Mistaken PoV

[NorthGirl]

I was just thinking about Sansa and Tyrion's wedding and I realised that every single time, I forget that it was actually written from Tyrion's PoV and I was wondering if there are other chapters where you've even mistakenly attribute it to another's PoV.

And beyond that, are there events you would like to see from an alternate PoV, from the pool of existing PoVs?

[Nevets]

16 minutes ago, NorthGirl said:

I was just thinking about Sansa and Tyrion's wedding and I realised that every single time, I forget that it was actually written from Tyrion's PoV and I was wondering if there are other chapters where you've even mistakenly attribute it to another's PoV.

And beyond that, are there events you would like to see from an alternate PoV, from the pool of existing PoVs?

Actually, you were right the first time.  It is written from Sansa's POV.  It is Chapter 28 - Sansa III.

As for alternate POVs, Arya's fight with Joff (Arya), Ned's execution (Sansa), and the riot (Sansa)

[Renly's Banana]

Yeah, Arianne should have been the only POV in Dorne. Arys and Areo should never have had any chapters. All of their stuff would've been infinitely more interesting through her eyes.

[Good Guy Garlan]

23 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

Yeah, Arianne should have been the only POV in Dorne. Arys and Areo should never have had any chapters. All of their stuff would've been infinitely more interesting through her eyes.

This x 100000. And the same goes for the Iron Islands, Asha should've been the only POV there. 

I also don't think Jon Connington's POV was necessary in ADWD. 

[Renly's Banana]

Oh crap, I just remembered one! The epilogue of Dance. I really, really wish we had seen that through Pycelle's POV instead of Kevan. It wouldn't have been hard to do, either, just reverse the roles. Pycelle is asked to come to Kevan's solar and been killed there afterward.
The reason is cause I think Pycelle is one of those characters that has a ton of hidden information and opinions on everybody. It would have been neat to see through his facade for a bit, a la Show!Pycelle, who fakes being old and slow. Also to see his opinion on Cersei's stupid bumbling, the Tyrells, Tywin's death, Tyrion, Varys, etc. It's a shame cause he's dead now and we'll never get that juicy inside knowledge.

21 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

This x 100000. And the same goes for the Iron Islands, Asha should've been the only POV there. 

I also don't think Jon Connington's POV was necessary in ADWD. 

I'm always kinda hesitant to say who needed to be cut --- except for Arys who 101% did NOT need to be a POV. Cause you think we don't need someone like the Damphair as a POV, but then bam! He's thrust into a really interesting scenario where he's the only POV around and suddenly he becomes a good read. I hate Hotah too, but I have to believe GRRM included him in there for a bigger purpose. I HAVE to believe (nay, pray) that his stuff in High Hermitage is big and important. Same with Victarion, another POV I fuckin' despise. 

So... I dunno, it's conflicting. On the one hand I wanted less POVs, but on the other, I see why GRRM included them: he knows where the story is headed and knows who needs to be where. I think his biggest fault was not introducing so many new people, but not giving them enough to do. Maybe if Hotah have had an actual personality and done and said more, he wouldn't be so bad. 
But whatever. I'm pissin' in the wind here. 

[Therae]

18 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

I'm always kinda hesitant to say who needed to be cut --- except for Arys who 101% did NOT need to be a POV. Cause you think we don't need someone like the Damphair as a POV, but then bam! He's thrust into a really interesting scenario where he's the only POV around and suddenly he becomes a good read. I hate Hotah too, but I have to believe GRRM included him in there for a bigger purpose. I HAVE to believe (nay, pray) that his stuff in High Hermitage is big and important. Same with Victarion, another POV I fuckin' despise. 

With you on that. I try to tell myself that once it's in context, a lot of what seems like a weary slog now will become crucial setup. But it's pretty hard to apply that to Arys, and even Quentyn, though it's easier to suppose that Q's adventures do set up something that's coming than A getting himself seduced into something stupid. I feel like if I never read about anyone amidst any company of sellswords again, I will be really, really happy.

