Harry & Sansa (Littlefinger is delusional)

[Lynesse]

15 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

You answered your own question there, as to what horrors she's referring to.  Waynwood wouldn't make that comment if it was giving away anything.

That's one "horror", not "horrors", plural. And we hardly know anything about her and what she might or might not say in a moment of indignation.

[Prof. Cecily]

Very true, about those genealogical charts, @Colonel Green.

I'm still struggling with the dragon kings. And Dorne.

Anyway, other posters have said it better, but even so, regicide is not 'just' murder.

While everyone here at the Forum may applaud Joffrey's demise, it would be seen differently by folks in a feudal society. Remember the plays in Braavos depicting the events in KL? Or the epithet KIngslayer?

"Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”

 

 

 

 

 

[Colonel Green]

13 minutes ago, Lynesse said:

That's one "horror", not "horrors", plural. And we hardly know anything about her and what she might or might not say in a moment of indignation.

"Horrors enough" is a common expression.  If a cop said that a teenage witness to a murder had seen "horrors enough", nobody would assume she must have witnessed multiple crimes.

Waynwood is an experienced old lady.  If she knew or suspected who Sansa was, she wouldn't give it away that easily.  Moreover, Sansa herself would have thought there was something odd about that statement if it departed from her cover identity.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

19 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Again, Littlefinger went through this:

Petyr put a finger to her lips to silence her. "The dwarf wed Ned Stark's daughter, not mine. Be that as it may. This is only a betrothal. The marriage must needs wait until Cersei is done and Sansa's safely widowed. And you must meet the boy and win his approval. Lady Waynwood will not make him marry against his will, she was quite firm on that."

Littlefinger has never said anything about annulment.

The wording in this is very particular. He says "the marriage" can wait. This in no way contradicts his statement about bringing her out at "the wedding" as herself. That will stop "the wedding", meaning there will be no marriage at that time, thus "the marriage" will wait. Then after she's free of Tyrion (through his death or through an annulment) and Cersei has lost power, she and Harry can get married if that's actually the plan.

He said nothing about an annulment because he was assuming Tyrion would be dead before long. The readers know that's not the case. If Tyrion doesn't die, then annulment is the only option.

[Lollygag]

Annulment, Tyrion's death, or Tysha turning up are the only solid solutions for Sansa's marriage, but there are some weaker options, too, if LF gets desperate.

Given Sansa’s association with bastards, I’m considering that her marriage status may never be clearly resolved to the satisfaction of everyone.

Here’s a few slimy ambulance chaser lawyer-type arguments that could be used to get Sansa out of her marriage to Tyrion which might work for those who really want it to work, but won’t be satisfactory at all to others:

1. The North was in rebellion at the time of Sansa’s marriage. Joffrey was not her king (as the Northern alliance would see it) and had no authority to marry her off. The only people who had a authority to push any marriage would be Sansa herself if the marriage had been chosen freely (it wasn’t), her king (Robb), her liege lord (also Robb), the head of her family (again, Robb), or her parents (Catelyn). Given that the marriage wasn’t consummated, this might be accepted by the Northern alliance, but not by a Lannister ally.

2. Sansa was married in a Sept. At the time she was married, she was frequently visiting the godswood. Ned was killed on the steps of the Great Sept. Sansa can claim that she quit following the New Gods at this point, committed fully to the old gods, and since there wasn’t also an old gods ceremony, she doesn’t recognize the marriage as valid. No way to prove this, but again, many in the Northern alliance would accept this just because they want to.

 Not sure at all if this is how it'll play out, but there does seem to be some precedent for ambiguity. And LF is totally the type to use slimy arguments if it gets the results that he wants. Such arguments would be especially effective if the Lannisters do something else to really tick off the Vale/Riverlands/Northerners and they'll bite at any excuse to act.

Edit - forgot this part:

GRRM likes his convoluted succession issues, and some characters even have questionable marriage statuses. See Rhaegar/Lyanna and Tyrion/Tysha.

