A step back and a look at "time" in ASOIAF on the grand scale.

[Dorian Martell's son]

9 minutes ago, cgrav said:

The point of continuity between the skulls and Weirwood would be the face/eyes, so I'd think ability to "see" is the key. 

Interstingly, we also have a past example of a dragon being killed by a Weirwood arrow to the eye.

In what book?

[Clegane'sPup]

On 4/19/2017 at 11:47 AM, Macgregor of the North said:

@cgrav

After some thought on what you said on my last thread here:

"My notion is that the Weirnet and some other physical spots (under the sea, in the flames) are doors to a realm of non-linear time and action. That means being drowned or communing with the sea like Damphair is equivalent to going into the Weirwood."

I have decided to take a step back and look at "time" on the grand scale in ASOIAF, and try my hand at some clarity on the whole Stable/Closed time loop angle where everything is set in stone and things that have happened a certain way have always happened that way and what caused them always was what caused them, with nothing changing, only the cause becoming clear to us as we read the story.

@ravenous reader & @Darry Man

You guys had some good input on that last thread too so please feel free to join us here if you like. 

Ok. You mention "in the flames, and under the sea" as doors to a realm of non linear time and action. That's a great way to put it and something I'm on board with completely. While thinking on this I'd like to offer Dreams too. 

So we have these mediums where an actual "time" that we would class as "the future" or "the past" can be accessed. While some of it is tricky to understand and can come across as symbolic it is still accessing a "time" where information is available due to events having "happened". 

Under the Sea: Patchface with his symbolic knowledge of the future. 

The flames: Those such as Melisandre and Moqorro can access this "time" in the flames. It is sometimes very clear in that real people are seen, but also can be symbolic and tricky too. 

Dreams: Targaryens and people with Greendreams can access this "time" and as above, it can be very very clear with specific people and actions, but can also be symbolic and very tricky to read. 

The Weirwood tree network, and for levelled-up Greenseers, "seeing beyond the trees": It is said the Greenseers could "delve into the past and see far into the future". We have yet to see the Weirwood tree network take Bran to a time he and us would class as "the future", but the Weirwood tree network is one of these gateways that can most certainly provide access to "the past". 

What I think is happening in ASOIAF is that whenever one of these mediums, doors, portals, gateways or whatever you prefer is at play, "time" can be accessed and the concept of "past present and future" is left behind and we are operating outside the strictures of "time". 

In this fashion, I believe that events happening in what we the readers would class as, let's say "the future", can actually have an effect on and be the cause of an action or event in what we would class as a "time" such as the "past" or the "present". 

I think we have examples we can share if you fancy it. I believe I showed Bran caused Neds reaction both times in "the past" in my last thread, but we can leave that there. I'll start with a couple. 

Dreams are the medium, or doorway here. 

Daenys the Dreamer actually sees the destruction of Valyria by fire twelve years before it "happened", and it did happen, so due to this, her father sold all his holdings in Valyria and moved his family to Dragonstone. Her father Aenar had kept this secret and let the other Dragonlords think the Targaryens had moved out of cowardice and surrender because they were a lesser branch of Dragonlords who could not match their power. 

Anyway, through the magical medium of Dreams, a glimpse of "the future" is shown and acted on. The "future" effected Aenars decision in "the present" and this is the reason we have Targaryens in our story now. 

Next. Jojen accesses "the future" through the Greendream doorway. He sees the Ironborn taking Winterfell and killing certain people such as Alebelly. Even though this is not as clear as Daenys' dream because it is symbolic with the Ironborn manifesting as the salty water and waves and them killing Alebelly as him drowning, it is still a glimpse of "the future" through the doorway and it too has an effect on events in what we class as the  "present time". 
Alebelly, upon hearing this tale decides not to wash for days for fear of drowning that he stinks so bad he has to be physically scrubbed by people at Winterfell lol. The cause of this was Jojens glimpse of "the future" through the dream portal, and then became set in stone as always being the cause of why Alebelly never washed for days. 

Cause and effect. It seems to me that when these mediums or portals are at play and non linear time and actions are being accessed through them, there can be cause and effect and this becomes set in stone as always being the cause of an event, even though the cause and effect happened at what we would class as different points in "time". 

Do my latest thoughts hold any water or have I reached to far and my moment of clarity was just as foggy as one of Jojens dreams. 

Take a step back. This ^ is the original post. If the topic is so hot why are there so few posters. A lot of viewers but few posters.

[cgrav]

59 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

In what book?

My bad, I had two stories mixed up. A dragon was killed at some point by an arrow/bolt to the eye, and another time Brandon Snow whittled Weirwood arrows. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

3 minutes ago, cgrav said:

My bad, I had two stories mixed up. A dragon was killed at some point by an arrow/bolt to the eye, and another time Brandon Snow whittled Weirwood arrows. 

I remember the arrow in the world book but not the actual dragon death from it