[NorthGirl]

2 hours ago, Nevets said:

Actually, you were right the first time.  It is written from Sansa's POV.  It is Chapter 28 - Sansa III.

As for alternate POVs, Arya's fight with Joff (Arya), Ned's execution (Sansa), and the riot (Sansa)

oh, I don't remember what I switched in my mind then. Maybe I remembered originally it was Tyrion, then got corrects but still kept the memory of being wrong?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

Yeah, Arianne should have been the only POV in Dorne. Arys and Areo should never have had any chapters. All of their stuff would've been infinitely more interesting through her eyes.

Hmm, I think Areo makes sense because we need a contrasting view from Arianne's and now that she's gone, he will still be our eyes near Doran. I agree Arya wasn't exactly essential, even if it's interesting to see the clear disconnect between the reality and his perception. I also would have rather the chapter in Dance be from hers than Areo's.

[James West]

Hello northgirl.  You bet there are events I would have liked from a different point of view. 

1   Bran's fall from the castle tower. 

2.  Edmure's wedding.

 

 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

3 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

This x 100000. And the same goes for the Iron Islands, Asha should've been the only POV there. 

I also don't think Jon Connington's POV was necessary in ADWD. 

Make that x 10000000000000 about Dorne, the Iron Islands, and Griff.

2 hours ago, Therae said:

With you on that. I try to tell myself that once it's in context, a lot of what seems like a weary slog now will become crucial setup. But it's pretty hard to apply that to Arys, and even Quentyn, though it's easier to suppose that Q's adventures do set up something that's coming than A getting himself seduced into something stupid. I feel like if I never read about anyone amidst any company of sellswords again, I will be really, really happy.

Quentyn was soooo awful and useless.  I felt this way about almost all Essos chapters in ADWD - my least favorite book because of Essos, which was a cool setting to visit but Tyrion was insufferable there and I wasn't invested in anything going on in Mereen.

Back to the OP, I would love to have read Tormund's view on one of the last chapters with Jon just to get a wildling perspective.  I don't think it would be too enlightening but who knows.

Reading anything from Osha's perspective would be great.

Stannis and Renly's parley from either one of their perspectives.

[Good Guy Garlan]

3 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

Oh crap, I just remembered one! The epilogue of Dance. I really, really wish we had seen that through Pycelle's POV instead of Kevan. It wouldn't have been hard to do, either, just reverse the roles. Pycelle is asked to come to Kevan's solar and been killed there afterward.
The reason is cause I think Pycelle is one of those characters that has a ton of hidden information and opinions on everybody. It would have been neat to see through his facade for a bit, a la Show!Pycelle, who fakes being old and slow. Also to see his opinion on Cersei's stupid bumbling, the Tyrells, Tywin's death, Tyrion, Varys, etc. It's a shame cause he's dead now and we'll never get that juicy inside knowledge.

I'm always kinda hesitant to say who needed to be cut --- except for Arys who 101% did NOT need to be a POV. Cause you think we don't need someone like the Damphair as a POV, but then bam! He's thrust into a really interesting scenario where he's the only POV around and suddenly he becomes a good read. I hate Hotah too, but I have to believe GRRM included him in there for a bigger purpose. I HAVE to believe (nay, pray) that his stuff in High Hermitage is big and important. Same with Victarion, another POV I fuckin' despise. 

So... I dunno, it's conflicting. On the one hand I wanted less POVs, but on the other, I see why GRRM included them: he knows where the story is headed and knows who needs to be where. I think his biggest fault was not introducing so many new people, but not giving them enough to do. Maybe if Hotah have had an actual personality and done and said more, he wouldn't be so bad. 
But whatever. I'm pissin' in the wind here. 

Oh, I agree. Who knows, maybe the Damphair and Victarion and - Seven help me - maybe even Hotah turn out to be important and therefore need a POV in Winds. But that's in Winds. I would argue that Feast would work the same (or even better) by removing the POVs of Vic, Dampy, Arys and Hotah. 