Edit #2 - thought of more ambiguous marriages: a farm animal stood for Asha in her marriage ceremony, so is she really married or not? And if a farm animal is an acceptable proxy, then it can be argued (weakly) that Jeyne Poole is an acceptable proxy for real Arya and that real Arya is the current Lady of Winterfell by proxy marriage.

 

 

[Colonel Green]

57 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

He said nothing about an annulment because he was assuming Tyrion would be dead before long.

No, that conversation occurs long after Tyrion escaped King's Landing.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

3 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

No, that conversation occurs long after Tyrion escaped King's Landing.

Which has nothing to do with what I said. Cersei put a price on Tyrion's head. Littlefinger expects someone who knows about that to kill him and claim the reward. There may be a decent amount of dwarfs in Essos, but few of them will look like Tyrion.

LF didn't count on Tyrion having help from anyone. 

[Colonel Green]

6 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Which has nothing to do with what I said. Cersei put a price on Tyrion's head. Littlefinger expects someone who knows about that to kill him and claim the reward. There may be a decent amount of dwarfs in Essos, but few of them will look like Tyrion.

LF didn't count on Tyrion having help from anyone. 

At that point, Tyrion has been on the run for months.  There'd be reason to expect his capture is imminent; indeed, Littlefinger would most likely assume that Varys helped him escape.

[Lord Varys]

7 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Cregan, likewise, was dealing with people who were sworn to serve Aegon.  Sansa was a hostage, and everybody knows that.

Was she a hostage or his betrothed, the future queen, who was tricked out of her marriage by the Tyrells? There are people who believe the latter. Keep in mind that Joffrey's court was essentially a provincial affair before Tywin and the Tyrells saved it from Stannis. Nobody of note was there nor was there any way how stories about Joff and his behavior or the details of events at court could spread throughout the Realm.

There are rumors that basically states that Sansa is a foul skinchanger who transformed herself into a winged wolf after she slew the king.

Also keep in mind that King Tommen was expected to punish the people involved in the Red Wedding. Yes, Tywin was behind that but what was supposed to be some kind of royal assassination turned into a gruesome slaughter of thousands. The people were expecting justice for this thing, and they were looking to King Tommen for that. His Small Council discusses it and Cersei decides that they would wait until Lord Walder's death and then allow his successor to put down a lot of Freys as 'those responsible for the Red Wedding'.

This strongly suggests that a king or ruler is expected to do justice to his people, even his (former) enemies. That is what kings are supposed to do. And I think both the Red Wedding. the murder of King Joffrey, and the murder of Lord Tywin are crimes of such prominence that a new king - even a Targaryen king - could just not brush them aside and pardon the people who were involved. Not without making the same mistakes as King Robert did. Not punishing Jaime and Tywin's goons for their atrocities and betrayals poisoned his rule from the start.

Quote

By his side I mean he has consolidated control over the Vale, which he will use to put himself at the summit of power.  It's far more beneficial to him to let Aegon and the Lannisters slug it out, and then destroy whoever wins (who will assuredly be weaker).  Aegon is also Varys' agent, so Littlefinger would not be able to obtain maximum influence with him.

Littlefinger has no idea that Varys is behind Aegon. Aegon is coming with Jon Connington and the Golden Company. Neither Varys nor Illyrio are with him.

I agree with you that Littlefinger would be well advised to continue to keep the Vale out of the war. But I don't think he will be able to do so. Sansa, Harrold, and the Lords of the Vale might simply be of the opinion that joining Aegon and carrying the battle (finally) to the Lannister to avenge Jon Arryn as well as Sansa (assuming her true identity is either correctly guessed or publicly revealed sooner rather than later for some reason) would be a much better course of action than sitting tight and doing nothing (again).

Littlefinger has created a movement now. He is the leader of the Vale but that doesn't mean he can make all the decisions by himself. He has to keep his followers, sycophants, and rivals happy. And if Sansa, Harry, the Stark kinsmen in the Vale, and others push him to declare for Aegon and carry the fighting to the Lannisters.

