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KarlDanski

Anyone else see Dany as becoming evil?

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I don't know if it might sound a bit bad for Daenerys but let me recollect a little bit. She's invading Westeros with kinslayers (Dorne), the Reach, the Unsullied which are basically neutered slaves, a bunch of horse riding rapist barbarians, and a bunch of ship sailing rapist barbarians. Not even the last episode she wanted to burn all of the free cities to the ground despite before stating that she knew the Mad King earned his name. It sounds like shes going on the road to darkness or at least in my mind, is a invader that is using Dothraki, Ironborn, Slaves (Free or not), Dorne who killed their own Lord/Prince, and the Reach who just lost their entire family besides the single matriarch since they haven't included any other Tyrell. I feel like some people may draw conclusions that Daenerys is evil from a Westerosi standpoint. They just got finished with the war of the five kings, their fields are burned, families dead, starving, and harsh taxes, and now being invaded by this.

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The most evil thing she did (in a clever way that made the viewers sympathize with her and forget the larger picture) was still burning Mirri in S1.

Sure, brutally killed some innocent redshirts since, but that's not really the same dramatically - hope it's gonna kick in full force when she starts invading all our beloved Westeros protagonists, though not sure if that's gonna happen based on the leaks.

Her against Cersei makes sense anyway, but her against the North would be the thing - not planned though, huh?

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It is clearly shown in S06E09 that she will NOT becomme the "mad queen". The writers have shown in that specific episode the possibility and have shown that she will not go that path. It is when she wants to burn the cities and Tyrion puts a mirror infront of her and conpares her to her father. Then she listens to him and realises that he is right. This is the method the writers used to show the possibilities but also the difference between her and her father. She listend to Tyrion and realised that it is a bad decission.  She will be the hero of the story, not the villain. It is a little bit like the "Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader relationship". She could have decided differently, but she chooses not to. It is the choices that make us who we are, not our legacy.

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I think "Danaerys invades Westeros and you don't know who to root for" would be a better pay-off than heroic Targstarks vs. evil Cersei, it's something people have been expecting for quite a while now - but there are lots of ways of turning things on their head, aside from that one.

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Evil always depends on perspective. It would be ironical if the lords who now magically support Cersei who bombed her way into power considered Dany the evil one. Whatever the Westerosi perspective will change once she turns towards the others.

Edited by khal drogon

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

I remember a theory about this on YouTube. 

See here

 

Anyways, I don't the theory is very good. Only one of Aerys II's three children are confirmed as a nutcase and neither of Rhaegar's children were deformed before the Mountain went "I killed her children. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her head, IN LIKE THIS!" Also, getting thrown onto your stomach while pregnant probably caused something to go wrong.

Plus, in the other present-day incestuous coupling, it's one out of three again, as only Joffrey is a nutcase.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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No.  The author and the showrunners both see her as a badass with good intentions, so she will not ever be depicted as 'evil' no matter how many actual evil things she does.  

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On 2017-04-18 at 5:01 PM, Pink Fat Rast said:


Her against Cersei makes sense anyway, but her against the North would be the thing - not planned though, huh?

Do you think the latter is going to happen? I theorized this, and honestly, this show doesn't shy away from upsetting fans or going a little bloodthirsty. Doesn't GRRM constantly snip about the fact that D&D are even more cruel with the characters than he is? 
It would be strange if they refrained from going full force right at the climax of the whole series. 

At first I thought it was human v. WW. It could still be that way. That could be the war we have all been waiting for. But the WW are weapons created by people. The show I'm watching right now seems to be pointing towards:  people v. people and WW. v. dragons. 

What other way do you think things could get turned on its head?

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21 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

I think "Danaerys invades Westeros and you don't know who to root for" would be a better pay-off than heroic Targstarks vs. evil Cersei, it's something people have been expecting for quite a while now - but there are lots of ways of turning things on their head, aside from that one.

Sorry for going off topic, but at some point the twist do have to stop. You can't keep it gray until the end, lines have been drawn and Cerci is evil whichever way you look at it.

Its not a bad thing that the good guys will come and actually clean the bad away, probably temporarily though as the WW army is right around the corner ready to fuck everybody's shit up regardless of their good/bad nature.

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In the tv series? Never. They are whitewashing her. In the books she already has done some evil things tho it's mostly because she is an idiot and not a villain.

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"Evil" is a pretty subjective word that relies a lot on perspective. I definitely think she's going to become much more Targaryen-like, though.

This is based off of the book, so insert forum boiler plate here, but this is a very good write up as to why that's probably the case: https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/the-dragons-mercy-the-violent-future-path-of-daenerys-targaryen-part-1-children-and-prophecy/

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On Wed Apr 19 2017 at 7:50 AM, Pink Fat Rast said:

I think "Danaerys invades Westeros and you don't know who to root for" would be a better pay-off than heroic Targstarks vs. evil Cersei, it's something people have been expecting for quite a while now - but there are lots of ways of turning things on their head, aside from that one.

