RevaM

DID G.R.R.M say anything about possible arya/ jon romance/ reunion????

167 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Okay so i am a firm believer that Jon/Arya WILL happen. There are way too many foreshadowings for the two and i think it would be very anticlimactic if absolutely nothing happened between them. 

the thing is that I've read that balticon interview with G.R.R.M and basically there was a person asking about Jon/Arya and the way jon compares his love interests to arya, and he didn't really openly deny it... all he said was that it was the features jon admired or something

Is there anything else he said about the two? I just have hopes on them and i don't really want all of the foreshadowings and red herrings be for gigs

 

P.S: please please pretty please take your references for this discussion only from the books and not from the show, cuz the show has gone to shit. also the show and the books are now two different things and they handled jon and arya's relationship horribly so that's one of the reason why i don't want anything show related on this discussion. 

Edited by RevaM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

 "Oh little sister!" will take on a whole new meaning if it happens. 

Yep. Not to mention Arya thinking Jon won't be calling her "little sister" anymore. 

Quote

Jon has a mother. Wylla, her name is Wylla. She would need to remember so she could tell him, the next time she saw him. She wondered if he would call her “little sister.” I’m not so little anymore. He’d have to call me something else - Arya, ASoS

^_^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RevaM said:

Okay so i am a firm believer that Jon/Arya WILL happen. There are way too many foreshadowings for the two and i think it would be very anticlimactic if absolutely nothing happened between them. 

the thing is that I've read that balticon interview with G.R.R.M and basically there was a person asking about Jon/Arya and the way jon compares his love interests to arya, and he didn't really openly deny it... all he said was that it was the features jon admired or something

Is there anything else he said about the two. I just have hopes on them and i don't really want all of the foreshadowings and red herrings be for gigs

First, not all romantic love needs to end in some relationship.

Second, there is a big issue of how different Jon will be after returning from death. If we have learned something from Beric & Catelyn, the prospects for him being able to empathize with other people are quite dim. Will he become more wolfish? Will be obsessed with fighting the Others? or taking revenge? Or obsessed with his origins? It's hard to say. Will love be able to 'cure him'? If yes, who? Arya? Val? Dany?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I could honestly say I'll take no pleasure when the whole Jon/Arya fantasy falls flat on its arse, but I can't.

I know, I'm a bad person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rotting sea cow said:

First, not all romantic love needs to end in some relationship.

Second, there is a big issue of how different Jon will be after returning from death. If we have learned something from Beric & Catelyn, the prospects for him being able to empathize with other people are quite dim. Will he become more wolfish? Will be obsessed with fighting the Others? or taking revenge? Or obsessed with his origins? It's hard to say. Will love be able to 'cure him'? If yes, who? Arya? Val? Dany?

 

I like to think that he will as a matter of fact look at Jeyne Poole (now noseless) and think that she is the actual Arya.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, rotting sea cow said:

First, not all romantic love needs to end in some relationship.

Second, there is a big issue of how different Jon will be after returning from death. If we have learned something from Beric & Catelyn, the prospects for him being able to empathize with other people are quite dim. Will he become more wolfish? Will be obsessed with fighting the Others? or taking revenge? Or obsessed with his origins? It's hard to say. Will love be able to 'cure him'? If yes, who? Arya? Val? Dany?

 

yeah that is definitely important (no sarcasm intended jsyk) and i know that not all romances end up in a relationship. but in case you haven't noticed, I'm a hardcore Jonrya shipper so yeah lol :D

and what if  after he get revived he'll become more obsessed with getting arya back? ya know...since Arya was the last thing he thought about before he died...?

and about the "will love be able to cure him...and who?", then its probably arya. because comparing with val and dany, jon was closest to arya. and they have this bonding that is ,well, more of a soulmate thing than anything else. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of all the high-born marriages in GRRM’s world for which we are provided some backstory, only a small percentage were between two people who mutually loved each other and freely wanted that marriage for themselves. The rest were arranged just because the parents said so, or were required by some situation like alliances, money, resources, etc.

Of the small percentage who were able to marry out of mutual love, GRRM came along like a vengeful god in steel-toed boots and squished their happiness like one would squish a pair of happy, cuddly little bugs.

The odds of an HEA out of this series is pretty small given what has been written so-far, and Westeros looks like it may soon be some sort of post-apocalyptic nightmarish hell-hole. Unless you love tragedy (and lots of bug guts) in your love story, then I’d look elsewhere for a love story with better odds of an HEA pay-off.

The closest thing to a happy and healthy marriage in this series is when the characters took an unwanted and sometimes very unfortunate marriage and made the best of it through time and work. See Ned/Cat and Dany/Drago. I don't expect many opportunities for those in said post-apocalyptic nightmarish hell-hole.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Here is a link the the Balticon report the OP was talking about when George said Jon was used to messy hair. The report is in the first post. report is in the first post.