In fact, that could be a further way for Littlefinger to cement and consolidate his hold over the Vale. After all, he would most likely not command the troops of the Vale in person. That could be his opportunity to get Bronze Yohn and others out of the way if he still thinks he has to. Or he could continue to play the game as he is used to, allowing the Lords of the Vale to go to war while writing to KL that he is powerless to stop (all) the Vale lords from committing treason, or something of that sort. After all, he is just Lord Baelish not Lord Arryn.

6 hours ago, Lynesse said:

The official age calculation (in the wiki) puts Harrold Hardyng's age at 18 in 300 AC:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Years_after_Aegon's_Conquest/Calculations_Ages_(Continued)#Harrold_Hardyng

I know that. But that's based on the App. And I'm not sure that's correct. Harry does not come as being about eighteen in Alayne 1. It could be that George originally intended to have Harry be eighteen after the five year gap.

1 hour ago, Colonel Green said:

At that point, Tyrion has been on the run for months.  There'd be reason to expect his capture is imminent; indeed, Littlefinger would most likely assume that Varys helped him escape.

That is far too much speculation for my taste.

I'm with @Lady Blizzardborn here insofar as that Littlefinger clearly does intend to establish Sansa as a widow by the time he marries her to Harry. However, I'm with you that it might not be that problematic if Tyrion is not confirmed to be dead by the time they go through with the marriage - if they go through with it. The betrothal is between Alayne Stone and Harrold Hardyng not between Sansa Stark and Harrold Hardyng, and if they stuck with that for the actual marriage vows it could work that way. Once the wedding and bedding are done and the marriage consummated it would be very difficult to challenge it. Tyrion is not exactly popular, and Harry, Littlefinger, and Sansa are pretty important and powerful people.

[Lord Wraith]

On 4/21/2017 at 6:27 AM, rotting sea cow said:

I'm not a expert on Sansa & Vale plot, but I caught this last night. I was going to post it in the 'I never noticed that' thread, but maybe it's too important.

and earlier

Although Lady Waynwood turned out, unexpectedly...

All for Alayne II in AFFC, the same chapter where Littlefinger reveals the betrothal of Alayne Stone (Baelish's bastard daughter) to Harry the Heir.

As we see the whole thing through Sansa's head, we go along with the plan, despite the evidence of the contrary in the same chapter! Littlefinger is delusional here. It's not gonna work. Vale nobility is one of the most conservative in Westeros.

Anyone who thinks that Baelish's plan being the one he gives to Sansa hasn't been paying attention...

On 4/21/2017 at 6:10 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Yes but revealing her stops the wedding. Sansa can't get married because she's still legally married to Tyrion. She has to get an annulment first. Hence the illustrious @Illyrio Mo'Parties saying the plan doesn't need to work so much as work for "long enough."

The betrothal is a ruse to get Harry around Sansa so he will fall in love with her and when she's revealed to be of equal/better birth, to vow to defend her until his dying breath. Sweetrobin may be the Lord of the Vale in name, but the warriors of the region will follow Harry. If Sansa captures him, she has the Vale. It makes it a heck of a lot harder for Cersei to move against her. And once Cersei is gone, Sansa can go to KL, proclaim her innocence, have a trial (of Seven) to clear her name, and get her marriage to Tyrion annulled. 

Once she's a free woman, she'll be the most sought-after prize in Westeros, and can choose Harry (if he's still living after fighting for her in her trial) or someone else. No matter who she marries, LF expects she will always be grateful to him for saving her life and teaching her how to play the game. Harry and the Vale are small potatoes. LF is aiming higher. Being little Lord Arryn's Lord Protector is just a stepping stone.

Any chance of Baelish outing Tyrion's first marriage invalidating his marriage to Sansa. Apparently you need the High Septon to annul the first marriage and I don't think Tywin bothered with the formality. Also Sansa's marriage to Tyrion was never consumated and the High Sparrow is clearly not a Lannister supporter and might be ameniable to an annulment for Sansa.

