Steel Stag

The Winds of Winter - Small Council

29 posts in this topic

Hello everybody!

 

After i have read the a Dance of Dragons Epilogue, i was wondering who will be the people sitting on the Small Council in the Winds of Winter. I believe many people will have differen`t oppinions on this topic and i would like to hear your ideas.

 

Lord Regent: In my opinion there are 3 possible candidates to become the new Lord Regent. Cersei Lannister, Mace Tyrell and Margaery Tyrell. I think that it is very unlikely that Cersei will regain her position as Queen Regent. She was humiliated in public and is still awaiting her Trial by Combat. Many people believe that Mace Tyrell will become the new Lord Regent and even though this very possible, i don't believe this is what will happen. I believe that Margaery Tyrell will become the new Queen Regent, like Cersei once used to be and Mace Tyrell will remain her Hand of the King/Queen.

Hand of the King: I believe that Mace Tyrell will remain the Hand of the King. If Mace Tyrell becomes the new Lord Regent i believe that Randyll Tarly will become the new Hand of the King.

The Master of Laws: In case Mace Tyrell will become the new Lord Regent, it is very likely that Randyll Tarly will become the new Hand of the King. If this is the case however, someone will have to replace him and become the new Master of Laws. In my opinion, this will probaply be Mathis Rowan.

The Master of Coin: I think it is very unlikely that Harys Swyft will keep his postion as Master of Coin. I think the time has finally arrived for everyone's favourite lord treasurer Garth the Gross to become the new Master of Coin.

The Grand Maester: I think Mace Tyrell's uncle will become the new Grand Maester of the Iron Throne. This would make the most sense.

Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: I don't think that Jaime Lannister will be executed by Lady Stoneheart in the Winds of Winter, but it is definitely a possibility that this could happen. If Jaime dies, it goes without saying that Loras Tyrell will become the new Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But there is also the possibility, that Loras Tyrell will die as well during the Winds of Winter. Who do you think would become the new Lord Commander of the Kingsguard in this case?

The Master of Ships: This position in the Small Council will definitely stay unchanged. The Redwynes have the biggest fleet in Westeros and there is no reason to replace Paxter Redwyne.

Advisor: This position will probaply also stay unchanged. Unless Mace Tyrell is foolish enough to fire Nymeria Sand from the council.

 

I hope you enjoyed reading my ideas and i am looking forward to see yours!

 

Edited by Steel Stag

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Regent: Mace Tyrell

Hand of the King: Mace Tyrell

Master of Laws: Randyll Tarly/Mathis Rowan

Master of Ships: Paxter Redwyne

Master of Coin: Harys Swyft

Master of Whispers: Who knows

Grand Maester: Probably Gormon Tyrell

Advisor: Nymeria Sand

Lord Commander: I don't think that Jaime would die, but if he did then probably Balon Swann

Of course, this is only what I think the council will look like towards the beginning of Winds, and whatever line up we have at the start will have been almost entirely replaced by the end.

Edited by Adam Yozza

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Well, don't forget the little tidbit we've learned from Winds. 

Spoiler

Mace Tyrell will no longer be in King's Landing. He's marching out to Storm's End. Meaning that he's most likely still Hand, but not really in a Regency role. It also means that Margaery has been cleared of all charges. 

I think with Kevan's death, Cersei will immediately regain most of her old power. She has to, there's no other Lannister in the capital but her. The crimson guards that were serving her uncle would pass to her, so she's not gonna be completely powerless. Mace will remain Hand and he'll have most of the say, but Cersei will regain her role as Regent. The walk took away her dignity and status, but not her last name. She's Tommen's only remaining family, Mace can't dismiss her or shove her into a corner. Nor can he make Margaery his regent. Besides, he'll be too busy to worry about Cersei.

