RevaM

DID G.R.R.M say anything about possible arya/ jon romance/ reunion????

58 posts in this topic

50 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Pleasing? Dunno. But it would be a controversial chapter for sure! Would George have the nerves to write it? :o;)

 

GRRM has no problems about describing the screams of horses who've had their legs chopped off. Or of Nymeria unknowingly dragging the body of Catelyn to the river bank (presumably to eat it) and so on.

Two direwolves mating? Piece of cake. ;)

 

54 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Nothing is certain until George releases the next book. The manner of Jon's "resurrection" will almost certainly be different to what D&D mashed together. 

If, indeed, he resurrects the character. Maybe  D&D decided a tradeoff.

Not to resurrect Catelyn (BOOK VERSION), and instead resurrect Jon (HBO VERSION).

Who can say before TWOW is published? :blush:

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4 hours ago, DutchArya said:

"Groggy" is the best explanation? ^_^

That whole scene was precisely crafted by George and has an usually similar air to the scene with Cersei and Maggy the Frog:

_________________

Ned answers each of Arya's questions in an odd way as well:

~

ARYA: Can I be a king’s councillor?

NED: You will marry a King. (A Queen can be a King's Counsellor - case in point: Alysanne Targaryen (who became Queen at 12 years old, marrying her brother)

~

ARYA: [Can I] build castles?

NED: [You will] rule his castle. (As a Queen would.)

~

ARYA: [Can I] become the High Septon?

NED: Your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon. 

~

Both Cersei and Arya don't understand. But fate has a funny way of happening. As we see play out with Cersei.

Ned wasn't groggy. He was an instrument of foreshadowing. He had another conversation with his other daughter telling her she would marry a High Lord, making her a Lady. 

 

The people Arya looks up to were powerful women in a lot of ways - including through motherhood.Why is that a bad thing? What is there to disparage. "Glorified brood sow". Like Queen Nymeria was and the other 2 Lady brood sows who helped conquer Westeros...etc. This is just perplexing to me. 

If you think George is going to give these Stark kids the fate they all wanted and expected... then I think we're in for some major disappointment. 9 year old Arya never wanted to be a Lady. Yet she is learning how to be anything she needs to be - while remaining herself on the inside. The setup is already available for George to go down whatever path he wishes. The bittersweet ending that has Arya sacrificing her freedom and taking on a role that forces her to become something she never thought she would be... seems like a GRRM-ing things to do.  

 

 

 

heh looks like we're on the same boat :) high 5!

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4 hours ago, DutchArya said:

By the time Jon & Arya meet again, they will be very different people. The Jon that returns from being dead will not be the same Jon than Arya last saw at Winterfell. Arya is going through a transformation as well. We already have Jon wondering if he would even be able to recognize her again? Arya doesn't think Jon will be calling her "little sister" anymore. Jon seems rather ambivalent when it comes to bedding a sibling if you consider his conversation with Ygritte about Longspear. ...etc.

I agree with you. If there isn't going to be some kind of payoff, I think it's really strange how Grrm have chosen to emphizise their relationship in almoast every Jon and Arya POV. Yes, they have a strong sibling bond, but so does Jon with Robb and Arya with Bran. Why does Grrm think it's that much more important to remind us of Jon and Arya's closeness than the other siblings? And Jon being ressurected and "changing" increases the chances for Jon/Arya in my opinion, because I could not see pre-dead Jon having sexual feelings for his "little sister". But a changed, more "wolfish" Jon on the other hand, I can see it.

I think most of the original outline has made into the books, but not in the same way as the outline stated (Ramsey/fArya/Jon = Tyrion/Arya/Jon, Jaime = Cersei etc.). I think it is glaring obvious that Grrm still planned Jon/Arya in AGOT in my opinion. There's less "obvious" things that could be considered foreshadowing in ACOK and ASOS (minus the Ygritte-Arya comparisons), but I think the foreshadowing became heavier again in AFFC/ADWD. 

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On April 22, 2017 at 1:00 AM, PCK said:

Arya will die in the last book I think. Too many hints at it. No way GRRM has a good end in mind for a character he's given such lines to like "the lone wolf dies, while the pack survives", "I hope your princess dies", and "they'll find you in Spring frozen with your needle in hand."

first of all, there are VERY few hints that foreshadows that and MANY that foreshadows the complete opposite. and the "they'll find you in Spring frozen with your needle in hand." thing doesn't necessarily foreshadow her doom. i think it means something different. here is the whole quote:

"You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You’ll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.” "-Jon to Arya

the quote doesn't say she'll die, it basically says: stop hiding and go back to your room. the longer you keep killing/needling the closer you are to your death. the longer you hide, the harder it will be for you. This gives her a choice whether she should continue to kill and be no one+die alone or come back being arya stark. i really really really hate it when people cut out everything thats before "they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers.” Everyone seems to focus on the the second half of the quote but ignore the first half. the first half of the quote has as much meaning as the second one.  if you will read the quote attentively then you will realise that this is not about arya dying but more about the choice she'll have to make in the future. 

plus the outline specifically says she is one of the 5 main survivors and grrm said that he's sticking to his original ending and arya is part of that ending+he has always known her arc. (and checkhov's gun people, that girl has a purpose! her training in HoBaW+her wolf pack army lurking in the riverlands aren't for nothing! and plus she is like one of the few people who knows the secret tunnel thingy in the red keep, that info is ought to be important! i never understood why so many people want to get rid of her that fast tbh...)