On 4/21/2017 at 6:19 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

What bothers me about Sansa and LF in the Vale is this.

Sansa is the wife of Tyrion and a fugitive in hiding because she is thought to be involved in King Joffrey’s death. I'm thinking LF is taking advantage/playing Sansa.

LF spins this marvelous idea to Sansa (13 years of age ?) about being revealed at her & Harry’s wedding and the Vale lords bowing down to Eddard Starks daughter.

Sansa is married and a fugitive. The Iron Throne, the seat of power in Westeros is held by the Lannisters who want Sansa and Tyrion for the death of the King. Would the Vale lords defy the King/Throne?

The Mad Mouse has arrived at Sansa’s location. Somehow he got information about Sansa’s whereabouts? Brienne was wandering around looking for the girl. Brienne gets part of her face bitten off, ends up at LSH's place, gets partially hanged, shouts out a word and ends up seeking out Jaime.

It doesn’t make sense. What's LF up to? If the Lannister's lose the Throne/Crown LF has no clout. Revealing Sansa to the Vale lords would cause a dilemma. They would have to go against the Throne or deliver Sansa to the Crown.

It will be interesting to read how this works out.

The Lords Declarant have been itching to go to war with the Lannisters. I'd imagine they would love to get opportunity to avenge Ned and the Starks.

Baelish's plans will lead to the Riverlands and not the North.

On 4/22/2017 at 8:32 PM, Lord Varys said:

That isn't an issue because Harrold Hardyng is just the heir presumptive to the Vale of Arryn, and not exactly born to high nobility. He is a Hargyng which is basically a nobody. Harry will only be somebody of importance if Lord Robert Arryn dies without issue. Right now that looks rather likely but if nothing came of that 'hope' Harrold would remain a nobody.

A man of Harry's birth - who is neither a lord nor a landed knight in his own right as far as we know - certainly can marry the natural daughter of a great lord. Or at least betroth himself to her. People open objecting to this would admit by doing so that they either wish for Lord Robert's death or don't expect him to have children of their own. If Robert was a king that would be treason, basically. So while a lot of lords in the Vale are likely to be somewhat pissed that Littlefinger secured Harry's hand for his daughter they are not exactly in the position to open object to the match.

It would be different, one imagines, if Harry had been born an Arryn, being Elbert's son or something like that. But he is not.

That is not clear. We don't know whether Harry is already a man grown. If he was it would be very odd that Lady Anya had the right to arrange his marriage. Harry is a Waynwood through the female line but the Hardyngs are a minor noble house in their own right and as far as we know lords only rule the marriages of members of their own house, not the marriages of their vassals and more distant kin.

If Harry was already a man grown he and he alone would decide who he marries, not Lady Anya Waynwood. But if he was still 14-15 or so then he might still be Lady Anya's ward.

But aside from that Littlefinger's power usually rests more with informal power than actual titles and such. As things stand all the Lords Declarant aside from Bronze Yohn Royce are his now, in addition to Lord Lyonel Corbray and the Gulltown houses Grafton and Shett. Littlefinger does not necessarily have to remain Lord Protector of the Vale to continue to call the shots there. Just as he did not need to be Hand of the King to influence Joffrey and exert a lot of power at court.

He may intend to control Harry through Sansa and the informal power he exerts in the Vale.

We can, however, be reasonably sure that Littlefinger wants Sansa for himself. That is very clear. So the entire Harry thing is either a complete charade - just another lesson for Sansa to learn to play the game by manipulating a young man - or merely the next step to gain more influence in the Vale.

If Littlefinger didn't tell Sansa the truth about his ultimate goal with the Harry plan the point of the entire match might be to set up Sansa as a Lysa 2.0. If Harry married and impregnated her and then died she would essentially control the next heir to the Vale. I'm not sure things will go in that direction but since it is pretty obvious that the Winterfell plan Littlefinger laid out for Sansa was something they intend to do next spring not in the middle of winter a lot could have happened during winter.