As for the council, it'll most likely become overwhelmingly Tyrell. Master of Ships, Laws, Grand Maester, all Tyrell. Qyburn might come back under Cersei's influence, but it's questionable. I think it'd be funny if Varys randomly showed back up and tried to take his old position. If he gets Cersei on his side, which won't be too hard with the right lies, it's not impossible.    

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Obviously the Tyrells will control the small council at the beginning of Winds.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Cersei will immediately regain most of her old power. She has to, there's no other Lannister in the capital but her. The crimson guards that were serving her uncle would pass to her, so she's not gonna be completely powerless. Mace will remain Hand and he'll have most of the say, but Cersei will regain her role as Regent.

Cersei may be forced out of KL irregardless of the fact that she is the only adult Lannister in town. In AGoT there were really no Baratheon guards around KL depite the fact that Robert was king, the largest force of household guards was the Lannisters. 

The Tyrells will become the new Lannisters. They really lost nothing over the course of the Wot5k, like the Lannisters in Robert's Rebellion.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

I think it'd be funny if Varys randomly showed back up and tried to take his old position.

Varys never tries. He either does or it is not in the best interest of his goals (whatever they might be).

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2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

Hello everybody!

 

After i have read the a Dance of Dragons Epilogue, i was wondering who will be the people sitting on the Small Council in the Winds of Winter. I believe many people will have differen`t oppinions on this topic and i would like to hear your ideas.

 

Lord Regent: In my opinion there are 3 possible candidates to become the new Lord Regent. Cersei Lannister, Mace Tyrell and Margaery Tyrell. I think that it is very unlikely that Cersei will regain her position as Queen Regent. She was humiliated in public and is still awaiting her Trial by Combat. Many people believe that Mace Tyrell will become the new Lord Regent and even though this very possible, i don't believe this is what will happen. I believe that Margaery Tyrell will become the new Queen Regent, like Cersei once used to be and Mace Tyrell will remain her Hand of the King/Queen.

The position of regent is granted/offered by the Small Council. Since the Small Council is right now dominated by the Tyrells the new Lord Regent will be a Tyrell (assuming one is appointed and the whole thing is not just postponed until after the various crises are dealt with). If Littlefinger is correct in his assessment that Margaery herself is not particularly ambitious all by herself it is very unlikely she will become Queen Regent. She is far too young for such a position anyway, not to mention the predicament she finds herself in right now.

The best candidate is, of course, Mace himself.

2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

Hand of the King: I believe that Mace Tyrell will remain the Hand of the King. If Mace Tyrell becomes the new Lord Regent i believe that Randyll Tarly will become the new Hand of the King.

The office of Lord Regent and Hand can be combined/held by the same person as can various offices in the Small Council (Orton Merryweather was both Hand and Master of Laws when Cersei was arrested, and historically Brynden Rivers seems to have been both Hand and Master of Whisperers just as Criston Cole was both Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and Hand). Thus I find it more likely that Mace will remain Hand after he has seized the Regency just as Kevan demanded both the Handship and Regency from Cersei back in AFfC.

2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

The Master of Laws: In case Mace Tyrell will become the new Lord Regent, it is very likely that Randyll Tarly will become the new Hand of the King. If this is the case however, someone will have to replace him and become the new Master of Laws. In my opinion, this will probaply be Mathis Rowan.

Mathis Rowan is likely to be taken by and eventually defect to Aegon. He won't sit on Tommen's council in any position.

2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

The Master of Coin: I think it is very unlikely that Harys Swyft will keep his postion as Master of Coin. I think the time has finally arrived for everyone's favourite lord treasurer Garth the Gross to become the new Master of Coin.

We know Swyft will go to Braavos. Whether he is going to come back from there remains to be seen. Garth the Gross could certainly become one of his successors.

2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

The Grand Maester: I think Mace Tyrell's uncle will become the new Grand Maester of the Iron Throne. This would make the most sense.

Not unlikely, assuming Varys was telling the truth.

