Floki of the Ironborn

What do you think was the most and the least moral act committed in the series and why?

39 posts in this topic

Most: Jon Snow defying old prejudices to save Free folk from the Others.

Least: Tywin's treatment of Tysha and Tyrion

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Most: Dany freeing the slaves of SB

Least: The sack of Saltpans

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4 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I'm curious to see where other people's ethics lie.

Tough question. Are you going to participate and reveal yours?

One of the least is what Tywin did to Tyrion & his crofter girl wife. Reason -- Tywin forced Jaime to be complicit in the lie. The girl was violently used and the ordeal pretty much convinced Tyrion that no woman would/could love him.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion XI   "Tysha?" His stomach tightened. "What of her?"  "She was no whore. I never bought her for you. That was a lie that Father commanded me to tell. Tysha was . . . she was what she seemed to be. A crofter's daughter, chance met on the road."  <snip>  "She wed me." "For your gold, Father said. She was lowborn, you were a Lannister of Casterly Rock. All she wanted was the gold, which made her no different from a whore, so . . . so it would not be a lie, not truly, and . . . he said that you required a sharp lesson

One the most was when Yoren snatched up Arya in KL and tried to get her to WF. Also, he wouldn’t give up Gendry to the Gold Cloaks. Reason – Yoren didn’t have to protect either one of them. He chose to – as he told Arya:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Arya I   "Here's something you don't know. It wasn't supposed to happen like it did. I was set to leave, wagons bought and loaded, and a man comes with a boy for me, and a purse of coin, and a message, never mind who it's from. Lord Eddard's to take the black, he says to me, wait, he'll be going with you. Why d'you think I was there? Only something went queer."

 

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Least: Dany, committing genocide and killing children because of who their parents were. 

Most: Either Stannis helping the NW or Jon helping the Free Folk.

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Most: Blackfish protecting the hell out of the castle he was born in. Or Dany freeing the slaves bc slavery is bad 

Least: Biological warfare in Mereen bc you kill many more innocents than necessary 

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Most: Dany freeing the slaves

Least: Saltpans massacre by Rorge and this other bastards

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Least: Completely senseless acts of cruelty against the defenseless, like by the Mountain's gang.

Most: I just reread Brienne potentially facing off a big group of rape happy soldiers to save one farmer's woman, who previously looked at her as if she was a compelte freak. True hero. 

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18 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Most: Blackfish protecting the hell out of the castle he was born in.

:thumbsup:

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Most: Ned warning Cersei to leave with her children. Least: the treatment of house Huett by Euron.

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Most:  Ned warning Cersei to leave with her children.  Good call @Endymion I Targaryen

Least:  Everything the Mountain and his gang did, especially the rape of the talkative inn keepers daughter.

I am not including the Tysha incident because we have a very one sided look on the event that happened 15+ years ago, so I don't regard a lot of details around it as factual but as alleged.  Men had sex with her, Tyrion went last, she was paid.  Her motives and whether she was actually some innocent girl who didn't know any better who loved Tyrion or whether she was an opportunist seeking gold are unclear to me.

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Actually I change my mind, least moral act is anything Varamyr Sixskins did, especially warging into another human and sending his shadowcat to coerce women into sleeping with him or being killed.

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31 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I am not including the Tysha incident because we have a very one sided look on the event that happened 15+ years ago, so I don't regard a lot of details around it as factual but as alleged.  Men had sex with her, Tyrion went last, she was paid.  Her motives and whether she was actually some innocent girl who didn't know any better who loved Tyrion or whether she was an opportunist seeking gold are unclear to me.

Har de har harr, bait much do ya?

Tyrion talks about the incident multiple times.

Jaime's confessing to Tyrion about his [Jaime’s] collusion in the assault on the girl means nothing? Like words are wind?

Soooooooooooo, Tryion miss remembers what happened when he was 13 and Jaime lies during his confession when Tyrion is in the dungeon.

What ever the girls motive, she didn't deserve what happened.

But hey, this gang rape of young Tyrion's wife is a hot topic. Never mind that young Tyrion's daddy was the instigator.

 

 

 

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@Clegane'sPup if Tyrion is telling it true then there is no exaggerating how evil vile and atrocious the act was.  Tywin telling Jaime to lie if Tywin had proof Tysha was an opportunist doesn't make sense.  But weighing all information about the incident I cant say we have enough hard facts to say it was as Tyrion described.