But now we can be pretty certain that Aegon's arrival will trigger a series of events that will involve the Vale lords finally committing themselves to one of the factions, and both Sansa and Harry might play a role in all that.

A Targaryen prince would be a much better husband for Sansa Stark than the heir presumptive of (or even) the Lord of the Vale. If Littlefinger wants not only Sansa but also to control (or even sit) the Iron Throne going through a Targaryen would be the best way to try to do it.

I agree that Winterfell and the North is a long term plan. Stannis is up there and Winter is coming there is no point heading North any time in the near future.

Aegon and Sansa could be a great match but seeing Baelish and Varys work together again will be rather terrifying.

13 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

I believe that Littlefinger actually, legitimately, wants Sansa to be Queen. But I think it's because Littlefinger understands much more about the magical plots at work, and he knows Sansa's Hoare blood holds the key to Harrenhall.

Magical abilities appear to be enhanced by rule. The more people believe you have power, the more power, magical power, you actually have. Littlefinger seems to be gathering as much of the kingdoms as possible under Sansa: all together, the North, the Rivers, and the Vale are more territory than House Hoare ever commanded, so maybe it's enough to make Harrenhall do... well, whatever it is it's supposed to do.

While I agree Queen Sansa is the current endgame not so such on the whole mystical blood angle. If King's Landing gets destroyed I could see Harrenhal being rebuilt as the new Capitol... its big enough for starters.

12 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Littlefinger doesn't have a side. He is everybody's friend and basically has no enemies. The only man he could not work with was Stannis, for obvious reasons.

Exactly, his flexibility and willingness to work with multiple sides is one of the reasons he has risen as high as he has. Baelish has been working against Stannis from the very beginning.

5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Which has nothing to do with what I said. Cersei put a price on Tyrion's head. Littlefinger expects someone who knows about that to kill him and claim the reward. There may be a decent amount of dwarfs in Essos, but few of them will look like Tyrion.

LF didn't count on Tyrion having help from anyone. 

Well he had plenty of good reason, Tyrion was pretty friendless and it took Jaime threatening Varys to get him out in one piece.

[Colonel Green]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Was she a hostage or his betrothed, the future queen, who was tricked out of her marriage by the Tyrells?

He executed her father and waged war on her brother.  Nobody with an ounce of brains believed she wanted to be there.

Quote

Also keep in mind that King Tommen was expected to punish the people involved in the Red Wedding. Yes, Tywin was behind that but what was supposed to be some kind of royal assassination turned into a gruesome slaughter of thousands. The people were expecting justice for this thing, and they were looking to King Tommen for that. His Small Council discusses it and Cersei decides that they would wait until Lord Walder's death and then allow his successor to put down a lot of Freys as 'those responsible for the Red Wedding'.

This strongly suggests that a king or ruler is expected to do justice to his people, even his (former) enemies. That is what kings are supposed to do. And I think both the Red Wedding. the murder of King Joffrey, and the murder of Lord Tywin are crimes of such prominence that a new king - even a Targaryen king - could just not brush them aside and pardon the people who were involved. Not without making the same mistakes as King Robert did. Not punishing Jaime and Tywin's goons for their atrocities and betrayals poisoned his rule from the start.

Because the Crown's official story was that they had nothing to do with it, so being seen to do something about it would make them look good.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

28 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Anyone who thinks that Baelish's plan being the one he gives to Sansa hasn't been paying attention...

 

 

I think Baelish has no reason to lie to Sansa here. That's the plan, is just that is not the full plan here.

Why don't I think he's lying? Well, for once, I would never believe any word he says, but despite all of his caution, Baelish still needs approval and validation and he can't have that for anyone as he can't trust anybody. Just like Varys had a small moment of "honesty" telling Kevan many things as he was dying, I think LF got the chance to finally say aloud "look how smart I am!" to someone. Which will eventually backfire.