2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: I don't think that Jaime Lannister will be executed by Lady Stoneheart in the Winds of Winter, but it is definitely a possibility that this could happen. If Jaime dies, it goes without saying that Loras Tyrell will become the new Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But there is also the possibility, that Loras Tyrell will die as well during the Winds of Winter. Who do you think would become the new Lord Commander of the Kingsguard in this case?

If Cersei has a say in the matter it will be Ser Robert Strong. But this is most likely an irrelevant question considering that the Kingsguard is pretty much a non-factor anyway right now. Loras is injured, Kettleblack imprisoned, Swann in Dorne, Blount incompetent, Trant an ass, and Jaime missing.

But Strong could make up for all of them.

2 hours ago, Steel Stag said:

The Master of Ships: This position in the Small Council will definitely stay unchanged. The Redwynes have the biggest fleet in Westeros and there is no reason to replace Paxter Redwyne.

He should technically stay a member of the council as long as he lives. 

Lady Nym might try to claim an actual position on the council. Considering that Qyburn has been thrown out of the council while continuing his work with the spies she might insist that she be named Mistress of Whisperers. There is precedent for two women serving in that capacity (Tyanna of the Tower, one of King Maegor's wives, and Lady Mysaria for Queen Rhaenyra) although I doubt that Mace would be fine with that. But if Qyburn turns out to be quarrelsome she could have a chance.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Well, don't forget the little tidbit we've learned from Winds. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Mace Tyrell will no longer be in King's Landing. He's marching out to Storm's End. Meaning that he's most likely still Hand, but not really in a Regency role. It also means that Margaery has been cleared of all charges. 

I think with Kevan's death, Cersei will immediately regain most of her old power. She has to, there's no other Lannister in the capital but her. The crimson guards that were serving her uncle would pass to her, so she's not gonna be completely powerless.

Those Lannister men all know what the Faith, her uncle, and the rabble of the city did to her. They also know what she is and what she confessed to have done (and stands accused of). It is very unlikely that any of those people are willing to die for her - and they would have to die for her if they fought for her against the Tyrells because Mace has tens of thousands of men in the city. The Lannisters have just a few hundreds and Cersei could not count on their help or the City Watch when the Faith imprisoned her. They are even less likely to support her in a bloody struggle for power against the Tyrells.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Mace will remain Hand and he'll have most of the say, but Cersei will regain her role as Regent. The walk took away her dignity and status, but not her last name. She's Tommen's only remaining family, Mace can't dismiss her or shove her into a corner. Nor can he make Margaery his regent. Besides, he'll be too busy to worry about Cersei.

Sure as hell he can, just as the Small Council did when she was imprisoned. The Regency can be held by anyone. There is no need for him or her to related to the king. And Cersei is female and a confessed whore besides. She is done with power, at least in KL and for the time. She would have to cleanse the city with blood at the head of an army to regain power. But she has no army right now.

In addition, the subtext in the Epilogue makes it crystal clear that the Tyrells want it all, all the power, and they know what Cersei did or try to do to Margaery. Only Kevan protected Cersei from Mace's wrath. But now Kevan is dead and Cersei is effectively at Mace's mercy. He can seize her and imprison her with impunity if he acts quickly. Nothing should be more easier than accuse her of the murders of Kevan and Pycelle.

Cersei's only chance of survival and a return to power is to grab Tommen and make a run for it, best by way of the ships. That way she could eventually come back with an army of Westermen.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If Cersei has a say in the matter it will be Ser Robert Strong. But this is most likely an irrelevant question considering that the Kingsguard is pretty much a non-factor anyway right now. Loras is injured, Kettleblack imprisoned, Swann in Dorne, Blount incompetent, Trant an ass, and Jaime missing.

But Strong could make up for all of them.

Hasn't he "taken a vow of silence," though? The rest of the Small Council and whatever remains of the KG might actually prefer a mute LC (I am joking, sort of), but that would be a questionable call even by Cersei standards.

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Just now, Therae said:

Hasn't he "taken a vow of silence," though? The rest of the Small Council and whatever remains of the KG might actually prefer a mute LC (I am joking, sort of), but that would be a questionable call even by Cersei standards.

