Very clear examples of Maester Bias

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

I'm not trying to start a big tinfoil thread but what are some examples of maesters lying/"cheating" their lord/ or if going by history, clearly wrote some personal beliefs/knowledge or otherwise shaped things to their liking.

The first would be Mushroom vs. Munkun (I think) having some inconsistencies notably with The Realms delight and Ser Criston Cole. While I would never "trust" mushrooms opinion (lol) I do think he was closer on this one and Munkun and others wrote the history favoring Cole's legacy or decisions.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Pycelle giving his lord and king bad advice during the siege of King's Landing.  He advised Aerys to open the gates to the Lannister forces.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

3 minutes ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Pycelle giving his lord and king bad advice during the siege of King's Landing.  He advised Aerys to open the gates to the Lannister forces.

I thought of Pycelle as well. Tywin must seem perfect in his notes/memoirs

Also I completely agree 

[Foot_Of_The_King]

 

2 hours ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

I thought of Pycelle as well. Tywin must seem perfect in his notes/memoires

Pycelle was the only one who seemed truly distraught over Tywins death. He was really torn up about it. Always makes a laugh a litttle on rereads. 

[KarlDanski]

Rickard Stark's maester if you believe Barbrey Dustin.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

2 hours ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

 

Pycelle was the only one who seemed truly distraught over Tywins death. He was really torn up about it. Always makes a laugh a litttle on rereads. 

And Tommen was too lol but I think it was more ceremonial than actual grief.

I think GRRM uses "lickspittle" specifically for Pycelle. I find it so pathetic it is very funny 

 

[Snowmelter]

The Mage warns Sam not to talk about dragons unless he fancies poison in his porridge.  He apparently believes the Maesters are actively working against anything supernatural as it's not part of the world they are building.  There is also the theory that the Maesters slowly did away with the Targ dragons.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

3 hours ago, Snowmelter said:

The Mage warns Sam not to talk about dragons unless he fancies poison in his porridge.  He apparently believes the Maesters are actively working against anything supernatural as it's not part of the world they are building.  There is also the theory that the Maesters slowly did away with the Targ dragons.

Very nice.... And I believe they did all in their power to get rid of supernatural things as well

[Sigella]

5 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Very nice.... And I believe they did all in their power to get rid of supernatural things as well

Except the glass candles

And also: do they know how to re-work valyrian steel? (thoose who study the higher mysteries get a link of valyrian steel)

[The Fattest Leech]

10 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Except the glass candles

And also: do they know how to re-work valyrian steel? (thoose who study the higher mysteries get a link of valyrian steel)

Exactly! It seems as though the maesters, I guess the highest ranking ones, are trying to rid the world of magic and sometimes that means coveting that magic for their own because it means power, and he who has the power wins. 

They cant "own" dragons and weirwood trees and CotF, so they destroy those sources. But they can own the magic objects and spells for V-steel. 

[Therae]

Pycelle didn't really show maester bias so much as Tywin bias.

And I wouldn't exactly call it lying or cheating, as I think he genuinely believed what he was saying, but just about everything Luwin told Bran about magic, the Children, and the giants was wrong, so Luwin himself seems to have been pretty well indoctrinated while being genuinely loyal to the house he was serving--which seems like a REALLY effective way for the maesters to impact the thinking of the nobles.

[White Ravens]

44 minutes ago, Therae said:

Pycelle didn't really show maester bias so much as Tywin bias.

And I wouldn't exactly call it lying or cheating, as I think he genuinely believed what he was saying, but just about everything Luwin told Bran about magic, the Children, and the giants was wrong, so Luwin himself seems to have been pretty well indoctrinated while being genuinely loyal to the house he was serving--which seems like a REALLY effective way for the maesters to impact the thinking of the nobles.

Luwin is hard to figure out.  He earned a Valyrian link in his chain so he therefore knows more about magic than the average maester, and yet he tells Bran that magic doesn't exist, which is consistent with the Maesters poo-pooing magic.  In other words he tows the party line and teaches the Stark children that magic doesn't exist.  But then when Winterfell is attacked he is speared and knows that he is bleeding to death so he crawls to the heart tree in the Godswood and feeds his blood to soil beneath the weirwood. 

[White Ravens]

6 hours ago, Sigella said:

And also: do they know how to re-work valyrian steel? (thoose who study the higher mysteries get a link of valyrian steel)

This is a little bit nit-picky but as long as the maesters have a stash of Valyrian steel rings/links they wouldn't need to reforge Valyrian steel to incorporate it into a maester's chain because they can forge the easier to work metals that they join to them. 

[Therae]

8 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Luwin is hard to figure out.  He earned a Valyrian link in his chain so he therefore knows more about magic than the average maester, and yet he tells Bran that magic doesn't exist, which is consistent with the Maesters poo-pooing magic.  In other words he tows the party line and teaches the Stark children that magic doesn't exist.  But then when Winterfell is attacked he is speared and knows that he is bleeding to death so he crawls to the heart tree in the Godswood and feeds his blood to soil beneath the weirwood. 

I think he legitimately believes the party line--if there is an anti-magic conspiracy at the Citadel, it's pretty perfect if you can get someone like Luwin, who likely wanted magic to exist (he did choose to study it), and "prove" to him that it doesn't. The archmaester illuminati would dictate the requirements for that Valyrian steel link, after all, and they can cherrypick the bibliography. The glass candles wouldn't have been working when Luwin was still forging his chain, so that wouldn't have presented any problems.