[chrisdaw]

LF's plan is as per the book. That's why GRRM got him drunk to reveal it. It's not everything but what was revealed is what it is.

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

He executed her father and waged war on her brother.  Nobody with an ounce of brains believed she wanted to be there.

Have you forgotten that Sansa ratted out her father to Queen Cersei? And misogyny is a powerful thing in Westeros. Sansa has been accused of regicide and her disappearance did not exactly help her case there. There are people who believe she is guilty.

6 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Because the Crown's official story was that they had nothing to do with it, so being seen to do something about it would make them look good.

And because it is the job of the Crown and the king to do justice. If you are behind an atrocity you at least keep face by giving people the heads of some scapegoats. That's how it is done. But both Robert and Tommen refused to do that. And that backfired eventually.

6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Anyone who thinks that Baelish's plan being the one he gives to Sansa hasn't been paying attention...

Any chance of Baelish outing Tyrion's first marriage invalidating his marriage to Sansa. Apparently you need the High Septon to annul the first marriage and I don't think Tywin bothered with the formality. Also Sansa's marriage to Tyrion was never consumated and the High Sparrow is clearly not a Lannister supporter and might be ameniable to an annulment for Sansa.

No, you don't need the High Septon for that. A council of the Faith also works, whatever that is. If there is need for an annulment the Lord Protector could find enough septons and septas in the Vale to do his bidding. Nobody seems to be rallying to the Faith Militant in the Vale right now.

6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

The Lords Declarant have been itching to go to war with the Lannisters. I'd imagine they would love to get opportunity to avenge Ned and the Starks.

Exactly. Alone they stand little chance. But with Aegon they would not just have a pretender to rally to but also an ally to actually attack KL.

6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Baelish's plans will lead to the Riverlands and not the North.

They cannot reach the Riverlands overland now that snow is blocking the passes. A look on the map shows that Gulltown actually is based on the Bay of Crabs, making it very easy for the Vale troops to go to the Crownlands by ship, say Crackclaw Point, or to Maidenpool to march then on to KL.

Going into the Riverlands makes little sense right now as they would only involve them in a guerilla war there, losing men in a pointless campaign. The Riverlords and the common people there are already dealing with the Lannister oppressors and the Freys there.

6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

I agree that Winterfell and the North is a long term plan. Stannis is up there and Winter is coming there is no point heading North any time in the near future.

Aegon and Sansa could be a great match but seeing Baelish and Varys work together again will be rather terrifying.

I'm not sure it will come to that. Littlefinger would likely try to marry Sansa to Aegon but nothing indicates he knows Varys is behind Aegon and we can be reasonably sure that Varys has no intention to allow Littlefinger to mess with his golden boy. Varys and Illyrio know Aegon could use the support of the Vale but that doesn't mean that Littlefinger's days won't be numbered after he has joined Aegon.

And I'm pretty sure Arianne is going to beat Sansa in the race for Aegon's hand. But then, Arianne can die, too, right?

The road to Winterfell also goes via KL. If Sansa helped a Targaryen pretender to win the Iron Throne she could get Winterfell from his hands, meaning she would not have to conquer the North or hold Winterfell only with the support of the Lords of the North but also with the support of the Crown.

If they went North without doing homage to Aegon or Tommen or whoever sits the Iron Throne at that time these people might decide to not acknowledge Sansa as the new Lady of the North, and that could lead to another war and their defeat in the foreseeable future. Especially if Sansa is still seen as a kingslayer by the public at that time.

6 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Exactly, his flexibility and willingness to work with multiple sides is one of the reasons he has risen as high as he has. Baelish has been working against Stannis from the very beginning.

That is why Littlefinger is going to see Aegon's arrival as an opportunity to gain a new friend rather than a new enemy. He is the kind of guy who actually needs Westerosi support to win and hold his throne. If the Vale declares for him they can demand many rewards and favors from him in return. And that does not just include Littlefinger and Sansa but also the Lords of the Vale in general.