 

Hi @RevaM I got your pm. Thanks for reaching out to me. I will be more than happy to answer your questions there because I try and avoid Arya+ Jon threads because they tend to bring out the worst in certain people (some of whom have already been here). I love talking anything about all of George's stories and will get back to your pm when I can get to my computer. 

Thanks :cheers:

Edited by The Fattest Leech

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Just now, Lollygag said:

Out of all the high-born marriages in GRRM’s world for which we are provided some backstory, only a small percentage were between two people who mutually loved each other and freely wanted that marriage for themselves. The rest were arranged just because the parents said so, or were required by some situation like alliances, money, resources, etc.

 

Of the small percentage who were able to marry out of mutual love, GRRM came along like a vengeful god in steel-toed boots and squished their happiness like one would squish a pair of happy, cuddly little bugs.

 

The odds of an HEA out of this series is pretty small given what has been written so-far, and Westeros looks like it may soon be some sort of post-apocalyptic nightmarish hell-hole. Unless you love tragedy (and lots of bug guts) in your love story, then I’d look elsewhere for a love story with better odds of an HEA pay-off.

 

The closest thing to a happy and healthy marriage in this series is when the characters took an unwanted and sometimes very unfortunate marriage and made the best of it through time and work. See Ned/Cat and Dany/Drago. I don't expect many opportunities for those in said post-apocalyptic nightmarish hell-hole.

 

 

i never said it has to be a HEA. this is asoiaf not disney and I'm well aware of that. what i am saying is that as long as they are together no matter in which circumstances, i'll be happy. i know that the ending will be bittersweet, martin has warned us about it and I'm ready for it. and if they die, then i want them to die together. lol that sounds so cheesy 

Edited by RevaM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

Hi @RevaM I got your pm. Thanks for reaching out to me. I will be more than happy to answer your questions there because I try and avoid Arya+ Jon threads because they tend to bring out the worst in certain people (some of whom have already been here). I love talking anything about all of George's stories and will get back to your pm when I can get to my computer. 

Thanks :cheers:

sure :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RevaM said:

i never said it has to be a HEA. this asoiaf not disney and I'm well aware of that. what i am saying is that as long as they are together no matter in which circumstances, i'll be happy. i know that the ending will be bittersweet, martin has warned us about it and I'm ready for it. and if they die, then i want them to die together. lol that sounds so cheesy 

Gotcha. Reading some of the ship threads, I'm left with the impression that this hasn't occurred to some.

But based on what has been written so far, the bolded has poor odds as well. People in GRRM's world seem to get separated...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Just now, Lollygag said:

Gotcha. Reading some of the ship threads, I'm left with the impression that this hasn't occurred to some.

But based on what has been written so far, the bolded has poor odds as well. People in GRRM's world seem to get separated...

nah fam, remember how jon said "different roads lead to the same castle" (or something like that in GoT/1st book)? yeah, that is probably a foreshadowing for their reunion, and besides they have been separated for far too long. and according to the outline arya was supposed to head to the night's watch anyway. but apparently george realised that arya would be more useful if she learned some tricks or had something special up her sleeves (as if an army of wolf pack+nymeria isn't enough for her lol) so he sent her off to bravoos AND THEN she'll probably go to castle black. (she's been wanting go there since book 1)

Edited by RevaM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, RevaM said:

nah fam, remember how jon said "different roads lead to the same castle" (or something like that in GoT/1st book)? yeah, that is probably a foreshadowing for their reunion, and besides they have been separated for far too long. and according to the outline arya was supposed to head to the night's watch anyway. but apparently george realised that arya would be more useful if she learned some tricks or had something special up her sleeves (as if an army of wolf pack+nymeria isn't enough for her lol) so he sent her off to bravoos AND THEN she'll probably go to castle black. (she's been wanting go there since book 1)

I'm sure they'll end up at the same castle at some point. It's not the getting together which has poor odds, it's being able to stay together once reunited which is so unlikely. The pattern is clear when you look at the movements of his other characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lollygag said:

I'm sure they'll end up at the same castle at some point. It's not the getting together which has poor odds, it's being able to stay together once reunited which is so unlikely. The pattern is clear when you look at the movements of his other characters.

yeah ok then, you got a point. But hey, a girl can dream lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the original outline, which George RR says is now largely out the window, had Jon and Arya finding romance and marriage together. Nonetheless, there's a close brother-sister relationship between them. I hold to the outdated belief that people can love one another without banging and marriage.