 

Edited by RevaM

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10 hours ago, Gaz0680 said:

Arya may die, but I'm not convinced of that yet. GRRM also puts red herrings in his books to mislead people too. Arya's fate was never just to become an assassin or tools of the Faceless men, then die. She has a much bigger part to play than that.

Also, Arya's own thoughts in the book have contradicted the "lone wolf dies, while the packs survives" line. She has looked at it as most of the pack are dead, yet she, the lone wolf, still lives.

 

finally someone has said it!

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5 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Even Jon/Sansa is less disturbing, mainly because she's older and had an entirely different relationship to Jon growing up than Arya did. 

sansa thought of her as a brother/half brother, the same way arya did. just because she was never close with jon does not mean its less disturbing. sansa was also not that very close with any of her brothers since she rarely thought of them through out the books. 

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6 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Ned's comments were wishful thinking IMO. He's saying "you won't always be a tomboy, one day when you're older you'll want to be married and have babies" and Arya is saying "no, that's Sansa".

I'm really grossed out by the idea of Jon/Arya, more than any other incest pairing in this story. I think it's because they were raised together as brother and sister, and she was so young when they parted - the idea that he's going to develop romantic or sexual feelings towards her once she hits puberty is kind of icky. And yet I don't really have a problem with Jon/Dany or Targ incest in general, just these two. Even Jon/Sansa is less disturbing, mainly because she's older and had an entirely different relationship to Jon growing up than Arya did. 

if it was a wishful thinking then he should have said "lord" instead of "king". i believe its the author speaking/trying to tell us something and not ned

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On 4/21/2017 at 11:49 AM, RevaM said:

Okay so i am a firm believer that Jon/Arya WILL happen. There are way too many foreshadowings for the two and i think it would be very anticlimactic if absolutely nothing happened between them. 

Is there anything else he said about the two. I just have hopes on them and i don't really want all of the foreshadowings and red herrings be for gigs

You only have to wait 3 months -1year to know whether it's going to happen or not.

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14 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

You only have to wait 3 months -1year to know whether it's going to happen or not.

Will the next books are out then?

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1 minute ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

Will the next books are out then?

No. I'm talking about the TV series.

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7 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

No. I'm talking about the TV series.

I see. I disagree since now the TV series and the books are two different things, but I understand what you mean.

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58 minutes ago, GhostNymeria said:

I agree with you. If there isn't going to be some kind of payoff, I think it's really strange how Grrm have chosen to emphizise their relationship in almoast every Jon and Arya POV.

It is for maximum impact when as her king and lord he forces her to marry someone for political purposes.

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38 minutes ago, The Doctor's Consort said:

I see. I disagree since now the TV series and the books are two different things, but I understand what you mean.

I agree that they are two different things now but George has told them about main characters' fate.

Edited by winter daughter

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I favor the Arya/Jon pairing because they are the two people who love each other the most in the entire series. In a world filled with disastrous arranged marriages and destructive sibling rivalry, Arya and Jon's sheer longing for each other is quite sweet to read about. Whatever happens I hope they at least meet again.

Edited by Winter's Cold

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6 hours ago, RevaM said:

sansa thought of her as a brother/half brother, the same way arya did. just because she was never close with jon does not mean its less disturbing. sansa was also not that very close with any of her brothers since she rarely thought of them through out the books. 

Yeah it does, to me. That kind of thing is purely subjective. What disturbs you might be nothing to me, and vice versa. Obviously, because I'm grossed out by the idea of Jon and Arya's sweet sibling relationship turning into something sexual, and you're not.

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9 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Yeah it does, to me. That kind of thing is purely subjective. What disturbs you might be nothing to me, and vice versa. Obviously, because I'm grossed out by the idea of Jon and Arya's sweet sibling relationship turning into something sexual, and you're not.

so you think just because two siblings weren't close enough then its an OK for them to hook up later on? that's subjective? Jon thought fondly of Sansa, he mentioned her a few times through out the books. he even declined his right to winterfell because he thought Sansa should have it. sansa taught jon about courtesies when talking to a girl or something like that. 

i also have 3 brothers and i wasn't particularly close with the older one because of our age differences, but if i found out that he's not my brother but a cousins/or a distant realtive, i wouldn't really decide to hook up with him. why? because i was raised thinking he was my brother (also because I'm a gal of the 21st century and incest is a no no for me, but you get what I'm saying.). and the same is for sansa. 

and why not arya? well grrm himself intended them to fall in love despite them being siblings and westermarck effect apparently didn't hit them. they were supposed to have this forbidden love trope (and cousin marriage is totally thing in westeros and even irl.) and by the amount of foreshadowings these two have, its obvious that the books support them.

i said this many times and I'm saying it again, who ever compares their sister's body to the person they're about to have sex with has got some serious issues. and that is not the way you think about your little sister that you apparently have a sweet sibling relationship with.

Edited by RevaM

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1 hour ago, RevaM said:

so you think just because two siblings weren't close enough then its an OK for them to hook up later on? that's subjective? 

No I don't think it's OK, I think it's skeevy. But if he has to hook up with one of his "sisters" then I'm less grossed out by J/S than J/A, because the relationship he had with Arya was a very protective and loving older brother/younger sister bond, whereas with Sansa he was more detached. The idea of Jon and Arya having sex is really disturbing to me.

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On 4/21/2017 at 4:14 AM, chrisdaw said:

I wish I could honestly say I'll take no pleasure when the whole Jon/Arya fantasy falls flat on its arse, but I can't.

I know, I'm a bad person.

"Shipping" in general confuses me in the context of ASOIAF. What on earth would make you think GRRM even believes in love? Go read Meathouse Man and get back to me.

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