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Good Guy Garlan

Add this to Cersei's ever-growing list of mistakes

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Posted (edited)

Why didn't she get Tommen to legitimize Aurane Waters and have him push his claim on Driftmark? 

It would've 

A ) Given the Lannisters/Tommen administration an important seat on the Narrow Sea, even a good base to besiege/attack Dragonstone from.

B ) Punished the other Velaryons (Monterys, I guess) for their continued support of Stannis and sent a message to other Houses in a similar position.

C ) Bought Aurane's loyalty to the Crown, which would've prevented the drommonds fiasco.

D ) Given Cersei a more reliable sea power/naval fleet in case she couldn't count on the Redwynes. 

Bonus: A legitimized Aurane would've been a less scandalous boy toy, in case Cersei felt like having fun on the side with budget Rhaegar. 

Note: I'm aware Monterys would still have a better claim to Driftmark than Aurane, but he could easily be labeled a traitor and problem solved. 

Edited by Good Guy Garlan

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Nice catch. Aurane hints at wanting a proper lordship, IIRC. Cersei believes he wants Dragonstone and concludes that there he 'reaches too high' or some such, and so thinks of gifting him Rosby. Driftmark would make a lot more sense as he actually would have some claim to it as a legitimised bastard.

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7 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

Nice catch. Aurane hints at wanting a proper lordship, IIRC. Cersei believes he wants Dragonstone and concludes that there he 'reaches too high' or some such, and so thinks of gifting him Rosby. Driftmark would make a lot more sense as he actually would have some claim to it as a legitimised bastard.

Great point! Cersei really dropped the ball with this. 

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Wow, I never considered this.

That IS a very, very good point!

Just another example of Cersei being stupid.

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12 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Great point! Cersei really dropped the ball with this. 

If ASOIAF were a cheesy American sitcom, that would probably be a catchphrase.

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3 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

C ) Bought Aurane's loyalty to the Crown, which would've prevented the drommonds fiasco.

This one's kinda dubious, since even now we really don't know too much about his motives and true goals. Even if she had tried to make him lord of Driftmark, he may have still stolen her ships and gone over to Stannis' side. The guy seems to be a power-hungry, crazy sellsword type; something tells me he wouldn't ultimately be happy ruling some castle. Yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me

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On 4/16/2017 at 8:22 PM, Good Guy Garlan said:

Why didn't she get Tommen to legitimize Aurane Waters and have him push his claim on Driftmark? 

It would've 

A ) Given the Lannisters/Tommen administration an important seat on the Narrow Sea, even a good base to besiege/attack Dragonstone from.

B ) Punished the other Velaryons (Monterys, I guess) for their continued support of Stannis and sent a message to other Houses in a similar position.

C ) Bought Aurane's loyalty to the Crown, which would've prevented the drommonds fiasco.

D ) Given Cersei a more reliable sea power/naval fleet in case she couldn't count on the Redwynes. 

Bonus: A legitimized Aurane would've been a less scandalous boy toy, in case Cersei felt like having fun on the side with budget Rhaegar. 

Note: I'm aware Monterys would still have a better claim to Driftmark than Aurane, but he could easily be labeled a traitor and problem solved. 

I'll go through each point: 

A) Monterys is a vassal to the Iron throne, and driftmark would be a good base to besiege/attack Dragonstone from regardless of who is in charge. Heck, I'm pretty sure the Redwyns dock their ships there already.

B: Cersei is actually pulling a Tywin by not revoking Monterys' title. Tywin didn't believe in punishing the underlings, only the leader of the revolt. If she tried, Monterys might revolt once again. Labling someone a traitor doesn't immediately sap all their power. Monterys is still on his island fortress with whatever remains of his army. 

C) If giving a bastard a seat on the small council which rules the realm wouldn't secure his loyalty, I doubt much will. Then again, Aurane thirsts for land. So he might not have sailed down to the stepstones and become a pirate king if he had other options. So I'll give this one to you, but refer to B. 

D) Again, Monterys is a vassal to the Iron Throne now and is likely supplementing the Redwyn fleet itself or had all/most of its own ships destroyed at the Battle of the Blackwater, thus making it useless.

I think its smart she didn't give it too him. And we all know Cersei doesn't like bastards. If it wasn't for Aurane looking like Rhaegar, Cersei might have given him to Qyburn upon his request. 

 

Good thought though. I love it when people think outside the box. Don't stop posting. 

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3 hours ago, Maester Saramello said:

I'll go through each point: 

A) Monterys is a vassal to the Iron throne, and driftmark would be a good base to besiege/attack Dragonstone from regardless of who is in charge. Heck, I'm pretty sure the Redwyns dock their ships there already.

B: Cersei is actually pulling a Tywin by not revoking Monterys' title. Tywin didn't believe in punishing the underlings, only the leader of the revolt. If she tried, Monterys might revolt once again. Labling someone a traitor doesn't immediately sap all their power. Monterys is still on his island fortress with whatever remains of his army. 

C) If giving a bastard a seat on the small council which rules the realm wouldn't secure his loyalty, I doubt much will. Then again, Aurane thirsts for land. So he might not have sailed down to the stepstones and become a pirate king if he had other options. So I'll give this one to you, but refer to B. 

D) Again, Monterys is a vassal to the Iron Throne now and is likely supplementing the Redwyn fleet itself or had all/most of its own ships destroyed at the Battle of the Blackwater, thus making it useless.