GRRM could've introduced the POV of Victarion in ADWD, where he's actually doing something, kinda. Likewise, if Dampy and Hotah are doing something important in Winds, then introduce their POVS then, not earlier when they're doing jackshit.

[Renly's Banana]

23 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Oh, I agree. Who knows, maybe the Damphair and Victarion and - Seven help me - maybe even Hotah turn out to be important and therefore need a POV in Winds. But that's in Winds. I would argue that Feast would work the same (or even better) by removing the POVs of Vic, Dampy, Arys and Hotah. 

GRRM could've introduced the POV of Victarion in ADWD, where he's actually doing something, kinda. Likewise, if Dampy and Hotah are doing something important in Winds, then introduce their POVS then, not earlier when they're doing jackshit.

Right, but then you run the risk of people complaining that they were introduced too late into the narrative. Hell, that's already a common complaint as is for the people introduced during Feast.

At least he's already given his word that we won't be getting any new POVs, so that should lessen the pain. Maybe. Hopefully.

3 hours ago, Therae said:

With you on that. I try to tell myself that once it's in context, a lot of what seems like a weary slog now will become crucial setup. But it's pretty hard to apply that to Arys, and even Quentyn, though it's easier to suppose that Q's adventures do set up something that's coming than A getting himself seduced into something stupid. I feel like if I never read about anyone amidst any company of sellswords again, I will be really, really happy.

I don't even know what to make of Quentyn still. He's like Hotah for me, I have to assume something important is in store for him later on. Hopefully he's more like Damphair and less like Arys.. I don't like all the crazy tinfoil theories about him being alive, but I almost secretly wish it were true, just so something comes of his pointless chapters. 

[Traverys]

Alternate POVs...Though not a beloved character by me through any stretch of the imagination, more perspectives from Melisandre to better grasp what she's done and why would be interesting.  To see how much she shares about what she sees in the fires (and how much she fills in the gaps with religious filler).  I feel like we may never know to what extent she has pulled strings.

And I would like to see some perspective from Jorah.  He's been around for the long haul in Essos and we haven't had a chance to pick apart his POV.  Has he ever been disillusioned by his Queen's actions?

Hell, even a chapter from Quaithe to get some juice on shadowbinders, Asshai, and her interest in Daenerys would be be interesting (but probably largely unnecessary to the story at hand).

[Therae]

29 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

I don't even know what to make of Quentyn still. He's like Hotah for me, I have to assume something important is in store for him later on. Hopefully he's more like Damphair and less like Arys.. I don't like all the crazy tinfoil theories about him being alive, but I almost secretly wish it were true, just so something comes of his pointless chapters. 

It seems like it would be the only way to justify all those chapters, but I don't think there's enough tin foil in the prop room from Signals to make him alive. I can only guess that Gerris and Archibald have to become relevant down the road, and maybe @Lady Blizzardborn's idea about choosing the right dragon will come into play. Just about everything else could have come from another POV.

I can see Victarian getting more interesting, but I can also see him getting no more POVs once he makes port. Hotah...well, fingers crossed.

I do have faith that as part of the whole, all this stuff will work better, I do, I do.

And. because I'm not totally OT, I would have liked some Sandor POV, especially at the Red Wedding and the Crossroads Inn Where Nothing Good Ever Happens.

[Dorian Martell's son]

6 hours ago, NorthGirl said:

I was just thinking about Sansa and Tyrion's wedding and I realised that every single time, I forget that it was actually written from Tyrion's PoV and I was wondering if there are other chapters where you've even mistakenly attribute it to another's PoV.

And beyond that, are there events you would like to see from an alternate PoV, from the pool of existing PoVs?

