One-eyed Misbehavin

Lord of Bones kicking Jons butt

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Do you think Mance did this just to test Jon's ability? To piss him off as "lord of bones" or possibly make him second guess his abilities? A combo?

Bc he probably realized Qhorin sacrificed himself pretty quickly.  Mance had to be completely confident he would win handily.

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I think he did it to test Jon's ability. I don't Mance as one to make him guess his abilities or piss him off. 

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Just now, KarlDanski said:

I think he did it to test Jon's ability. I don't Mance as one to make him guess his abilities or piss him off. 

Yeah I completely agree just curious

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9 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Do you think Mance did this just to test Jon's ability? To piss him off as "lord of bones" or possibly make him second guess his abilities? A combo?

Bc he probably realized Qhorin sacrificed himself pretty quickly.  Mance had to be completely confident he would win handily.

He is Arthur Dayne.

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He could be testing Jon but maybe it was nothing.  They were sparring after all and it's better to hit than be hit.  Hit or be hit. 

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7 minutes ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

He could be testing Jon but maybe it was nothing.  They were sparring after all and it's better to hit than be hit.  Hit or be hit. 

It seemed slightly.... More 

I will say Mance stayed in character pretty well so I could be mistaking that for confrontation/antagonism. And yeah I feel you on the sparring Mance even held back so I would imagine those "blunted sparring swords" didn't feel good at all. 

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I don't think Mance needs a excuse to kick Jon's ass after he betrayed him and stole his baby. 

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44 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

My b I forget these things. 

Note how "Mance" reacted when picking up the two handed sword he requested and how he completely destroyed Jon who is a great swordsman without even trying. Who else could do that other than Arthur Dayne. There is a lot other than this to support this theory.

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1 hour ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Do you think Mance did this just to test Jon's ability? To piss him off as "lord of bones" or possibly make him second guess his abilities? A combo?

Bc he probably realized Qhorin sacrificed himself pretty quickly.  Mance had to be completely confident he would win handily.

I agree with the idea that Mance was testing Jon. Mance knows the watch, he knew Qhorin, and he probably has an idea about Jon in the future and wanted to see for himself. There is also this that seems to show Mance was testing the Snowy One and also giving a glimpse (or hint) that he was being glamoured:

  • A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV

    In the King's Tower, Jon was stripped of his weapons and admitted to the royal presence. The solar was hot and crowded. Stannis and his captains were gathered over the map of the north. The wrong-way rangers were amongst them. Sigorn was there as well, the young Magnar of Thenn, clad in a leather hauberk sewn with bronze scales. Rattleshirt sat scratching at the manacle on his wrist with a cracked yellow fingernail. Brown stubble covered his sunken cheeks and receding chin, and strands of dirty hair hung across his eyes. "Here he comes," he said when he saw Jon, "the brave boy who slew Mance Rayder when he was caged and bound." The big square-cut gem that adorned his iron cuff glimmered redly. "Do you like my ruby, Snow? A token o' love from Lady Red."
and then at the kicking ass fight you can see that Mance was testing Jon without any intent to cause real harm:

 

  • A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

His chance came on Rattleshirt's next backswing. Jon threw himself forward, bulling into the other man, and they went down together, legs entangled. Steel slammed on steel. Both men lost their swords as they rolled on the hard ground. The wildling drove a knee between Jon's legs. Jon lashed out with a mailed fist. Somehow Rattleshirt ended up on top, with Jon's head in his hands. He smashed it against the ground, then wrenched his visor open. "If I had me a dagger, you'd be less an eye by now," he snarled, before Horse and Iron Emmett dragged him off the lord commander's chest. "Let go o' me, you bloody crows," he roared.
Jon struggled to one knee. His head was ringing, and his mouth was full of blood. He spat it out and said, "Well fought."
"You flatter yourself, crow. I never broke a sweat."
"Next time you will," said Jon. Dolorous Edd helped him to his feet and unbuckled his helm. It had acquired several deep dents that had not been there when he'd donned it. "Release him." Jon tossed the helm to Hop-Robin, who dropped it.
"My lord," said Iron Emmett, "he threatened your life, we all heard. He said that if he had a dagger—"
"He does have a dagger. Right there on his belt." There is always someone quicker and stronger, Ser Rodrik had once told Jon and Robb. He's the man you want to face in the yard before you need to face his like upon a battlefield.

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Also, Jon had just previously asked for three of Iron Emmett's best trainees to attack him simultaneously and had kicked their asses.   He was strutting a bit in doing that.

So I think Mance was amused with the idea of putting Jon in his place... just a little.

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4 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Note how "Mance" reacted when picking up the two handed sword he requested and how he completely destroyed Jon who is a great swordsman without even trying. Who else could do that other than Arthur Dayne. There is a lot other than this to support this theory.

Are Arthur Dayne and Mance Rayder the only two people in the history of Westeros to fight with a great sword? What evidence do we have that Jon is a "great swordsman." 

I could think of many people that could destroy Jon in a sword fight.

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26 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Are Arthur Dayne and Mance Rayder the only two people in the history of Westeros to fight with a great sword? What evidence do we have that Jon is a "great swordsman." 

I could think of many people that could destroy Jon in a sword fight.

He's trolling my thread..... I hope 

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49 minutes ago, JNR said:

Also, Jon had just previously asked for three of Iron Emmett's best trainees to attack him simultaneously and had kicked their asses.   He was strutting a bit in doing that.

So I think Mance was amused with the idea of putting Jon in his place... just a little.