I think its smart she didn't give it too him. And we all know Cersei doesn't like bastards. If it wasn't for Aurane looking like Rhaegar, Cersei might have given him to Qyburn upon his request. 

 

Good thought though. I love it when people think outside the box. Don't stop posting. 

Monterys is still fighting for Stannis. There are Velaryon men with Stannis at the Wall. Jon sees the seahorse sigil when Stannis attacks Mance.

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Well, I checked the wiki, and.....you're right WSmith. In that case I agree with those who say this is a stupid mistake by Cersei. Aurane is a claimant to Driftmark and Tommen would gladly legitimize him, he does love using that royal seal. 

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"Add this to Cersei's GRRM's ever-growing list of mistakes", eh?

Truthfully I imagine the reason might be, if reason there is, that there's simply more to learn about the Velaryons and George doesn't want to draw our attention to them yet. They were a very big deal for hundreds of years, but we don't know shit about them. Even less than the Hightowers or Daynes.

16 hours ago, Maester Saramello said:

If giving a bastard a seat on the small council which rules the realm wouldn't secure his loyalty, I doubt much will. Then again, Aurane thirsts for land. So he might not have sailed down to the stepstones and become a pirate king if he had other options.

Disagree here. Small Councillors serve at the pleasure of the king, so Aurane's power and importance is entirely dependent on Cersei. Driftmark would give him power in his own right and a more secure base. I doubt he had long-term plans to steal the fleet; rather, I think Cersei's arrest presented him with a choice: go back to obscurity and relative poverty now that your patron is gone, or become king of the pirates. It's a choice we've all had to face at one point in our lives, and I think he made the right call.

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4 hours ago, Illyrio Po'Marties said:

Small Councillors serve at the pleasure of the king, so Aurane's power and importance is entirely dependent on Cersei.

That's the crux of the matter, I think. Cersei didn't want Aurane to be independent. All of his power derived solely from Cersei, which meant he could never be turned against her. Nobody (the Tyrells, for example) could offer him something better, as he always had more to lose if he turned on Cersei. Giving him Driftmark would've allowed him power outside of her, which would in turn allow him to be seduced away from Cersei, as he'd have a position she couldn't easily revoke.

A ) Dragonstone was already being besieged. Cersei didn't require a closer base to attack from.

B ) Yes, it would've punished the Velaryons who are loyal to Stannis, but it would also reinforce their loyalty to Stannis, because they've now got no other option but to continue his war, if they want to retrieve their house. Not the best thing to do.

C ) I don't think it'd make him particularly loyal, either. He'd have done exactly as he did now, but perhaps he wouldn't have taken all of the ships. Maybe he'd have just returned to Driftmark. Either way wouldn't have really helped Cersei.

D ) Any ships the Velaryons have wouldn't have been sitting around at Driftmark, Stannis would've made use of them. Legitimizing Aurane wouldn't have magicked some ships into being.

Not to mention, legitimizing a bastard to take over an ancient House probably wouldn't sit too well with most of her allies. I can hear the mutterings of discontent already. Any lords who don't want a bastard given rule of such a prestigious House would be displeased, as would any who don't like Aurane; these together make up pretty much everyone ever, so I don't see it as such a good idea. At least not until Aurane has proven his worth and loyalty.

It could serve better as a potential future reward; something for Aurane to strive towards. "Be competent, be loyal, and perhaps one day you might be Aurane Velaryon." That'd keep him loyal for a while. Cersei keeping her options open here wasn't a mistake, if you ask me.

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Posted (edited)

Though Cersei is a fav of mine, I'll be the first to point out all of her (wildly entertaining) follies. I see the value in the point that she didn't do much to secure the fealty of Aurane. His theft of the newly built royal fleet is yet another crippling blow to KL in regards to its military strength and already substantial debt.I agree he was likely motivated by the arrest of Cersei rather than some master plot to set himself up as a pirate king. To put more context to that situation, I believe he suggested and was given permission to sail the bay with the new fleet in order to inspire order in KL due to the unrest following Margaery's arrest for adultery. To me, this suggests he probably didn't dare dock again for fear of his own personal safety, as he and Qyburn were Cersei's pets. Court favorites hardly ever survive once the favoring lord is displaced, and it was more than hinted that he was aware of and capitalizing on Cersei's fancy of him. 

Another mistake she makes with Aurane is that she takes his suggestion of appointing young captains versus experienced leaders of the the Battle of the Blackwater that have established their loyalty. Of course, Pycelle suggested using the experienced leaders to Cersei, so she impulsively slapped it down. This ideally makes it easier for Aurane to convince the fleet to jump ship (pun intended) on Cersei and KL when shit hits the fan for her. The promise of glory, gold, and women is usually all it takes to convince young men of anything in that age. I don't think that this was necessarily an intentional gambit on Aurane's part, he had much more to gain by continued service on the small council than a fleet of unfinished and poorly manned ships. Like someone else mentioned, dangling Driftmark in front of him like a carrot on a stick would be an effective way of inspiring a long tenure of loyalty.

I personally would think that leaving Driftmark unharassed for so long seems like an odd choice, especially because as of A Storm of Swords the current Lord Velaryon is a 6 year old boy (Aurane's half-nephew). But, Tywin seemed unconcerned and he would certainly know better than I would. I would disagree with the statement that Tywin didn't like to punish anyone but the leaders as his primary tactic. That sounds more like Robert Baratheon, who also had a penchant for winning former enemies over to his side. Tywin's primary tactic has always been whatever it takes to win and place himself (and his family) in the best possible position.

Edited by Traverys

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