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Most Moral Act:  Daenerys Targaryen working to end slavery.

 

Least Moral Act:  Jon Arryn calling his banners to rebel.  He caused the deaths of many people just to protect Robert and Eddard. 

Edited by Here's Looking At You, Kid

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22 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

@Clegane'sPup if Tyrion is telling it true then there is no exaggerating how evil vile and atrocious the act was.  Tywin telling Jaime to lie if Tywin had proof Tysha was an opportunist doesn't make sense.  But weighing all information about the incident I cant say we have enough hard facts to say it was as Tyrion described.

As Tyrion tells Bronn

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion VI     "He did better than that," Tyrion said. "First he made my brother tell me the truth. The girl was a whore, you see. Jaime arranged the whole affair, the road, the outlaws, all of it. He thought it was time I had a woman. He paid double for a maiden, knowing it would be my first time. "After Jaime had made his confession, to drive home the lesson, Lord Tywin brought my wife in and gave her to his guards. They paid her fair enough. A silver for each man, how many whores command that high a price? He sat me down in the corner of the barracks and bade me watch, and at the end she had so many silvers the coins were slipping through her fingers and rolling on the floor, she …"

The smoke was stinging his eyes. Tyrion cleared his throat and turned away from the fire, to gaze out into darkness. "

Lord Tywin had me go last," he said in a quiet voice. "And he gave me a gold coin to pay her, because I was a Lannister, and worth more." After a time he heard the noise again, the rasp of steel on stone as Bronn sharpened his sword. "Thirteen or thirty or three, I would have killed the man who did that to me."

 

As Jaime tells Tyrion

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Tyrion XI   "Tysha?" His stomach tightened. "What of her?"  "She was no whore. I never bought her for you. That was a lie that Father commanded me to tell. Tysha was . . . she was what she seemed to be. A crofter's daughter, chance met on the road."  <snip>  "She wed me." "For your gold, Father said. She was lowborn, you were a Lannister of Casterly Rock. All she wanted was the gold, which made her no different from a whore, so . . . so it would not be a lie, not truly, and . . . he said that you required a sharp lesson

 

Who is lying? Who is telling the truth? It doesn’t matter because Tywin gave the order. Now imagine your sister, if you have one, being Tysha. It does not matter who is telling the truth. The girl did not deserve the treatment she received. 

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup
had a bit of format problem.

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Most Moral Act: Jon befriending and protecting Sam. "We're not friends, we're brothers." Aw, I teared up a little bit.

 

Least Moral Act: I've always found Daenery's freeing the slaves to be more of a personally selfish act on her part, satisfying her own idealism. She displaces an entire class of people into destitution, disease, and into the midst of a bubbling civil war she created among cities whose only source of economy happened to be in slave trade. She never takes any concrete steps to try and create a system where former slaves can be assimilated into full citizenship (yes, these kinds of political concerns have been around since ancient civilizations). Then she perpetuates their hope by encouraging the idea that she is some kind of messianic mother figure. ¬.¬ My heart goes out to the impoverished of Slaver's Bay. Finger's crossed for a healthy dollop of pragmatism from Tyrion.

Edited by Traverys

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11 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I'm curious to see where other people's ethics lie.

The most ethical is without question the liberation of the slaves by Dany.  Slavery has to stop and she took on the job even though it gives her back nothing in return. 

The most unethical is the slave trade.  I trust there is no need to explain why. 

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Least ethical: Theon killing the miller's sons, or Sandor killing Micah, or Gregor tormenting the people of the Riverlands, or Drogo destroying MMD's village--gratuitous acts of cruelty against the defenseless.  

Most ethical: Davos saving Edric. He does it because he believes that saving a single life is "everything," which is, I think, the moral center of the novel. He then confesses to Stannis, knowing that he'll probably be burned alive. This is what makes Davos stand out for me: Ned warns Cersei believing that she'll be frightened and leave; he doesn't believe that she'll turn on him and destroy him. Unlike Ned, Davos knows he's risking death by saving Edric, and does it anyway, and he doesn't then run away. He sticks around, and reasons it out with Stannis.

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