What do we know about septa Mordane?

[John Suburbs]

Some Anagrams for Septa Mordane:

Dream On Paste

Ran Tapes Mode

Me, Pasta Or Ned

Me Adore Pants

Pardon Me Seat

Repeat Demons

Mean to Spread

Drone Eats Pam

Atoms Ran Deep

Stone Made Rap

No, Mad As Peter

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Just one of the few Septa's in the North trying to make her way in the world. 

[Renly's Banana]

4 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

probably from Kings Landing or Oldtown, and ended up in Riverrun, or from the the riverlands, or from the North but join the faith? who know or cares? is she going to be in TWOW?

 

If a headless Septa Mordane shows up in the next book I think it's time to run. 

[Sigella]

10 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I think Septa Mordane's role was to set up the arcs for Sansa and Arya. She's the nun with the vicious ruler.

Sansa and Arya were told to conform to the Perfect Lady ideal. Sansa bought it 100%, and Arya rejected it 100%. Except no one 100% fits or doesn't fit their social roles. So Sansa repressed part of her personality to conform and Arya repressed parts of her personality to rebel. Hence why they did not get along at all. Sansa represented a part of Arya that she repressed, and Arya represented a part of Sansa that she repressed.

Both girls are now in situations which allow them to experiment beyond these roles. Sansa is a bastard, and Arya has various gigs with the FM. It will be through these roles that each girl discovers the part of themselves they repressed and toss those parts of their upbringing which don't truly fit.

This is an awesome analysis. My only objection would be that it strikes me as a more likely mother-child dynamic rather than sibling. (But then I underestimate sibling rivalry at every turn, being a little sister to the worlds best three older brothers.)

9 hours ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

She comes from the south and she is probably highborn, but as Septons and Septas drops their family names, we will never know from which house she came from. Septons and Septas are supposed to learn a lot of things, history included.

Septa Mordane is just Septa Mordane, though. I doubt she is a secret "someone".

No, I dont really either but... She is itching at my brain now, its something that doesn't sit right.

I get that septas are educated at religion and enough history and politics to understand religion history. But court matters? I'm wondering just how much the average noblewoman knows about court matters.

9 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

probably from Kings Landing or Oldtown, and ended up in Riverrun, or from the the riverlands, or from the North but join the faith? who know or cares? is she going to be in TWOW?

 

Be cause its weird that a northern septa hired to govern two northern ladies all of a sudden turns out to be expert at court matters.

Mock all you like, when Winds come out and we learn that she was bestie to Lemore, born Mordane Martell and once bit Marwyns genitals off- I'm gonna go to town on YOU!

5 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Just one of the few Septa's in the North trying to make her way in the world. 

Yeah, right up until they arrive at KL and she turns out to be the optimal governess in this very different environment.

[Orphalesion]

1 hour ago, Sigella said:

Be cause its weird that a northern septa hired to govern two northern ladies all of a sudden turns out to be expert at court matters.

Except no.

Being of the Faith of the Seven it's likely that Septa Mordaine was born south of the Neck and considering the things she teaches Sansa and Arya it seems quite likely that Catelyn had her come specifically to educate the Stark Girls in the ways of a Southern Court. The two most likely reasons would be that Catelyn wanted to have some familiar culture around her in her new home (and since Martin admitted he forgot to give her ladies, and even if he had most of them would likely have been Northern ladies, as by the customs of feudalism) and that she was grooming her daughters to make favourable matches in the South.

I really don't get this mindset that in order for somebody to know about the ways/legends/culture of a place they HAVE to originate from said place. Old Nan can't be Northern because she knows legends about the South, Septa Mordaine can't be Northern because she knows court politics (let's ignore the fact that the North seems to have courts as well, they just aren't as large or intricate)

Why would people from the North only know about the North? There's books, there's traveling singers (one of the point of minstrels is the spread of news and info) there's tournaments were people meet, there's Masters.... and Westeros has an credibly reliable, incredibly fast way of communication in the form of their ravens. 

I mean do people think that's true for real life as well? That the only people who know about the history or government system of, let's say Sweden would be Swedes? Frankly, that's some 1984 creepy right there.

Septa Mordaine is pretty much a nun and real life Medieval nuns were educated and sophisticated (depending on the convent) for many women up to the 20th century it was actually one of the few ways to get a proper education and to travel regularly (visit other convents going on pilgrimage) So Mordaine doesn't have to be yet another Secret identity in order to be knowledgeable about courts.

[Prof. Cecily]

Instead of relating the septas to medieval nuns, how about relating them to the Bene Gesserit?

Or if that's too big a stretch, how about thinking that knowing about court protocol, etiquette and manners are simply a normal part of the upbringing of the daughters of great House?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

15 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Damn lol what didn't you like and why do you dislike Preston?

Because I know better than liking him. Some of his videos are funny but his so called theories are not theories at all.

 

[Sigella]

1 hour ago, Orphalesion said:

Except no.