I would like to see Ned's execution from his POV
I would like to see The Oberyn/Mountain fight from the Viper's POV
I would like to see the march up slaver's bay from Barristan's POV

[Lady Blizzardborn]

23 hours ago, Therae said:

It seems like it would be the only way to justify all those chapters, but I don't think there's enough tin foil in the prop room from Signals to make him alive. I can only guess that Gerris and Archibald have to become relevant down the road, and maybe @Lady Blizzardborn's idea about choosing the right dragon will come into play. Just about everything else could have come from another POV.

I can see Victarian getting more interesting, but I can also see him getting no more POVs once he makes port. Hotah...well, fingers crossed.

I do have faith that as part of the whole, all this stuff will work better, I do, I do.

And. because I'm not totally OT, I would have liked some Sandor POV, especially at the Red Wedding and the Crossroads Inn Where Nothing Good Ever Happens.

Thanks for the shout-out. Yes it's possible that Quentyn's entire point (other than to muddy things where House Martell is concerned) is to demonstrate the importance of knowing what you're doing when dealing with dragons. It will be interesting to find out what Tyrion knows, and how much of it is accurate. Whether Rhaegal was trying to claim Quent or not, it has to be of some import that Viserion wasn't trying to roast him. Could be a jealousy issue in the dragons, or something about always being aware of your surroundings...to the point where you don't miss that a dragon is about to spit fire at you.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 4/17/2017 at 2:47 PM, Renly's Banana said:

Yeah, Arianne should have been the only POV in Dorne. Arys and Areo should never have had any chapters. All of their stuff would've been infinitely more interesting through her eyes.

If that were the case we'd miss a ton of information. Could have done without Arys Oakheart, but we absolutely needed someone else in Dorne to give us the non-Arianne perspective. Would Arianne note that all of Oberyn's daughters have viper's eyes, or that Nym is safest when she's practically not dressed at all? 

23 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I would like to see Ned's execution from his POV
I would like to see The Oberyn/Mountain fight from the Viper's POV
I would like to see the march up slaver's bay from Barristan's POV

I'd like to see anything from Oberyn's POV.

Also would like to know what Margaery was thinking during her wedding to Joff.

[Therae]

1 minute ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

1. I'd like to see anything from Oberyn's POV.

2. Also would like to know what Margaery was thinking during her wedding to Joff.

1. YESSSSSSSSSSS!

2. "I miss Renly."

[leonardof]

8 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Thanks for the shout-out. Yes it's possible that Quentyn's entire point (other than to muddy things where House Martell is concerned) is to demonstrate the importance of knowing what you're doing when dealing with dragons. ...

I'll take that a little further... After Ned died, I had a lot of false / almost deaths of POVs, so it was refreshing to have a character dying so we could be reassured the risk was real. But yes, I agree, Quentyn served as a cautionary tale about dragons, as well as an element in the Dorne arc as described in the Merreenese Blot.

[Renly's Banana]

15 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

If that were the case we'd miss a ton of information. Could have done without Arys Oakheart, but we absolutely needed someone else in Dorne to give us the non-Arianne perspective. Would Arianne note that all of Oberyn's daughters have viper's eyes, or that Nym is safest when she's practically not dressed at all? 

Yes? You can still have an objective perspective on a place and people even through the eyes of an extremely subjective POV. 

In fact I think only having Arianne's skewed perspective through that book would have made for an even better payoff at the end, when you realize she was practically wrong about everything and Doran drops his true plans. Hotah's super duper, mute walking tripod camera POV was not essential in the slightest. Seriously, what did you learn from Hotah that you could not learn from Arianne? That Doran is in pain a lot? That the Sand Snakes are shady and bother him? That Doran thinks a lot? That Mrs. Axe can cut through Arys good?
What did you bring to the table, Hotah? What did you bring???????????

[NorthGirl]

On 17/04/2017 at 9:52 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

I would like to see Ned's execution from his POV
I would like to see The Oberyn/Mountain fight from the Viper's POV
I would like to see the march up slaver's bay from Barristan's POV

Those are good ones! I understand why we didn't get them but they sound like so much fun, in a kind of bummer way for Ned and Oberyn. With Oberyn it might have been a good Dorne primer.