No doubt about it 

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I agree with the idea that Mance was testing Jon. Mance knows the watch, he knew Qhorin, and he probably has an idea about Jon in the future and wanted to see for himself. There is also this that seems to show Mance was testing the Snowy One and also giving a glimpse (or hint) that he was being glamoured:

  • A Dance with Dragons - Jon IV

    In the King's Tower, Jon was stripped of his weapons and admitted to the royal presence. The solar was hot and crowded. Stannis and his captains were gathered over the map of the north. The wrong-way rangers were amongst them. Sigorn was there as well, the young Magnar of Thenn, clad in a leather hauberk sewn with bronze scales. Rattleshirt sat scratching at the manacle on his wrist with a cracked yellow fingernail. Brown stubble covered his sunken cheeks and receding chin, and strands of dirty hair hung across his eyes. "Here he comes," he said when he saw Jon, "the brave boy who slew Mance Rayder when he was caged and bound." The big square-cut gem that adorned his iron cuff glimmered redly. "Do you like my ruby, Snow? A token o' love from Lady Red."
and then at the kicking ass fight you can see that Mance was testing Jon without any intent to cause real harm:

 

  • A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

His chance came on Rattleshirt's next backswing. Jon threw himself forward, bulling into the other man, and they went down together, legs entangled. Steel slammed on steel. Both men lost their swords as they rolled on the hard ground. The wildling drove a knee between Jon's legs. Jon lashed out with a mailed fist. Somehow Rattleshirt ended up on top, with Jon's head in his hands. He smashed it against the ground, then wrenched his visor open. "If I had me a dagger, you'd be less an eye by now," he snarled, before Horse and Iron Emmett dragged him off the lord commander's chest. "Let go o' me, you bloody crows," he roared.
Jon struggled to one knee. His head was ringing, and his mouth was full of blood. He spat it out and said, "Well fought."
"You flatter yourself, crow. I never broke a sweat."
"Next time you will," said Jon. Dolorous Edd helped him to his feet and unbuckled his helm. It had acquired several deep dents that had not been there when he'd donned it. "Release him." Jon tossed the helm to Hop-Robin, who dropped it.
"My lord," said Iron Emmett, "he threatened your life, we all heard. He said that if he had a dagger—"
"He does have a dagger. Right there on his belt." There is always someone quicker and stronger, Ser Rodrik had once told Jon and Robb. He's the man you want to face in the yard before you need to face his like upon a battlefield.

There's my quote. Much appreciated 

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4 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I don't think Mance needs a excuse to kick Jon's ass after he betrayed him and stole his baby. 

Bruises heal, he may have felt very angry but he could have slipped down Jon's visor and daggered his face. Like he had the chance

I would if someone "stole my baby"

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6 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Are Arthur Dayne and Mance Rayder the only two people in the history of Westeros to fight with a great sword? What evidence do we have that Jon is a "great swordsman." 

I could think of many people that could destroy Jon in a sword fight.

Jon Snow is said to be better than Robb Stark. 

Jon Snow kicks the shit out of everyone at Castle Black and fights against multiple opponents at once.

He kills wildling left and right.

Allthough Qhorin wanted Jon to kill him it still looked convincing which means Jon must be a good fighter.

Is anyone really saying Jon is not a good fighter? 

Sure but Mance was faster than Jon was despite Jon having a one handed sword and Mance having a two handed sword. He clearly without doubt is the greatest fighter we have seen in the books so far with evidence and he completely destroyed Jon Snow without trying.

Who is the best fighter in asoiaf that wields a two handed sword? Le Arthur Dayne.

 

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Posted (edited)

48 minutes ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Jon Snow is said to be better than Robb Stark. 

Jon Snow kicks the shit out of everyone at Castle Black and fights against multiple opponents at once.

He kills wildling left and right.

Allthough Qhorin wanted Jon to kill him it still looked convincing which means Jon must be a good fighter.

Is anyone really saying Jon is not a good fighter? 

Sure but Mance was faster than Jon was despite Jon having a one handed sword and Mance having a two handed sword. He clearly without doubt is the greatest fighter we have seen in the books so far with evidence and he completely destroyed Jon Snow without trying.

Who is the best fighter in asoiaf that wields a two handed sword? Le Arthur Dayne.

 

"The Halfhand could have killed me as easy as you swat a bug." Jon Snow

Ghost also was a huge part in Jon Snow killing the Halfhand which is why Mance believes he was able to do it in the first place.

Jon fights against multiple Night's Watch trainees, not the cream of the crop of the Kingsguard. 

Jon loses regularly to Iron Emmett while sparring at Castle Black. Jon's a competent swordsman but he's not even the best in the Night's Watch.

Gregor Clegane fights with a great sword and I'd put my money on him over Mance Rayder any day. 

With your rational Iron Emmett is either the 1st or 2nd best swordsman alive because he like Mance Rayder has bested Jon before.

 

Edited by Ralphis Baratheon

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16 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

"The Halfhand could have killed me as easy as you swat a bug." Jon Snow

Ghost also was a huge part in Jon Snow killing the Halfhand which is why Mance believes he was able to do it in the first place.

Jon fights against multiple Night's Watch trainees, not the cream of the crop of the Kingsguard. 

Jon loses regularly to Iron Emmett while sparring at Castle Black. Jon's a competent swordsman but he's not even the best in the Night's Watch.

Gregor Clegane fights with a great sword and I'd put my money on him over Mance Rayder any day. 

With your rational Iron Emmett is either the 1st or 2nd best swordsman alive because he like Mance Rayder has bested Jon before.

 

My rational isnt that anyone who beats Jon is the best fighter of all time ever in the history of all time.

The way he rejoices when he picks up the two handed sword and the way he completely destroys jon landing blows with it as quickly as a hummingbird can beat it's wings. He didn't even try from the look of it and it was by far the greatest display of sword skills we have seen to date in the books don't you agree?

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