Maester Saramello Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 My mind was racing with Asoiaf stuff when I realized something. Quaithe might just be a vision of Dany's. She never interacts with any other characters. No other characters ever interact with her. We know to an extend that Dany has the Targaryen/Valyrian gift of prophecy and future vision, when she had visions after the stillbirth. Could Daenerys be projecting her prophecies in the form of Quaithe? After the first time we meet her in ACOK, she only appears to Dany, usually when alone. Thus, instead of a Qartheen Wizard, she is just Dany's psyche in a mental form. This would explain why no one has every interacted with her, and why after Qarth, Quaithe only visits Dany when she sleeps, and be validated by the fact that many of Dany's ancestors, Daenys the Dreamer, Daemon II Blackfyre, and Daeron the Drunkard, have had similar experiences, all during dreams in their sleep. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 It isn't true that no one else sees Quaithe... When Quaithe too was gone, Ser Jorah said, "She speaks truly, my queen . . . though I like her no more than the others." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Saramello Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 Ah, missed that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Maester Saramello said: Ah, missed that. Thanks. No worries, happens to the best of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I believe Dany is hallucinating Quaithe in all instances after Qarth. I don't believe the hallucinations are an important foreshadowing of future mad-Dany, just GRRM's way of reminding the readers of Quaithe's prophecy, the same way he has Dany repeat in her head all the betrayal stuff from the HOTU over and over again. Not everything GRRM does has to be super duper subtle and sneaky to the readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 One more to my crackpot list. Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 3 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: It isn't true that no one else sees Quaithe... When Quaithe too was gone, Ser Jorah said, "She speaks truly, my queen . . . though I like her no more than the others." This is interesting and I had completely forgotten about it. The thing with me is that, although I sometimes analyse the minutia of the text, I tend to be more guided by some sort of hard to describe gut feeling. I never had a good feeling with Quaithe (as expressed on another thread recently). Cannot exactly put my finger on why and it would seem that Jorah agrees with me lol. However, she could well be "planting visions" on Dany's subconscious or take info from her subconscious. I usually love sorcerers and sorceresses in fantasy but I have to say in ASOIAF I am yet to meet one I like lol Could be crack-pot but hey everything is crack-pot until confirmed in canon. Essos is a fascinating continent in that it appears to be so different to Westeros but it damn scares me (which I am certain is the whole point of it lol). There are so many organisations or even individuals there maybe only hard to pin point because as readers, in the main we come from a western civilization and our time frame. They are way different in Essos! Not so much the ruling classes and their political structures but their mysticism and glamours... Mel uses glamours so why not Quaithe? The glamour here, and very imaginative is that is the way, not merely being her image but who she serves, what she is after... We have seen the 13 and the Faceless and even the Bank gives me the creeps to be honest, as it should do lol I'm sure they all have reasons and serve a purpose but not more and not less than the Others who appeared to have been deprived of their original way of life by humans and resorted to well... being WWs... This being said, although I can kind of try and guess what the WWs motivation might be, the folk in Essos defeats my brain lol And to be honest if the only way to get a hint is reading other books by George, I would be angry. Although I like to read books by authors I love, planting clues for ASOIAF (not saying that he is doing but some fans argue this is the case) to me would be appalling. Like "you cannot reveal the mystery on this one without buying my other book". Not that anyone has argued this in this thread but allusions to other books of his to me would be "very cheap" on his part if correct. Not referring to this thread really, more to the obsession with foreshadowing (not in this thread) that people have and even often quote works not written by George at all or by other works by him. Now, back on track I wouldn't say that just because Jorah who is madly in love with Dany and might have a connection with her saw her, it does mean she exists. I dislike Quaithe with a passion so I guess it would suit me if she weren't real lol. Still real or not real doesn't make her less scary. Perhaps to simplistic on my part but she is on a par with the 13, the Faceless and that sort of mystical "cannot be defeated" institutions. My feeling is that the