Yes, he has. When I was tossing around that idea I was thinking about events after Cersei's trial. I'm inclined to believe that Ser Robert's true identity will be publicly revealed during the trial  - both as Gregor Clegane and an undead monstrosity (say, by his opponent damaging his visor or being able to remove his entire helmet). Then the guy could speak again, assuming Qyburn is just not permitting him to speak because that would give away his true identity.

I expect this to be the deciding factor for Cersei's imminent escape from KL (with or without a living Tommen - he could easily die accidentally during her escape). Ser Robert is likely to win the trial-by-combat (how on earth could he lose?) but if his true identity and nature is revealed the High Septon is most likely not going to accept that. I'm pretty sure the Seven don't look kindly on evil witches who use black magic to rig a holy trial in their favor. And if the High Septon publicly declares Cersei to be guilty despite the fact that her champion won all hell will break lose. Ser Robert might be able to kill dozens of Poor Fellows and Warrior's Sons and enable her escape but Tommen should lose his crown in the process considering that the claim Jaime is the father of Cersei's children is part of the accusations that are to be judged in the trial.

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21 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yes, he has. When I was tossing around that idea I was thinking about events after Cersei's trial. I'm inclined to believe that Ser Robert's true identity will be publicly revealed during the trial  - both as Gregor Clegane and an undead monstrosity (say, by his opponent damaging his visor or being able to remove his entire helmet). Then the guy could speak again, assuming Qyburn is just not permitting him to speak because that would give away his true identity.

I expect this to be the deciding factor for Cersei's imminent escape from KL (with or without a living Tommen - he could easily die accidentally during her escape). Ser Robert is likely to win the trial-by-combat (how on earth could he lose?) but if his true identity and nature is revealed the High Septon is most likely not going to accept that. I'm pretty sure the Seven don't look kindly on evil witches who use black magic to rig a holy trial in their favor. And if the High Septon publicly declares Cersei to be guilty despite the fact that her champion won all hell will break lose. Ser Robert might be able to kill dozens of Poor Fellows and Warrior's Sons and enable her escape but Tommen should lose his crown in the process considering that the claim Jaime is the father of Cersei's children is part of the accusations that are to be judged in the trial.

Thus is definitely how zi want things to happen, but I fear Cersei trial will either be a sort of new Meereenese knot where nothing is resolved until the last book when GRRM finishes typing up other things, or Strong will stomp someone easily so she wins, then his identity gets revealed near the end of Winds where it would almost certainly go down as you described here.

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@Lord Varys
This is all assuming Cersei were to lose her trial by battle. If Strong wins, she is cleared of her charges. 
Furthermore, the Lannister guards serve House Lannister because of oaths and gold, not because they follow whoever's more righteous or moral. It doesn't matter whether or not Cersei was accused of being a whore, so long as she's the de facto Lannister in town and is cleared of her charges, they'll listen. Will they go to war for her or die for her? Not likely, but she still has some small power in them. 

As for her being sent away, by what right does Mace Tyrell control her? He's not her father or uncle, he has no ownership or stewardship over the king's mother. Again, assuming she wins her trial, she is no longer bound by anyone. If Mace and Randyll leave town (with their forces), she can very easily gain back her influence. It won't ever be the same as before, but she won't be completely without some authority. He may be the King's Hand, but she'll be the one influencing the king herself. 

The Tyrells are not going to be a permanent force occupying KL, not with Euron going after their seat and Aegon knockin' next door. They will have to disperse. So while Cersei may not start Winds with much power, it's not impossible that she'll scheme her way back to it in no time. 

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There will be several battles right away in Winds of winter in which i predict the Tyrell's will be completely destroyed so im thinking of small council after that.

Regent - Cersei Lannister

Hand of the king - Qyburn

Lord commander of the kingsguard - Jaime Lannister

Master of Laws - ?