I was expecting this to be the case all during S3-S5, then the girl power S6 happened, and then I read the books and especially AFFC and ADWD.  As much as I'd love for a more polarizing Dany, I think we are heading towards pure evil Cersei and WW versus noble and good hearted Dany... even when her dragons cause problems by eating innocents she will be shown doing the "right" thing and sacrificing them.  I thought her S6 speeches to the Dothraki were horrifying, but oh well, girlpower.

On Wed Apr 19 2017 at 9:18 AM, Cas Stark said:

No.  The author and the showrunners both see her as a badass with good intentions, so she will not ever be depicted as 'evil' no matter how many actual evil things she does.  

The showrunners at least, yup.

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You have to wonder those who say show has whitewashed or show runners seems to have preference for dany  more than GRrM whether actually watched her scenes and read her chapters 

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I definitely see some version of that happening. Her speech to the dothraki in season 6 was horrifying. 

There are two candidates for "hero" in this show: Jon and Dany. 

Jon doesn't want to be King. 

Dany wants to be Queen.

Jon comes back from the dead and one of the first things that come out from his mouth is "I'm not a God". 

Dany steps into a funeral pyre and walks out the other side unburnt and the self-proclaimed "Mother of Dragons". Dany has many of these God-like moments in which she glories. 

My point is, we are seeing "evil" Dany playing out. It's been there for quite some time. Whether or not someone sees it for what it is, is entirely up to them. It's not just all the good guys get together to beat the bad guys: Who are the good guys? Who are the bad guys?

Also, the spoilers for season 7 seem to going along the same path. 

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4 hours ago, Lady Ren said:

I definitely see some version of that happening. Her speech to the dothraki in season 6 was horrifying. 

There are two candidates for "hero" in this show: Jon and Dany. 

Jon doesn't want to be King. 

Dany wants to be Queen.

Jon comes back from the dead and one of the first things that come out from his mouth is "I'm not a God". 

Dany steps into a funeral pyre and walks out the other side unburnt and the self-proclaimed "Mother of Dragons". Dany has many of these God-like moments in which she glories. 

My point is, we are seeing "evil" Dany playing out. It's been there for quite some time. Whether or not someone sees it for what it is, is entirely up to them. It's not just all the good guys get together to beat the bad guys: Who are the good guys? Who are the bad guys?

Also, the spoilers for season 7 seem to going along the same path. 

 

 

Of course Jon doesn't want to be king because he is a Bastard from the north 

Dany is the exiled princess and last surviving member of her family..

 

How can anyone view jon as god..the magic was performed by Mel ..so if anyone must be said God it must be Mel or Rhllor

Whereas dany performs her own magic which is very unique and singular..

I say People will also claim that she named herself storm born... The mother of dragons was a name given to her by those that witnessed the event of hatching dragons by dany..

 

 

 

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On 18.4.2017 at 9:21 PM, The Number 10 said:

Becoming?

She is. Look at that shit she did in slavers bay. She inherited her fathers madness, mark my words.

Watching dany god mad the last two seasons and jorah the explora having to kill her in the end would be the craziest ending ever.

Edited by DreadedNorwegian

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4 hours ago, Drogonthedread said:

Of course Jon doesn't want to be king because he is a Bastard from the north 

Dany is the exiled princess and last surviving member of her family..

 

How can anyone view jon as god..the magic was performed by Mel ..so if anyone must be said God it must be Mel or Rhllor

Whereas dany performs her own magic which is very unique and singular..

I say People will also claim that she named herself storm born... The mother of dragons was a name given to her by those that witnessed the event of hatching dragons by dany..

 

 

 

@thebolded: Exactly. Dany wants to be Queen and Jon doesn't. Despite being a bastard he's literally earned the KiTN title. Dany believes that being the "rightful" heir justifies blood and fire. 

Dany doesn't perform her own magic - it's the dragons. Just as the direwolves is for the Stark kids.

My point is that the Dany is evil plot is playing out before our eyes right now. Whether anyone chooses to see it that way is entirely up to them. It could very well be the "realistic ruler plot". The OP is eluding to this very difference in opinion between Westerosi and Dany/her crew. 

Personally I don't particularity like Dany, but I don't see her as "evil" either. It's just hard to root for her to be Queen when there are others who are much better suited to ruling Westeros. And that is how an average Westerosi might see it.  

This is a great story and a great show. It's not surprising that they've managed to pull this off. 

Edit: When I say Dany is "evil", I mean Jon is the "good guy", and in comparison to him Dany is definitely not (i.e.: kind of bad). Even if she becomes an ally of Jon's I couldn't group her in the good guy category. She is who she is, and it's all blood and fire. But like I said, this is what the show-runners from the audience. To be torn and support different people. 

Edited by Lady Ren

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