Bank is in it with them too lol Tinfoil, I am sure but hey my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornishDornish Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Quaithe has a dreamlike quality in the fifth book and the other handmaidens can't see her and wonder who Dany is talking to. All of this strongly hints towards a glass candle being used and there's one place that's (relatively) close to Dany that does have them and that's Qarth which is where Quaithe was last physically seen. Quote Dany V - CoK Dany had laughed when he told her. "Was it not you who told me warlocks were no more than old soldiers, vainly boasting of forgotten deeds and lost prowess?" Xaro looked troubled. "And so it was, then. But now? I am less certain. It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 That's actually a very interesting theory, and I'm not gonna lie.. I've thought about it too before. But like others have pointed out, Quaithe does interact with other characters. Not often, but it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth the raven, Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said: Now, back on track I wouldn't say that just because Jorah who is madly in love with Dany and might have a connection with her saw her, it does mean she exists. I dislike Quaithe with a passion so I guess it would suit me if she weren't real lol. Still real or not real doesn't make her less scary. Perhaps to simplistic on my part but she is on a par with the 13, the Faceless and that sort of mystical "cannot be defeated" institutions. My feeling is that the Bank is in it with them too lol Tinfoil, I am sure but hey my two cents. I am sorry to say this but you are working very hard to push away logic. Jorah saw Quaithe. Quaithe is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The North Forgot Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Could the answer be a mix of what you guys mentioned above? We know Quaithe is real since Jorah saw her as well, but that doesn't mean Dany having visions not in the dreamlike sense, but Quaithe appearing and talking to her in her mind can't be true, that her mind plays tricks on her. Or, I'd say more likely, glass candles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoth the raven, Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 minute ago, The North Forgot said: Could the answer be a mix of what you guys mentioned above? We know Quaithe is real since Jorah saw her as well, but that doesn't mean Dany having visions not in the dreamlike sense, but Quaithe appearing and talking to her in her mind can't be true, that her mind plays tricks on her. Or, I'd say more likely, glass candles It is definitely possible for Quaithe to communicate via glass candles. I would think the other party would need a glass candle on their end. You can broadcast a radio signal but no one will receive the message without a radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Quoth the raven, said: It is definitely possible for Quaithe to communicate via glass candles. I would think the other party would need a glass candle on their end. You can broadcast a radio signal but no one will receive the message without a radio. I think the idea of the glass candles was that they let you communicate into other's dreams... think of it like the fire version of greendreams (or maybe more specifically someone else appearing in a dream like the 3eC or how Bran appears to Jon). While Quaithe is real in the sense that at least Jorah saw her too in Quarth, I do agree that later in the series she seems to be appearing in Dany's dreams. She just isn't only in her dreams. Thus the glass candles being a logical tool for the job. Of course this begs the question, who is Marwyn talking to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: Of course this begs the question, who is Marwyn talking to? He's talking to Mance Ryder who is secretaly Rhaegar who is secretaly Euron who is secretally Daario Naharis who is......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said: This is interesting and I had completely forgotten about it. The thing with me is that, although I sometimes analyse the minutia of the text, I tend to be more guided by some sort of hard to describe gut feeling. I never had a good feeling with Quaithe (as expressed on another thread recently). Cannot exactly put my finger on why and it would seem that Jorah agrees with me lol. However, she could well be "planting visions" on Dany's subconscious or take info from her subconscious. I usually love sorcerers and sorceresses in fantasy but I have to say in ASOIAF I am yet to meet one I like lol Could be crack-pot but hey everything is crack-pot until confirmed in canon. Essos is a fascinating continent in that it appears to be so different to Westeros but it damn scares me (which I am certain is the whole point of it lol). There are so many organisations or even individuals there maybe only hard to pin point because as readers, in the main we come from a western civilization and our time frame. They are way different in Essos! Not so much the ruling