Master of Ships - ?

Master of Coin - ?

Master of Whispers - Qyburn

Grand Maester - Qyburn

Advisor -  Nymeria Sand

The Lannister's will be completely alone shortly after Winds of winter and Cersei the regent has no allies. She might have some lesser loyalist lords take some council seats.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Yes, he has. When I was tossing around that idea I was thinking about events after Cersei's trial. I'm inclined to believe that Ser Robert's true identity will be publicly revealed during the trial  - both as Gregor Clegane and an undead monstrosity (say, by his opponent damaging his visor or being able to remove his entire helmet). Then the guy could speak again, assuming Qyburn is just not permitting him to speak because that would give away his true identity.

I've got the impression it's more that he's not really able to speak (intelligibly, at least) anymore, than that he's compelled not to -- it seems like his size would be way more of a giveaway than his voice (especially as I don't recall his voice ever being described in any way to distinguish it).

I think there are some theories that he doesn't even have a head on under his visor, which would definitely limit his conversational skills, but I'm pretty sure the Dornish were sent a not-Tyrion dwarf skull, and unGregor still has his attached.

But anyway, say the Tyrellified Small Council a.) presumes Jaime dead or b.) terminates his employment with the King's Guard, I think they would appoint Loras LC, even if he is dying on Dragonstone (and I'm not at all convinced he is).

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1 hour ago, Praetor Xyn said:

Thus is definitely how zi want things to happen, but I fear Cersei trial will either be a sort of new Meereenese knot where nothing is resolved until the last book when GRRM finishes typing up other things, or Strong will stomp someone easily so she wins, then his identity gets revealed near the end of Winds where it would almost certainly go down as you described here.

That doesn't make a lot of sense because pretty much everything in the story points towards Aegon taking KL and becoming the King on the Iron Throne in the next book to set him up as an opponent for Daenerys. Cersei either has to die (less likely) or leave KL for that to happen. I think she will hook up with Euron and eventually come back with a vengeance (either against Aegon or Daenerys or both).

Things in KL will certainly unravel very quickly. The deaths of Pycelle and Kevan, the (possible) arrival of Lady Nym and Tyene, the trial-by-combat (a mere few days away by the end of the Epilogue), Margaery's trial, the situation between the Crown and the Faith, the Tyrell ambition, etc. will all make itself felt very early in the story. In the second half of the book King Aegon VI might already rule in KL.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

@Lord Varys
This is all assuming Cersei were to lose her trial by battle. If Strong wins, she is cleared of her charges.

Not necessarily. As I've said, if you have an undead zombie fighting for you people are not likely going to interpret that as a proper trial-by-combat. A trial-by-combat is interpreted by the Seven, and the High Septon speaks for the Seven. If the High Septon disqualifies your champion you have no authority to complain about but the Seven for whom the High Septon is speaking. 

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Furthermore, the Lannister guards serve House Lannister because of oaths and gold, not because they follow whoever's more righteous or moral. It doesn't matter whether or not Cersei was accused of being a whore, so long as she's the de facto Lannister in town and is cleared of her charges, they'll listen. Will they go to war for her or die for her? Not likely, but she still has some small power in them. 

That would have to be proved in the text. We don't know a single red cloak by name right now (Vylarr, the previous commander isn't even in the city) nor have we any ideas about their loyalty to Cersei, personally. Mace could butcher them all in a matter of hours. He has tens of thousands, Cersei just a few hundred.

And again - keep in mind that neither King Tommen's City Watch nor the Lannister guardsmen intervened on her behalf when she was imprisoned by the Faith. Those men did nothing and they are likely to continue doing nothing now that the Tyrells control the city. Now they have seen and heard how the Queen Dowager was paraded naked through the streets and people threw shit at her. She is done as a leader in the eyes of the men who were close to this thing. She might be able to use the way she was mistreated as a way to rouse the Lords and knights of the West who were far away, especially if she has Tommen with her, but the idea that she could retake KL which she effectively already had lost in AFfC makes no sense. 