Moreover, as we know, Jon is apparently dead. There looks to be a good chance he'll come back - and what will change? Will he have more of the wolfish nature, having sought refuge in Ghost while his body bled out? Will he have had prophetic dreams, like Bran did? Might his actual parentage be revealed to him? Will he, as Ghost, be in communication with Nymeria and Summer and Shaggydog? And, by extention, what his cousins Arya, Bran and Rickon are doing and where they are? Face it, Jon could potentially learn a lot more by being dead for awhile that he would have as a living man.

Arya asked her father, way back in the first book, whether she could be a King's hand. Were Jon the King of the North (at least), Arya would be a loyal, highly trusted, not to mention well informed and cosmopolitan advisor to him. Someone who knew how to gather and weigh intelligence, and put it all together. I think this outcome would be preferable, not to mention less unsavory, than her and Jon getting it on.

My apologies to the romantics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, RevaM said:

Okay so i am a firm believer that Jon/Arya WILL happen. There are way too many foreshadowings for the two and i think it would be very anticlimactic if absolutely nothing happened between them. 

the thing is that I've read that balticon interview with G.R.R.M and basically there was a person asking about Jon/Arya and the way jon compares his love interests to arya, and he didn't really openly deny it... all he said was that it was the features jon admired or something

Is there anything else he said about the two. I just have hopes on them and i don't really want all of the foreshadowings and red herrings be for gigs

A Jon-Arya romance was/is a part of the original outline for the novels.  

Edited by Widowmaker 811

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 4/21/2017 at 10:11 AM, zandru said:

Well, the original outline, which George RR says is now largely out the window, had Jon and Arya finding romance and marriage together.

Here is a link to the Balticon report if you want to read George's own words about the outline, how he was making "shit up", and what he says about Arya and Jon. Here is a link to the Balticon report

Actually, the outline does not say that Jon and Arya will find romance and marriage together.

And I think sometimes people forget that George started the outline letter telling the agent upfront that he has no idea how it is all going to play out:

"As you know, I don't outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it."

Also, we have ZERO idea of how the ending was thought to possibly go because it was blacked out.

http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-was-supposed-to-be-a-trilogy-2015-2

Here is the letter:

Dear Ralph,

Here are the first thirteen chapters (170 pages) of the high fantasy novel I promised you, which I'm calling A Game of Thrones. When completed, this will be the first volume in what I see as an epic trilogy with the overall title, A Song of Ice and Fire

As you know, I don't outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it. I do, however, have some strong notions as to the overall structure of the story I'm telling, and the eventual fate of many of the principle characters in the drama. Roughly speaking, there are three major conflicts set in motion in the chapters enclosed. These will form the major plot threads of the trilogy, [unclear] each other in what should be a complex but exciting (I hope [unclear] tapestry. Each of the [unclear] presents a major threat [unclear] of my imaginary realm, the Seven Kingdoms, and to the live [unclear] principal characters.

The first threat grows from the emnity between the great houses of Lannister and Stark as it plays out in a cycle of plot, counterplot, ambition, murder, and revenge, with the iron throne of the Seven Kingdoms as the ultimate prize. This will form the backbone of the first volume of the trilogy, A Game of Thrones.

While the lion of Lannister and the direwolf of Stark snarl and scrap, however, a second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. The Dothraki invasion will be the central story of my second volume, A Dance with Dragons.

The greatest danger of all, however, comes from the north, from the icy wastes beyond the Wall, where half-forgotten demons out of legend, the inhuman others, raise cold legions of the undead and the neverborn and prepare to ride down on the winds of winter to extinguish everything that we would call "life." The only thing that stands between the Seven Kingdoms and an endless night is the Wall, and a handful of men in black called the Night's Watch. Their story will be [sic] heart of my third volume, The Winds of Winter. The final battle will also draw together characters and plot threads left from the first two books and resolve all in one huge climax.

The thirteen chapters on hand should give you a notion as to my narrative strategy. All three books will feature a complex mosaic of intercutting points-of-view among various of my large and diverse cast of players. The cast will not always remain the same. Old characters will die, and new ones will be introduced. Some of the fatalities will include sympathetic viewpoint characters. I want the reader to feel that no one is ever completely safe, not even the characters who seem to be the heroes. The suspense always ratchets up a notch when you know that any character can die at any time.

--

Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.

This is going to be (I hope) quite an epic. Epic in its scale, epic in its action, and epic in its length. I see all three volumes as big books, running about 700 to 800 manuscript pages, so things are just barely getting underway in the thirteen chapters I've sent you.

I have quite a clear notion of how the story is going to unfold in the first volume, A Game of Thrones. Things will get a lot worse for the poor Starks before they get better, I'm afraid. Lord Eddard Stark and his wife Catelyn Tully are both doomed, and will perish at the hands of their enemies. Ned will discover what happened to his friend Jon Arryn, [unclear] can act on his knowledge [unclear] will have an unfortunate accident, and the throne will [unclear] to [unclear] and brutal [unclear] Joffrey [unclear] still a minor. Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Arya escape back to Winterfell.

Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue. Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Arya, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family.

Young Bran will come out of his coma, after a strange prophetic dream, only to discover that he will never walk again. He will turn to magic, at first in the hope of restoring his legs, but later for its own sake. When his father Eddard Stark is executed, Bran will see the shape of doom descending on all of them, but nothing he can say will stop his brother Robb from calling the banners in rebellion. All the north will be inflamed by war. Robb will win several splendid victories, and maim Joffrey Baratheon on the battlefield, but in the end he will not be able to stand against Jaime and Tyrion Lannister and their allies. Robb Stark will die in battle, and Tyrion Lannister will besiege and burn Winterfell.

Jon Snow, the bastard, will remain in the far north. He will mature into a ranger of great daring, and ultimately will succeed his uncle as the commander of the Night's Watch. When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Arya. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Ben jen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. Arya will be more forgiving ... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.

--

Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Arya's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others.

Over across the narrow sea, Daenerys Targaryen will discover that her new husband, the Dothraki Khal Drogo, has little interest in invading the Seven Kingdoms, much to her brother's frustration. When Viserys presses his claims past the point of tact or wisdom, Khal Drogo will finally grow annoyed and kill him out of hand, eliminating the Targaryen pretender and leaving Daenerys as the last of her line. Danerys [sic] will bide her time, but she will not forget. When the moment is right, she will kill her husband to avenge her brother, and then flee with a trusted friend into the wilderness beyond Vaes Dothrak. There, hunted by [unclear] of her life, she stumbles on a [something about dragon eggs] a young dragon will give Daenerys [unclear] bend [unclear] to her will. Then she begins to plan for her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms.

Tyrion Lannister will continue to travel, to plot, and to play the game of thrones, finally removing his nephew Joffrey in disgust at the boy king's brutality. Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders. Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Arya Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow.

The next graph is blocked out.

But that's the second book ... 

I hope you will find some editors who are as excited about all of this as I am. Feel free to share this letter with anyone who wants to know how the story will go. 

All best,

George R.R. Martin

Quote

 

Nonetheless, there's a close brother-sister relationship between them. I hold to the outdated belief that people can love one another without banging and marriage.


I agree.

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Here is the letter:

Thanks! This was great - there's no substitute for hard data, particularly when trying to speculate!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

23 hours ago, zandru said:

Well, the original outline, which George RR says is now largely out the window, had Jon and Arya finding romance and marriage together. Nonetheless, there's a close brother-sister relationship between them. I hold to the outdated belief that people can love one another without banging and marriage.

Moreover, as we know, Jon is apparently dead. There looks to be a good chance he'll come back - and what will change? Will he have more of the wolfish nature, having sought refuge in Ghost while his body bled out? Will he have had prophetic dreams, like Bran did? Might his actual parentage be revealed to him? Will he, as Ghost, be in communication with Nymeria and Summer and Shaggydog? And, by extention, what his cousins Arya, Bran and Rickon are doing and where they are? Face it, Jon could potentially learn a lot more by being dead for awhile that he would have as a living man.

Arya asked her father, way back in the first book, whether she could be a King's hand. Were Jon the King of the North (at least), Arya would be a loyal, highly trusted, not to mention well informed and cosmopolitan advisor to him. Someone who knew how to gather and weigh intelligence, and put it all together. I think this outcome would be preferable, not to mention less unsavory, than her and Jon getting it on.

My apologies to the romantics.

First of all, i dont think the outline is largely out the window. Everything that has happened in the outline did happen in the books but in a different way. winterfell still got burned down but by a different person, sansa sort of betrayed her family but she didn't give birth to joff's kid, jaime's sadistic demeanour was given to cercei, robb and catelyn died but in a different way, ned also died, tyrion/arya/jon love triangle turned in to jon/fake!arya/ramsay and etc. basically the skeleton of the story is still there. 

BTW Doesn't Ned reply to arya by saying she will marry a king and will have his children and etc.? That is a foreshadowing you know? it isn't there out of blue especially when there are no other kings for her to marry (unless Ned secretly ships her and jon together.heh). sure, being the hand would be cool, but who will be the queen? dany? sansa? That would ruin arya and jon's relationship entirely and it would be even worse if jon married the latter.(if he marries sansa then it means EVEN JON, the guy that always thought of arya as his #1 prefers sansa over her)

 i also like to imagine arya and jon being like king jahaerys and good queen alyssane since there are so many parallels here and there. And alyssane was Jaeherys' most trusted advisor so why can't it be the same with jon and arya? why can't arya be jon's queen and the hand/most trusted advisor?

If you prefer them as platonic then its fine, really it is. 

Edited by RevaM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.