classes and their political structures but their mysticism and glamours... Mel uses glamours so why not Quaithe? The glamour here, and very imaginative is that is the way, not merely being her image but who she serves, what she is after... We have seen the 13 and the Faceless and even the Bank gives me the creeps to be honest, as it should do lol I'm sure they all have reasons and serve a purpose but not more and not less than the Others who appeared to have been deprived of their original way of life by humans and resorted to well... being WWs... This being said, although I can kind of try and guess what the WWs motivation might be, the folk in Essos defeats my brain lol And to be honest if the only way to get a hint is reading other books by George, I would be angry. Although I like to read books by authors I love, planting clues for ASOIAF (not saying that he is doing but some fans argue this is the case) to me would be appalling. Like "you cannot reveal the mystery on this one without buying my other book". Not that anyone has argued this in this thread but allusions to other books of his to me would be "very cheap" on his part if correct. Not referring to this thread really, more to the obsession with foreshadowing (not in this thread) that people have and even often quote works not written by George at all or by other works by him. Now, back on track I wouldn't say that just because Jorah who is madly in love with Dany and might have a connection with her saw her, it does mean she exists. I dislike Quaithe with a passion so I guess it would suit me if she weren't real lol. Still real or not real doesn't make her less scary. Perhaps to simplistic on my part but she is on a par with the 13, the Faceless and that sort of mystical "cannot be defeated" institutions. My feeling is that the Bank is in it with them too lol Tinfoil, I am sure but hey my two cents. First, while the quote proves Jorah saw Quaithe too, I'm not sure I'm willing to trust his judgment, especially in regards to Dany. Second, it seems that you skirted one of my big questions about Quaithe... as you said the other two representatives who come to meet Dany are Xaro and Pryat Pree... representing, as you point out, the 13 and the Undying... who is Quaithe representing? How did she get in with the other "great of Quarth"? Not only this but she speaks in the Common tongue of Westeros and wears a red weirwood mask! Usually it's the leaves and/or eyes of the weirwood that are red, except... "No one knew," said Meera, "but the mystery knight was short of stature, and clad in ill-fitting armor made up of bits and pieces. The device upon his shield was a heart tree of the old gods, a white weirwood with a laughing red face." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: Of course this begs the question, who is Marwyn talking to? Quaithe? Marwyn is said to have studied with shadowbinders in Essos. Speaking of glass candles, I think that could explain why she wears a mask (other than the normal reasons shadowbinders wear them). Maybe the glass candles function like the Palantir from the LotR in that you don't know who else could be watching you. Hence why she would hide her identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said: Quaithe? Marwyn is said to have studied with shadowbinders in Essos. Speaking of glass candles, I think that could explain why she wears a mask (other than the normal reasons shadowbinders wear them). Maybe the glass candles function like the Palantir from the LotR in that you don't know who else could be watching you. Hence why she would hide her identity. I like where your head is at! That's why I brought up Marwyn! The fact that it is a RED weirwood mask I also find interesting as per above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The North Forgot Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: I like where your head is at! That's why I brought up Marwyn! The fact that it is a RED weirwood mask I also find interesting as per above... Slight crackpot, but if we build from the Palantir idea, R'hollor has his Red Priests and Weirwood is linked to the Old Gods, maybe it's so neither "side" can see through her disguise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 49 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: I like where your head is at! That's why I brought up Marwyn! The fact that it is a RED weirwood mask I also find interesting as per above... Isn't Quaithe's mask red lacquer? I don't remember it being weirwood. Did I forget??? Now I'm curious if the red lacquer means anything significant. I know Morna has a weirwood mask and Val a weirwood face brooch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said: Isn't Quaithe's mask red lacquer? I don't remember it being weirwood. Did I forget??? Now I'm curious if the red lacquer means anything significant. I know Morna has a weirwood mask and Val a weirwood face brooch. Ya, you aren't wrong, not sure why I thought it was weirwood there for a minute... my b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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