Cersei had more men than Ned back when Robert died - more guardsmen and the City Watch. Now Mace has an entire army. If there is violence it is very obvious how things are going to turn out.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

As for her being sent away, by what right does Mace Tyrell control her?

He is the King's Hand and speaks with the King's Voice. He does not even have to be Lord Regent to sit the Iron Throne and give orders in the name of the king.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

He's not her father or uncle, he has no ownership or stewardship over the king's mother.

He has, just as Tommen is his now. Just as Joffrey and Cersei would have been Ned's had he been able to get himself confirmed as Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Again, assuming she wins her trial, she is no longer bound by anyone. If Mace and Randyll leave town (with their forces), she can very easily gain back her influence. It won't ever be the same as before, but she won't be completely without some authority. He may be the King's Hand, but she'll be the one influencing the king herself.

The king is a puppet. Adults speak for him, he has no voice of his own. Tommen wasn't even told what happened to his mother and wife, nor was he told about Cersei's walk.

And she has no longer access to him. She is under close guard by the septas of the High Septon and men sworn to Kevan.

Mace and Tarly are very likely not stupid enough to leave the city with all their forces. They have 30,000-40,000 men in the city, and they are not likely to need them all against the Golden Company.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

The Tyrells are not going to be a permanent force occupying KL, not with Euron going after their seat and Aegon knockin' next door. They will have to disperse. So while Cersei may not start Winds with much power, it's not impossible that she'll scheme her way back to it in no time. 

She doesn't have the standing or the men to try to do something of that sort. At least on in KL. If the Tyrells were to go then nobody would be left there to command. This is a realistic setting. You have to have men and actual power to gain ultimate power. Cersei has no men in the capital and no allies left. In fact, the state of mind she is right now would suggest that she is going to believe Tyrion and Mace murdered Kevan and Pycelle together. She will believe Tommen and she are next. And that in and of itself will be enough for her to leave the capital as quickly as possible. She won't have the patience to remain there.

And by the way, Mace is making no move to help his sons in the Reach against Euron. He doesn't have to. The Tyrells actually have enough men to fight at two or three fronts at the same time, and Willas and Garlan have the numbers to deal with the Ironborn. What they lack are ships, and they are building those right now while the Redwyne fleet is also coming to their aid. Euron will likely crush them with some spell but before that news is not reaching Mace and Tarly in KL they will care more about controlling the Iron Throne than being seriously concerned about some pirate king. Mace has made it crystal clear that he is not even going to take care of Aegon while the situation with Margaery has not yet resolved itself.

17 minutes ago, Therae said:

I've got the impression it's more that he's not really able to speak (intelligibly, at least) anymore, than that he's compelled not to -- it seems like his size would be way more of a giveaway than his voice (especially as I don't recall his voice ever being described in any way to distinguish it).

I think there are some theories that he doesn't even have a head on under his visor, which would definitely limit his conversational skills, but I'm pretty sure the Dornish were sent a not-Tyrion dwarf skull, and unGregor still has his attached.

Well, he could always have Falyse's head now. That would be, well, a sight to behold. Still, I think both his nature and identity will be revealed during the trial. Something has to happen there to make things interesting.

17 minutes ago, Therae said:

But anyway, say the Tyrellified Small Council a.) presumes Jaime dead or b.) terminates his employment with the King's Guard, I think they would appoint Loras LC, even if he is dying on Dragonstone (and I'm not at all convinced he is).

I don't think they have the time for that. Loras does not seem to be dying but he still seems to be seriously injured. Mace does not betray any serious concern for his favorite son in the Epilogue so the boy is most likely not exactly near death. If he was it would not be unlikely that Mace had taken steps to have Cersei killed.

