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What do we know about septa Mordane?


Sigella

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It just now struck me how weird it is for her to work for years in the North but then in KL she knows much and more about court politics, and court life in general. She has to be a noble, since I doubt just any septa would get to govern two young ladies.

Im gonna make a septa Mordane re-read tonight but anyone has any ides about this, I'd love to hear it.

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28 minutes ago, Sigella said:

It just now struck me how weird it is for her to work for years in the North but then in KL she knows much and more about court politics, and court life in general. She has to be a noble, since I doubt just any septa would get to govern two young ladies.

Im gonna make a septa Mordane re-read tonight but anyone has any ides about this, I'd love to hear it.

She is Ashara Dayne.

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No real backstory on SM. Most likely she came from Riverrun since the north still follows the old gods, and yes she is probably highborn given her speech and bearing. But I don't see any indication than she is anything other than what she claims to be: a septa of the faith charged with tutoring the Stark girls.

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She is obviously Jon's mother. It explains why Ned kept her around, why he defended her, and why she was a bit harsh towards Arya (she couldn't raise her own child but had to look after a brat who her lover had with another woman and looked just like her son. Imagine all the complicated emotions that would bring). Also, it would be just like GRRM to have Jon tragically make fun of Mordane's hairy legs without ever realising that she is his mother (not to mention the fact that Jon knows how hairy her legs are implies that he's an incestuous peeping Tom).

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I think Septa Mordane's role was to set up the arcs for Sansa and Arya. She's the nun with the vicious ruler.

Sansa and Arya were told to conform to the Perfect Lady ideal. Sansa bought it 100%, and Arya rejected it 100%. Except no one 100% fits or doesn't fit their social roles. So Sansa repressed part of her personality to conform and Arya repressed parts of her personality to rebel. Hence why they did not get along at all. Sansa represented a part of Arya that she repressed, and Arya represented a part of Sansa that she repressed.

Both girls are now in situations which allow them to experiment beyond these roles. Sansa is a bastard, and Arya has various gigs with the FM. It will be through these roles that each girl discovers the part of themselves they repressed and toss those parts of their upbringing which don't truly fit.

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1 hour ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Damn lol what didn't you like and why do you dislike Preston?

Preston's stick is that he decides that something is cool, and then finds evidence for it. While the rest of this forum pretends that they aren't doing the same while "naturally" developing their hypothesis or some shit. I'm a huge fan because he makes bold statements and goes overboard trying to back them up. His Dorne theory was doing just fine by itself. Heck, that Doran isn't up to anything smart would be a weirder twist than him being so. But then PJ decided to weave it into this massive clockwork with all these moving parts and crazy subplots that make people dismiss the story as a whole. Example, Oberyn killing himself so Qyburn can reanimate TMTR as Robert Strong (lol at her using King Bobby B's name btw) so Cersei will be exposed as a liar after she sends the fake head to Sunspear. That shit is the work of an absolute madman and by all those gods that people embrace do I hope he gets one of them right. 

There is also a more meta debate going on that is kinda fascinating if you're into that shit. PJ likes to incorporate lots of science and non-literary sources into his work and even more crucial, author agenda. . He bases a lot of his theories around the philosophy and history around GRRM and his other works. Which for a lot of people comes of as heresy as in a literary analysis most schools prefer to focus on the text in question. Hell, I even saw one guy in this forum argue that PJ was non-scientific because of his methods. Personally I don't care much for the latter, as it tries to introduce rules that are arbitrary. And any scientist worth a dime knows that if you can't do a controlled test your best chance of having some results is to do as we do in social studies and look to the past. What better evidence of how a book is going to end is there than the trends the author set in his previous books? But I digress.

It all boils down to people reading to much into a book that has been scrutinized down to the font and line space. People waste their time, while entertaining filthy casuals like me, with theories about Mance equals R, R+M =J+D, AD=Q. And when the dust settles some dude making  a joke about Hodor actually won the fucking jackpot. Sometimes people in the story are just people. Like Septa Mordane. Sure GRRM left the door open to wonder and flesh the story out if you like, but for now she ain't no more than the teacher and guardian of two high born ladies.

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She comes from the south and she is probably highborn, but as Septons and Septas drops their family names, we will never know from which house she came from. Septons and Septas are supposed to learn a lot of things, history included.

Septa Mordane is just Septa Mordane, though. I doubt she is a secret "someone".

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2 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Damn lol what didn't you like and why do you dislike Preston?

I am a huge fan of Preston Jacobs, even though I don't always agree with some of his theories.

Like Sondre said, people dislike the fact Preston develops his own theories and at the same time, here they are creating their own theories (some of them really crackpot).

Also, many here went batshit crazy because he created an alternative for the R + L = J, trying to debunk it and as you know, many people accept R + L = J, that brought him a lot of haters. I chose to believe in his theory about Jon and Dany's origins, it is more convincing than the dull and predictable R + L = J.

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3 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

She is Ashara Dayne.

Funny that this was a mistake, because I think it might be true.

2 hours ago, Joy Hill said:

She is obviously Jon's mother. It explains why Ned kept her around, why he defended her, and why she was a bit harsh towards Arya (she couldn't raise her own child but had to look after a brat who her lover had with another woman and looked just like her son. Imagine all the complicated emotions that would bring). Also, it would be just like GRRM to have Jon tragically make fun of Mordane's hairy legs without ever realising that she is his mother (not to mention the fact that Jon knows how hairy her legs are implies that he's an incestuous peeping Tom).

This is also funny but possibly true.

I think it is very significant that Septa Mordane was beheaded and her head was mounted alongside Ned's on the wall of the Red Keep. Details are important in ASOIAF, and that detail is a big one. We don't see Syrio Forel's head or Jory Cassel's head up there with Ned. Yes, Joffrey is going for the maximum shock and horror with Sansa, surprising her with the head of her governess, but I think there's more to the apparent selfish and cruel acts by Joffrey and more to the pairing of Ned and Septa Mordane's decapitated heads.

I haven't done a systematic analysis of the words and symbols associated with Septa Mordane, but I did notice her when I was searching on the word "skirt". GRRM often refers to hiding behind a mother's skirts (especially with reference to kings like Robb and Joffrey or Tommen with Catelyn and Cersei). The first mention of the word "skirt" in the books is the rustling of Septa Mordane's skirts. I think this might be a hint that she is a mother. @Joy Hill, your joking recall of Jon's remark about the Septa's hairy legs could actually strengthen this metaphor. If skirts are associated with mothers of kings, and are a place where a king can hide, then a boy king might notice that his own mother had hairy legs because he was hiding behind her skirt. GRRM isn't coming right out and telling us, but maybe he is hinting that Mordane is Jon's mother.

Of course, I'm also still fascinated by the sewing symbolism. Because I believe that sewing represents the woman's role (usually - Tyrion also sews aboard the Shy Maid) in holding society together or tearing it apart, Septa Mordane's unique role as the instructor of sewing is quite important.

Sigella, I will be interested to hear if you spot anything new or interesting on your Mordane re-read.

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3 hours ago, Sondre said:

Example, Oberyn killing himself so Qyburn can reanimate TMTR as Robert Strong (lol at her using King Bobby B's name btw) so Cersei will be exposed as a liar after she sends the fake head to Sunspear.

That has to be one of the biggest wads of bullshit I have ever heard in my life, and I have talked  to people who (...no...let's not go there...)

I mean I understand he just makes up crap that sounds suprising and shocking in order to get view, but why do people watch that? In order to make fun of it?

I mean...that can't be meant or be taken seriously, right?

....right? :frown5:

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