[Clegane'sPup]

On 4/21/2017 at 9:58 PM, chrisdaw said:

For the Lady of the Vale? Duh.

They'd have thrown LF out on his arse too had he not had SR behind the strongest defensive position in Westeros. And when the IT wrote to protest that who they believe to be their man was the rightful regent they'd have told them to get rooted.

Sorry, I'm not understanding the "Duh."

I don't think LF is delusional, I think he is spinning a tale to Sansa. Pimping her. That is a specialty of his.

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A Feast for Crows - Alayne II  . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden's cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell. That's worth another kiss now, don't you think?"

 

[Clegane'sPup]

On 4/22/2017 at 3:42 AM, Illyrio Po'Marties said:

Excellent point, which makes you wonder why he killed Joffrey. (And maybe he didn't, or did so accidentally, but that's by the by.) I suppose he didn't expect Tywin to die and Cersei to be left in charge, nor Cersei to be quite so useless.

I also suppose he has a newer, more powerful patron in the Tyrells, except that were I the Tyrells, I'd (a) figure out pretty quickly that Littlefinger's new bastard daughter was really Sansa, and (b) I'd have him killed even quicker. Why would they leave Littlefinger alive?

I'm a bit uneasy about your post. Basically because there is a poster here by the screen name @Illyrio Mo'Parties

Sansa did tell Dontos that she was invited to Highgarden. Dontos in turn told LF. LF told Lannister. Lannister wed Sansa to Tyrion.

[Lollygag]

ASOS Sansa IV: Sansa glanced at the woman curiously. She was baseborn and unwed, and had borne two bastard daughters for the prince, but she did not fear to look even the queen in the eye. Shae had told her that this Ellaria worshiped some Lysene love goddess. "She was almost a whore when he found her, m'lady," her maid confided, "and now she's near a princess." Sansa had never been this close to the Dornishwoman before. She is not truly beautiful, she thought, but something about her draws the eye.

Perhaps foreshadowing that Sansa's marriage status won't be properly resolved in the end, and that this won't bother her overly much.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 4/23/2017 at 5:00 PM, Colonel Green said:

At that point, Tyrion has been on the run for months.  There'd be reason to expect his capture is imminent; indeed, Littlefinger would most likely assume that Varys helped him escape.

As you say there would be reason to expect his capture is imminent, thus LF expects him to end up dead before long. But if Tyrion doesn't get dead fast enough, an annulment would be Plan B.

Yes he may have assumed that Varys was in on the escape, but he wouldn't know about Illyrio keeping Tyrion alive and delivering him to Aegon, or Jorah kidnapping him to take to Dany as a gift, or the very likely possibility that Dany will take Tyrion on as an adviser.

On 4/23/2017 at 10:43 PM, Lord Wraith said:

<snip

Any chance of Baelish outing Tyrion's first marriage invalidating his marriage to Sansa. Apparently you need the High Septon to annul the first marriage and I don't think Tywin bothered with the formality. Also Sansa's marriage to Tyrion was never consumated and the High Sparrow is clearly not a Lannister supporter and might be ameniable to an annulment for Sansa.

<snip

Aegon and Sansa could be a great match but seeing Baelish and Varys work together again will be rather terrifying.

<snip

There's always a chance. But that would be risky. It depends on whether 1) Tywin got the marriage annulled properly, 2) LF can produce the real Tysha, or 3) LF is willing to let everything hinge on a fake Tysha.

Varys and LF will not work together, they never really have (just have used each other to mutual advantage on occasion). They'll wage shadow war through their little proteges, and when Aegon died, LF will mistakenly think he's won. 

[Colonel Green]

5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

As you say there would be reason to expect his capture is imminent

That should be "no reason".

[Colonel Green]

On 4/24/2017 at 7:24 AM, Lord Varys said:

Have you forgotten that Sansa ratted out her father to Queen Cersei?

That's not widely known, as far as we know.