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I don't think Cersei will have a say in the (most likely short-lived) Tyrell Small Council. Win or lose her trial, she's done either way. Like @Lord Varys mentioned upthread, her best shot is to grab Tommen and make a run for Casterly Rock, possibly with the aid of Robert Strong and maybe Qyburn as well. 

I do think the Tyrells will try to replace Jaime as soon as possible (they'll be fools not to seize that advantage) but I can't think of a Reach fighter that would be a good fit. Maybe one of Matthis Rowan's sons, I don't know. 

I could also see Lady Nym as Mistress of Whispers. 

 

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It's hard to predict what will happen, but knowing everything we know about Cersei's character, she's not going to want to leave the capital. During her last conversation with Kevan, her only request is to have Taena brought back to court with her. What does that tell us? It's not because Taena was a great friend or confidant, but because Taena was her only spy among Margaery's circle. She's planning to go back to the same stuff she was doing. All of her power, and Tommen's, draw from the Iron Throne, and she's way too stubborn to run away like a coward. The only person that was planning to send her away was Kevan, and Kevan is dead.  

Her running away to try and make an alliance with Euron is also kinda nonsensical. No one on either side would want to work with the other, there is no reason to. It's a ludicrous gamble; she has a better chance of clinging to power in KL than anywhere else. 
Either way, the Tyrells are headed towards doom like a bullet train, and Cersei is gonna be back in power sooner or later. Count on it.  

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If the theorized marriage between Cersei and Euron takes place, what is your (collective) input on THAT small council?

:o

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8 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

It's hard to predict what will happen, but knowing everything we know about Cersei's character, she's not going to want to leave the capital.

She will, if she concludes that Tyrion is still hiding in the walls and has murdered her uncle with the help of the Tyrells. She will fear that they come for her and Tommen next.

8 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

During her last conversation with Kevan, her only request is to have Taena brought back to court with her. What does that tell us? It's not because Taena was a great friend or confidant, but because Taena was her only spy among Margaery's circle. She's planning to go back to the same stuff she was doing.

She was while Kevan and Pycelle were still alive. But that has changed now. Nothing is going to stop Mace and Tarly from entering her chambers and having their guardsmen gang-rape or kill her. And we can be reasonably sure that Mace actually knows what Cersei tried to do to Margaery and wants her dead. What stopped him in ADwD was Kevan. But Kevan is gone now.

8 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

All of her power, and Tommen's, draw from the Iron Throne, and she's way too stubborn to run away like a coward. The only person that was planning to send her away was Kevan, and Kevan is dead.

Tommen's life is more important than his throne. Especially in light of the safety Casterly Rock can provide.

8 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

Her running away to try and make an alliance with Euron is also kinda nonsensical. No one on either side would want to work with the other, there is no reason to. It's a ludicrous gamble; she has a better chance of clinging to power in KL than anywhere else. 
Either way, the Tyrells are headed towards doom like a bullet train, and Cersei is gonna be back in power sooner or later. Count on it.  

It is pretty obvious that Cersei and Euron will end up together. They both need allies, and Dany is not coming. Euron has to take the second best thing if he can't have the dragon queen for the time being. The Queen Dowager and Lady of Casterly Rock is that next best thing. And Cersei will just want to see the world burn once her children are all dead. Euron will be able to offer her just that. And possibly even pretty good sex.

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6 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

If the theorized marriage between Cersei and Euron takes place, what is your (collective) input on THAT small council?

:o

I doubt they will have a Small Council. They are far beyond such technicalities. Whether Euron and Cersei will ever be able to set up some proper government in KL is impossible to say at this point. Nor can we make good guesses who might be alive by that point and willing to actually work with them.

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10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It is pretty obvious that Cersei and Euron will end up together. They both need allies, and Dany is not coming. Euron has to take the second best thing if he can't have the dragon queen for the time being. The Queen Dowager and Lady of Casterly Rock is that next best thing. And Cersei will just want to see the world burn once her children are all dead. Euron will be able to offer her just that. And possibly even pretty good sex.

