Free folk Daemon

Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne?

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Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne? I don't know of any hints towards this but I heard Tony Teflon of Teflon TV say he believes he did so in this link (54:35). Any thoughts/theories please?

 

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Heck no. There is no proof that it was Brandon who had sex with Ashara, let alone to rape her.

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2 hours ago, Free folk Daemon said:

Did Brandon Stark rape Ashara Dayne? I don't know of any hints towards this but I heard Tony Teflon of Teflon TV say he believes he did so in this link (54:35). Any thoughts/theories please?

 

I don't think even Brandon could have gotten away with raping Ashara.  It doesn't mean he didn't get her drunk and seduced her. 

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He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would do that. Hoster calls him a gallant fool, not a creepy dude. Probably just Ned or Brandon slept with her and  Ser Barristan sees that as a dishonour.

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1 minute ago, theblackdragonI said:

He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would do that. Hoster calls him a gallant fool, not a creepy dude. Probably just Ned or Brandon slept with her and  Ser Barristan sees that as a dishonour.

It could be this.  Consensual sex but the conservative types may still see this as taking advantage of Ashara because he didn't marry her afterwards. 

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Posted (edited)

Well, not like he could marry Ashara, considering he was betrothed to Catelyn. Hoster Tully would not be happy that his house was cast aside in such a way.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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You know how GRRM's twists are almost always the opposite of what he tells us? 

So if Barristan says Ashara was taken advantage of most likely it was consensual. 

Also, literally everyone in the books says Ned had sex with Ashara, so that's clearly false. We can discard Barristan too, as well as Jon Connington, for obvious reasons. 

Then of the people who danced/talked with Ashara that night at the Tourney we're left with Brandon and Oberyn. 

Arguments for Oberyn:

- Ashara supposedly had a stillborn girl. Oberyn is known for fathering girls.

- Oberyn is Oberyn. 

Arguments for Brandon: 

- The way GRRM sneaks him in that paragraph of Ashara's suitors is suspicious.

- Lady Dustin tells us Brandon had no qualms in seducing highborn ladies.

- There's a possibility Ashara killed herself after Brandon's death because she fell in love with him or some shit. 

And there are also other dark horse contenders I wouldn't rule out yet, like Howland Reed or even that creep Aerys.

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I thought Aerys had already sworn off women even before the Defiance of Duskendale.

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31 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought Aerys had already sworn off women even before the Defiance of Duskendale.

You are correct, he had.

To the OP, even the most critical reading of Brandon's character would yield no references to him forcing himself on women. Now, I don't put it past him to have seduced her and then treated her like garbage, leading to regret on her part. But that's not rape, it's just being an asshole.

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Well I do think people are slightly misrepresenting Brandon here.  Barberys words were that Brandon was never shy about taking what he wanted.  IMO, that is highly suggestive of rape. 

That being said I don't know if that can be considered evidence of him raping Ashara.

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5 hours ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

Heck no. There is no proof that it was Brandon who had sex with Ashara, let alone to rape her.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought Aerys had already sworn off women even before the Defiance of Duskendale.

Yup but people still like to think of Aerys as a rapist. World Book makes a big deal out of him stopping being a womanizer before that. Still Maesters have been wrong before.

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Barristan's comment that 'Stark' dishonoured her, as well as Lady Dustin's comment that Brandon likes virgins, lead me to think that he was the father of her child, at least. Whether or not it was rape remains to be seen, and we will likely never know. You're talking about different POV's, some of which may be unreliable, about two people who are dead.

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8 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Well I do think people are slightly misrepresenting Brandon here.  Barberys words were that Brandon was never shy about taking what he wanted.  IMO, that is highly suggestive of rape. 

That being said I don't know if that can be considered evidence of him raping Ashara.

Given the context, I tend to interpret this as having no qualms about seducing ladies, and since Barbrey was more than willing, he didn't even have to make any effort. But I supposed that you may be right and that it wouldn't be beyond Brandon to more than just insist. :unsure:

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It would lend credence to the theory that Arthur Dayne found out and then was more then willing to help Rhaegar kidnap Brandon's sister as revenge. I highly doubt it though. 

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Brandon was a ladies' man but I don't think there's anything to suggest he was a rapist. He and Ashara would have been two of the most beautiful people at the Tourney, and the hottest ones always pair off. We don't know much about Ashara other than she was Dornish, which implies she was more open to pre-marital sex than other highborn young ladies. She must have known he was betrothed, yet she hooked up with him anyway, so I believe (or maybe hope) she actually cared for him and wasn't just having a Tourney fling.

Ned was merely Brandon's "in" with Ashara, an excuse to talk to her. And it worked, because all these years later it's still Ned and Ashara who are gossiped about, and nobody ever mentions her with Brandon. Barristan knows, though.

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How? Why? How did the video even...?

Is there anything substantial who back this theory up? Anything at all? Or is it just random mumbling? Like somehow, Brandon talk to Ashara for Ned, think that he want her himself to fuck with Ned and then somehow this turns out to be a rape?  And I don´t think that person in the video necessary has pegged Neds and Brandons relationship here. He just assumes relations brother to brother just must be in a certain way. 

Now, I am going to go write about my theory that Mace Tyrell kidnapped a fleeing Arthur Dayne, took him to Highgarden, tied him up in his sex dungeon and had him anally. I have some great evidence. Namely that I say the books should be interpreted that way. Its evidence, right?

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I've always got the impression that Barristan meant Ashara went to "Stark" as comfort after someone dishonoured her.

 

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A valid interpretation and one GRRM almost certainly wanted considered given the wording of both Barristan and Barbrey. But unlikely, she's too high and connected for it to pass without event and you'd expect some reservation from Ned towards his memory of Brandon if it were the case.

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37 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

Now, I am going to go write about my theory that Mace Tyrell kidnapped a fleeing Arthur Dayne, took him to Highgarden, tied him up in his sex dungeon and had him anally.

I think I speak for everyone when I ask you to write this up as fanfiction and share it with the group.

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