in the battle like Halys Hornwood, Donnel Locke, Harrion Karstark, Medger Cerwyn, and Wylis Manderly.

Battle of Whispering Wood : 6000 Northmen/Rivermen killed 2250 Lannisters while only losing around 200.

Battle of the Camps : 6000 Northmen/Rivermen destroyed the Lannister only, killing 8000 Lannisters while only suffering non-significant casualties.

Battle of Oxcross : 6000 Northmen/Rivermen destroyed a Lannister host at Oxcross, scattering the entire force, and killing Stafford Lannister while suffering non-significant casualties.

Battle of Duskendale : 3000 Northmen inflict heavy casualties on Randyll Tarly, and Gregor Cleganes forces while only losing around 1100 men.

Fighting at the Fords of the Trident : 2000 of a 6100 Northmen force are killed crossing a ford while under the command of Roose Bolton, inflicting unknown casualties. May of been a power play by Roose Bolton as the only houses to lose men were Norrey, Locke, Manderly, and Burley.

Red Wedding : Not much of a battle, but Stark forces managed to inflict 50 casualties despite being unarmed, unarmored, maybe drunk, and generally caught off guard.

Anyways, this is just a short list of battles that Northern forces partook in where they inflicted more casualties despite having less numbers, worse armor, and weapons. In the Animated Shorts of GoT, it's said that while the First Men in general had less quality weapons/armor/horse, they were much more fierce than the Andals in general, and that's where the strength came from. Does it come from the First Men blood or does the Wildling attacks make them stronger despite not everyone being in Umberland to witness raids, and gain experience from fighting them. I don't know, just wondering, because Desmond, a Stark guard says a Northmen is worth 10 southern swords, despite dying to 1 Lannister, and the Ironborn have the same general theme.

Northmen are naturally hardier folk than many other people which helps. They are also noted as being bigger and burlier than other people from diffrent realms which definatly helps.

Battle of the Whispering woods: The Lannister force was completely suprised and surounded so they stood no chance not strange it was a decisive victory.

Battle of The Camps: The Lannister army was split up in three parts so they couldnt help eachother and yet again they were suprised and when they did manage to fight back and form a spearwall the riverlanders inside riverrun sallied out and took them in the back not strange it was such an overwhelming victory. 4000 Lannisters managed to escape unharmed and where never involved by the way.

Battle of the Green Fork: Nothern army tried to suprise the Lannister by a night march and suprise attack but cunning Tywin noticed it and had a good plan aswell as advantages such as rest, food and an earlier survey of the battlefield. The northern army was almost completely without cavalry support so they took a defeat but they managed to inflict some damage to the Lannister host and retreat and reform without being chased so it wasn't a disaster.

Battle of Oxcross: Northern army took the Lannisters completely by suprise in a night attack and were experienced up against an army in trainig.

Battle of Duskendale: Northern army was well experienced by this point up against pretty inexperienced forces so they managed to fight back well.

Generally you could say that the Northerners are fiercer and braver than other people but their successes agains the Lannisters was entirely up to their leadership and not because they are better soldiers. Infact the Northerners are worse equipped and trained than the Lannister troops.

 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

The North is the one doing the attacking on the enemy lands.  They're fighting far from home.  You would think that's a disadvantage but it's much harder to desert when your home is far away.  The North is fighting in someone else's backyard.  They're not worried about damaging the homes and the farms. 

[Tralalala]

13 hours ago, theblackdragonI said:

I'd have to disagree with you there. While they may not be smarter or more skilled fighters than their southern counter-parts.

I do agree with you that it is purely down to George but he doesn't seem to imply that they're all brilliant soldiers, just tough bastards. 

 

14 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

I didn't say extraordinary. Free Northman probably worded it better than I did, but I meant pretty much the same thing. They are more used to harsh conditions and physical hardship than the south and thus have an edge of hardiness over them.

 

Good points but to me that applies to their commanders,i doubt the smallfolk are any different just because theu have a harsher winter... But everyone has their own opinion...