I don't see it. Absolutely no one would follow Cersei if she tried to ally Casterly Rock to the Ironborn. Her servants would poison her food within the week. The bad blood between these two groups is historical, and not even with Tommen's influence (who won't even be in KL) will she be able to cement this alliance. I also highly doubt the Ironborn captains who are drunk on plunder and victories would ever consider forming an alliance with her. They have no need to, they want all that glory for themselves. 
That's not to say she can't help Euron in some way, but a marriage? I dunno.

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Regent - Margaery Tyrell

Hand of the king - Mace Tyrell

Lord commander of the kingsguard - Jaime Lannister

Master of Laws - Randyll Tarly

Master of Ships - Paxter Redwyne

Master of Coin - Harrys Swift        

Master of Whispers - none

Grand Maester - a Tyrell one

Advisor -  Nymeria Sand

This will be the Small Council before the battle of Storm's End. Mace will declare Margaery innocent and avoid her trial. Then he leaves for Storm's End, loses the batte and Cersei arrests Margaery and regains her position as Regent.

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12 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

I don't see it. Absolutely no one would follow Cersei if she tried to ally Casterly Rock to the Ironborn.

That is a bold claim.

12 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

The bad blood between these two groups is historical, and not even with Tommen's influence (who won't even be in KL) will she be able to cement this alliance. I also highly doubt the Ironborn captains who are drunk on plunder and victories would ever consider forming an alliance with her. They have no need to, they want all that glory for themselves. 
That's not to say she can't help Euron in some way, but a marriage? I dunno.

I'm not saying that the entire West is going to stand at Cersei's side in all this. There might be a rebellion against her, and I could even see some Lords of the West declare for Aegon in the weeks and months to come. There is no strong Lannister leadership right now and while Targaryen loyalists and relations (like the Plumms) might not have dared opposing Tywin they might find the courage to oppose Cersei and her cousins.

But Cersei could certainly punish any such rebels with Euron's help. They have a lot to give to each other.

Euron is a calculating evil genius. He is not in the game for plunder and spoils. He wants the Iron Throne. And he is likely to take it at one point in the story.

Also keep in mind that it would have been so easy for Euron and George to have the Ironborn attack a defenseless Lannisport and West in AFfC. The Lannisters have no sizable fleet since it was destroyed during Balon's Rebellion, and the West is much more richer in gold and valuables than the Shield Islands. Not to mention that the West is so much closer to the Iron Islands than the Reach.

You also have to keep in mind that a sizable number of Lords of the West and Lannister relations in Casterly Rock and Lannisport won't look kindly at all on the manner the Faith and the Tyrells treated Lord Tywin's daughter, the Queen Dowager and their own Ruling Lady of Casterly Rock, especially not if events connected to the Faith and the Tyrells will also lead to the deaths of Tommen and/or Myrcella.

A lot is made out of this 'the North remembers' thing but we can be reasonably sure that the West also does remember humiliations and betrayals. Just think what might happen when Varys or somebody else drops the bomb that the Tyrells were involved in/the ones behind the murder of King Joffrey. Should that happen Cersei and many other Westermen might be very determined to completely destroy House Tyrell (just as Catelyn, and many Riverlords and Northmen are right now doing everything to destroy the Freys).

And Euron and the Ironborn would be their natural allies in this since they are already fighting the Tyrells right now. The enemy of your enemy is your friend (or at least your ally/partner).

If George intends for Cersei and Euron to hook up later down the road he ensured that this would still make sense narratively. There were no open hostilities between the Ironborn and the Lannisters during the War of the Five Kings, not under Balon and Tywin and not under Euron and Cersei. By comparison, an alliance between the North and the Iron Islands or the North/Riverlands and the West would be much more difficult to sell to the reader in the wake of the events during the War of the Five Kings.

We can see other such hints with Quentyn's botched mission to marry Daenerys - it provides the necessary political background as to why there won't be an alliance between Sunspear and Daenerys upon her arrival in Westeros.

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