Being of the Faith of the Seven it's likely that Septa Mordaine was born south of the Neck and considering the things she teaches Sansa and Arya it seems quite likely that Catelyn had her come specifically to educate the Stark Girls in the ways of a Southern Court. The two most likely reasons would be that Catelyn wanted to have some familiar culture around her in her new home (and since Martin admitted he forgot to give her ladies, and even if he had most of them would likely have been Northern ladies, as by the customs of feudalism) and that she was grooming her daughters to make favourable matches in the South.

I really don't get this mindset that in order for somebody to know about the ways/legends/culture of a place they HAVE to originate from said place. Old Nan can't be Northern because she knows legends about the South, Septa Mordaine can't be Northern because she knows court politics (let's ignore the fact that the North seems to have courts as well, they just aren't as large or intricate)

Why would people from the North only know about the North? There's books, there's traveling singers (one of the point of minstrels is the spread of news and info) there's tournaments were people meet, there's Masters.... and Westeros has an credibly reliable, incredibly fast way of communication in the form of their ravens. 

I mean do people think that's true for real life as well? That the only people who know about the history or government system of, let's say Sweden would be Swedes? Frankly, that's some 1984 creepy right there.

Septa Mordaine is pretty much a nun and real life Medieval nuns were educated and sophisticated (depending on the convent) for many women up to the 20th century it was actually one of the few ways to get a proper education and to travel regularly (visit other convents going on pilgrimage) So Mordaine doesn't have to be yet another Secret identity in order to be knowledgeable about courts.

I'm not trying to say Mordane is a northerner, or that she has to be a northerner. Quite unlikely as most of the north don't adhere to the Seven.

Monastery life during medieval times weren't all that awesome. It was used as punishment for crimes, a stow-away for unwanted or difficult daughters, sisters or mothers. It included hard labour.

It seems to me that the medieval nun-analogy fits better with the Silent Sisters than the Septas. 

 

 

[Sigella]

10 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Some Anagrams for Septa Mordane:

Dream On Paste

Ran Tapes Mode

Me, Pasta Or Ned

Me Adore Pants

Pardon Me Seat

Repeat Demons

Mean to Spread

Drone Eats Pam

Atoms Ran Deep

Stone Made Rap

No, Mad As Peter

Only Mordane: Mean Rod

[Coolbeard the Exile]

16 hours ago, Daena the Defiant said:

No, you fool.

She's the Knight of the Laughing Tree.   It is known.

I conflicted mordane and mordane

[Orphalesion]

13 hours ago, Sigella said:

I'm not trying to say Mordane is a northerner, or that she has to be a northerner. Quite unlikely as most of the north don't adhere to the Seven.

Monastery life during medieval times weren't all that awesome. It was used as punishment for crimes, a stow-away for unwanted or difficult daughters, sisters or mothers. It included hard labour.

It seems to me that the medieval nun-analogy fits better with the Silent Sisters than the Septas.

Then why say it would be strange to have a Northern Septa who is in charge of educating two Northern Girls be knowledgeable about Southern court politics? Really nothing at all is strange about that situation, particularly once we consider Catelyn.

It depends which nuns we are talking about. Just like medieval monks who could be anything from scientists to hermits, medieval nuns came in a  wide variety of flavours.

We had the nuns who were like the silents sisters, their convents being all about seclusion and praying ceaselessly for the salvation of others and the ones who were nurses and had to sow soldiers together after battles. 

And we had the nuns who were more like Septas who did charity and mission work, who educated the daughers of nobles who performed experiments and wrote books and nuns who really flaunted their habits, being seen and admired as they went to every popular pilgrimage in Europe. 

Sure being a nun still sucked, but so did everybody's life in the Middle Ages and being a Septa doesn't seem fun and games either. And in a society were a girl was little more than an asset her father could trade off to one of his friends/associates/whatever even a shitty way out of it sometimes just didn't seem so bad. As a nun you were relatively safe from unwanted advances of any kind and could even draw the Jesus card to get a bit of authority and respect.

The point was that the Septa-like nuns tended to be educated, just like Septas seem to be pretty educated. And a woman in charge of educating noble born girls about how to behave as a lady knowing about courts (and secifically the Royal Court, the most important court there is)  isn't exactly "strange"

[Praetor Xyn]

First and foremost we know she was an awful teacher.

[Daena the Defiant]

On 4/23/2017 at 0:47 AM, Praetor Xyn said:

First and foremost we know she was an awful teacher.

We know that, how exactly?  Because Arya, the headstrong little hoyden tomboy, didn't like her lessons?

Sansa seemed to survive based upon the fundamentals of courtly manners and feminine graces that were imparted upon her by Septa Mordane. Seems like she taught some things well?

[Philokles]

20 minutes ago, Daena the Defiant said:

We know that, how exactly?

Because she makes no effort to make the lessons palatable to all her pupils

Because she singles one pupil out for criticism

Because she is unaware/does not care that one pupil is left-handed

[Praetor Xyn]

57 minutes ago, Daena the Defiant said:

We know that, how exactly?  Because Arya, the headstrong little hoyden tomboy, didn't like her lessons?