I don't think he was consciously performing blood magic at the time of his death; it may just be that that was the one place left in Winterfell where the destruction wasn't evident or that he was a Northman himself and wanted to feel close to the Old Gods at the end, or that he thought it was the most likely place to see Bran and Rickon again.

Anyway, I think if there is a conspiracy, it's germinated by teaching the maesters that there is no magic, so they teach the nobles the same. Someone like Luwin would work toward the desired effect without ever being complicit.

[Praetor Xyn]

I know it's pretty taboo here but PJ has an entire series about this called Dragonless Ambitions where he references Dunk and Egg, TWOIAF, and characters in our story like Barbary Dustin and Maester Marwyn, makes pretty convincing arguments that the Maesters were responsible for the Stark Baratheon Tully Arryn alliance, and trying to get the other great houses in there as well but failed due to events we heard about in our story that I'm fuzzy on the details of, such as Oberyn mocking one of Elias suitors and making her lose interest, the marriage of Jaime to Lysa Tully being rejected, the marriage of Cersei to Oberyn being reject, etc.

Also makes an argument that a couple of letters during the Dance of the Dragons completely turned that conflict around, etc.

In short he makes the argument that the Maesters in the worst case hold a large amount of responsibility for eliminating both the Targaryens and Dragons.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

All men must serve...

 

Robert's face was purple. "Out," he croaked, choking on his rage. "Out, damn you, I'm done with you. What are you waiting for? Go, run back to Winterfell. And make certain I never look on your face again, or I swear, I'll have your head on a spike!"

Ned bowed, and turned on his heel without another word. He could feel Robert's eyes on his back. As he strode from the council chambers, the discussion resumed with scarcely a pause. "On Braavos there is a society called the Faceless Men," Grand Maester Pycelle offered. 

"Do you have any idea how costly they are?" Littlefinger complained. "You could hire an army of common sellswords for half the price, and that's for a merchant. I don't dare think what they might ask for a princess."

[White Ravens]

1 hour ago, Therae said:

I think he legitimately believes the party line--if there is an anti-magic conspiracy at the Citadel, it's pretty perfect if you can get someone like Luwin, who likely wanted magic to exist (he did choose to study it), and "prove" to him that it doesn't. The archmaester illuminati would dictate the requirements for that Valyrian steel link, after all, and they can cherrypick the bibliography. The glass candles wouldn't have been working when Luwin was still forging his chain, so that wouldn't have presented any problems.

I don't think he was consciously performing blood magic at the time of his death; it may just be that that was the one place left in Winterfell where the destruction wasn't evident or that he was a Northman himself and wanted to feel close to the Old Gods at the end, or that he thought it was the most likely place to see Bran and Rickon again.

Anyway, I think if there is a conspiracy, it's germinated by teaching the maesters that there is no magic, so they teach the nobles the same. Someone like Luwin would work toward the desired effect without ever being complicit.

You may be right about him not consciously performing blood magic in the godswood.  The Conclave in the Citadel downplays the existence and importance of magic but recent events including a red comet in the night sky, direwolves inhabiting Winterfell with the Stark children and rumors of dragons returning to the world may have convinced him that the Citadel is wrong about magic.  Maybe he thought he could influence upcoming events for Bran and Rickon (whom he was sworn to protect) and that is why he chose to die under the heart tree and begged Osha to give him the gift of mercy right there.

[Sigella]

22 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Exactly! It seems as though the maesters, I guess the highest ranking ones, are trying to rid the world of magic and sometimes that means coveting that magic for their own because it means power, and he who has the power wins. 

They cant "own" dragons and weirwood trees and CotF, so they destroy those sources. But they can own the magic objects and spells for V-steel. 

Yes, the fact that they even have an option to study the higher mysteries says something. 

16 hours ago, White Ravens said:

This is a little bit nit-picky but as long as the maesters have a stash of Valyrian steel rings/links they wouldn't need to reforge Valyrian steel to incorporate it into a maester's chain because they can forge the easier to work metals that they join to them. 

Or they just order them from Norvos

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

23 hours ago, Praetor Xyn said:

I know it's pretty taboo here but PJ has an entire series about this called Dragonless Ambitions where he references Dunk and Egg, TWOIAF, and characters in our story like Barbary Dustin and Maester Marwyn, makes pretty convincing arguments that the Maesters were responsible for the Stark Baratheon Tully Arryn alliance, and trying to get the other great houses in there as well but failed due to events we heard about in our story that I'm fuzzy on the details of, such as Oberyn mocking one of Elias suitors and making her lose interest, the marriage of Jaime to Lysa Tully being rejected, the marriage of Cersei to Oberyn being reject, etc.

Also makes an argument that a couple of letters during the Dance of the Dragons completely turned that conflict around, etc.

In short he makes the argument that the Maesters in the worst case hold a large amount of responsibility for eliminating both the Targaryens and Dragons.

One of his better videos imo. But idk he's so.... Wrong 

[Yuzzybus]

When it comes to Maester conspiracies, I always think about the part in The Princess and the Queen when Lucerys gives Borros Baratheon Rhaenyra's letter.

"Never a man of letters, [Borros] handed the queen's letter to his maester, who cracked the seal and whispered the message into his lordship's ear. A frown stole across Lord Borros face."

Whether or not the maester misrepresented the tone or contents of the letter for a political end, the complete control over communication is suggestive.