Sansa seemed to survive based upon the fundamentals of courtly manners and feminine graces that were imparted upon her by Septa Mordane. Seems like she taught some things well?

In addition to what @Horse of Kentsaid above, the she didn't even capably teach Sansa, otherwise she wouldn't have even been in a situation where survival was a problem.

[Traverys]

On 4/21/2017 at 11:15 PM, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Just one of the few Septa's in the North trying to make her way in the world. 

Awwwwwwwwww, this is a little bit of a tearjerker.

 

1 hour ago, Horse of Kent said:

Because she makes no effort to make the lessons palatable to all her pupils

Because she singles one pupil out for criticism

Because she is unaware/does not care that one pupil is left-handed

You're confusing our modern notion of education with what was the norm for medieval life. It's offensive to our modern sensibilities (similar to emotions evoked by the topics of slavery, women's rights, and aristocracy), but behaving outside of our own personal norm doesn't make her a bad teacher or person. Also, the idea that children were cognitively developing and growing as they aged (rather than just ignorant and in need of vigorous discipline and education) is a modern notion. We know now that a child has to reach a certain age (on average) to have the cognitive faculties to do things like learning to read or basic arithmetic. Thus, medieval parenting and education may seem harsh and unreasonable to us now, but it made sense to people in the past.

The following quote came to mind:

Quote

 

"Fifteenth-century children were by no means spoiled. Their elders enforced strict codes of behaviour and manners and demonstrations of affection were rare. Parental love expressed itself in worldly expectations. Children were expected to be wholly obedient to their parents, and the slightest fault was punished by a beating, in the child’s own interests. One Venetian ambassador commented, ‘The want of affection in the English is strongly manifested toward their children.’ When he asked some parents why they were so harsh, ‘they answered that they did it in order that their children might learn better manners’."

Alison Weir. Wars of the Roses (Kindle Locations 477-480). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

 

Needless to say, parents of medieval England would cringe at how much we expect strangers (i.e., teachers in public schools) to coddle our children... to their benefit or detriment.

[Philokles]

8 hours ago, Traverys said:

You're confusing our modern notion of education with what was the norm for medieval life. It's offensive to our modern sensibilities (similar to emotions evoked by the topics of slavery, women's rights, and aristocracy), but behaving outside of our own personal norm doesn't make her a bad teacher or person. Also, the idea that children were cognitively developing and growing as they aged (rather than just ignorant and in need of vigorous discipline and education) is a modern notion. We know now that a child has to reach a certain age (on average) to have the cognitive faculties to do things like learning to read or basic arithmetic. Thus, medieval parenting and education may seem harsh and unreasonable to us now, but it made sense to people in the past.

The following quote came to mind:

Needless to say, parents of medieval England would cringe at how much we expect strangers (i.e., teachers in public schools) to coddle our children... to their benefit or detriment.

And? You can claim that most medieval teachers were bad, but that doesn't make Septa Mordane good.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

16 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

And? You can claim that most medieval teachers were bad, but that doesn't make Septa Mordane good.

But it doesn't make her bad either. Please get of the moral high horse and check how education was in medieval life (to try and compare it with Westerosi culture).
Bodily punishment and shaming poor students was normal, left-handedness wasn't an excuse for not writing properly with your right hand. Everything that we currently take for granted as being decent education was unknown until the 1800's. Before that, education was pretty much worse then what Septa Mordane gave the Stark children.

[Philokles]

15 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

But it doesn't make her bad either. Please get of the moral high horse and check how education was in medieval life (to try and compare it with Westerosi culture).
Bodily punishment and shaming poor students was normal, left-handedness wasn't an excuse for not writing properly with your right hand. Everything that we currently take for granted as being decent education was unknown until the 1800's. Before that, education was pretty much worse then what Septa Mordane gave the Stark children.

Sorry. I'll make sure that I support the bullying of pupils by their teachers in future.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

Just now, Horse of Kent said:

Sorry. I'll make sure that I support the bullying of pupils by their teachers in future.

That's not what I said. The entire level of education was of a complete different level compared to what we have in todays society.
If you want to compare the qualities of a teacher, you need to compare them to other teachers in that same society and timeframe.

It would be silly to compare a medieval priest who teaches to boys (and who never really had a proper education to teach anybody) to a modern teacher who not only needs to follow 5 years of education to even be eligible to teach, but who continuously needs to be upgrade his skills in order to comply with the increasing demand made by crazy parents who think that a teacher is here to raise their children.

In modern society, bullying teachers are most definitely not acceptable, and if my children were faced with one, I would make a very clear complaint about that to the school board. But just like a modern teacher isn't a medieval teacher, I'm not a medieval lord who would raise my children the way @Traverys describes, because those methods are in todays society not only unacceptable and abusive, but also ridiculous and illegal.