Is R´hllor real god in ASOIAF

[Putin]

I have some strong fealing that R´hllor is real god in ASOIAF universe.I mean everything implies that

- R´hllor god of fire and Great other god of ice.Name of the book series is a song of ice (Great other) and fire (R´hllor).

- dragons (personification of fire ) vs Others (personification of ice)

- Priest of R´hllor have actually show power like  accurate prophercy, reviving dead persons, controling fire and so.

What you think about this.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

I have a hard time seeing any overpowerful real gods in the story. 

I just think the faith of R'Hllor is a religion with some working magic but i don't think it is guided by a god per say.

[hiemal]

21 hours ago, Putin said:

I have some strong fealing that R´hllor is real god in ASOIAF universe.I mean everything implies that

- R´hllor god of fire and Great other god of ice.Name of the book series is a song of ice (Great other) and fire (R´hllor).

- dragons (personification of fire ) vs Others (personification of ice)

- Priest of R´hllor have actually show power like  accurate prophercy, reviving dead persons, controling fire and so.

What you think about this.

I suspect that R'hlorr is the Bloodstone Emperor, who used the Blood Sacrifice to overwrite his personality upon the magical matrix of energies that somehow replaced the world's natural tectonic and volcanic forces in order to achieve immortality and power over dragons.

The Great Other, conversely, could be the one who did the same for the forces of glaciation and the cycle of Ice Ages.

On the Other hand, R'hlorr and the Great Other could be a split personality.

[ftheking]

I don't think he exists in the story or at least there will be no confirmation. The magic is real, but so is Bran's old gods magic or the Faceless Men's magic. Drowned God's magic is not absolutely certain, but it does seem so with Patchface ect. And they all stand for something meaningfull. All men most certainly must die, that seems to be an important part of GRRM's world! Actual god-creatures are not needed behind the magic and the symbolisms.

[Orphalesion]

I will say that among the various gods we meet in the story R'hllor seems like the one who seems the most like he could be real. Not because of fire magic or the resurrections, but because he'd fit the reality of Planetos the most. A pretty sinister, demanding and merciless god-creature that sees humanity as his tools instead of his children or even pets.

If Planetos has a god I would say it'd be a lot like R'hllor.

That being said, I'm certain R'hllor will not appear or otherwise factor into the story in a way that can't be explained as the machinations of a human. GRRM has said that the gods "won't take any more active role in the story than they currently have"

As long as he's more subtle about it all than the HBO series I'm not bothered about the status of the gods  of Planetos and rather not see any of them appear on page.

2 hours ago, hiemal said:

I suspect that R'hlorr is the Bloodstone Emperor, who used the Blood Sacrifice to overwrite his personality upon the magical matrix of energies that somehow replaced the world's natural tectonic and volcanic forces in order to achieve immortality and power over dragons.

No.

[Rain on Wednesday]

In a land that is rife with magic and magical creatures, prophecy and miracles, who is to say that any of the gods are not real? 

They could all just be one god of many faces, or have distinct personalities, but I think what is clear is that if you believe in a god and worship it, in Westeros at least, you'll have some sort of answer to your prayers. 

R'hlorr is just really, really organized and has magic on his side. 

[Dragonsbone]

R'hllor and the great Other are deities of one of the many religions in ASOIAF. The world of ASOIAF just happens to have magic. It does not mean that R'hllor is real and is causing this magic. The world GRRM created is a mirror to our world and as a such, the habitants, who are humans, have created over the time religions to explain things they don't understand.

In contrast to our world, they see unnatural things happening. Dead people comme to life, people can change their faces, shadows kill, trees can see in the future and past, dragons exist, prophecys come true, ice beeings exist and so on and so forth. Depending what they see, similar to us, they create gods and religions whom they think are responsible for it.

GRRM once said in an interview, that he liked the idea of putting religion in a world where real magic actually exists. It is easy to refute a religion in our world where everything can be explained by science. But if you see dead people coming to life, it is very hard to convince someone that R'hllor does not exist. Still that does not mean that he does. As some have pointed out, every religion in the World of ASOIAF is based on magic in this world that actually happens. We saw the magic of R'hlloh working. But we also saw the magic of the old gods, the magic of the drowned god, the magic of the the many faced god, and in some degree of the drownded god. Also the blood magic of the gods in Essos (Miri maz Duur). Are they all real? Unlikely. But we can never now. Just like we don't know if the christians, muslims, jews, budhists, hindus or any of the other religions in our world are true, and if so, which one. 

We will never see if any of the gods in ASOIA are real. That is part of the nature of religion. 

[A man has no name]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 4:28 PM, Orphalesion said:

I will say that among the various gods we meet in the story R'hllor seems like the one who seems the most like he could be real. Not because of fire magic or the resurrections, but because he'd fit the reality of Planetos the most. A pretty sinister, demanding and merciless god-creature that sees humanity as his tools instead of his children or even pets.

If Planetos has a god I would say it'd be a lot like R'hllor.

That being said, I'm certain R'hllor will not appear or otherwise factor into the story in a way that can't be explained as the machinations of a human. GRRM has said that the gods "won't take any more active role in the story than they currently have"

As long as he's more subtle about it all than the HBO series I'm not bothered about the status of the gods  of Planetos and rather not see any of them appear on page.

 

I agree with this. I have always seen R'hillor as the only "god" that had real effect on the world and affect in the people. This one seems to be the only one that has produced any real results within the story. The 7 seems to be a product of the people, and politics--kind of like Astrological signs and tarot cards.

[A man has no name]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:49 PM, Dragonsbone said:

R'hllor and the great Other are deities of one of the many religions in ASOIAF. The world of ASOIAF just happens to have magic. It does not mean that R'hllor is real and is causing this magic. The world GRRM created is a mirror to our world and as a such, the habitants, who are humans, have created over the time religions to explain things they don't understand.

In contrast to our world, they see unnatural things happening. Dead people comme to life, people can change their faces, shadows kill, trees can see in the future and past, dragons exist, prophecys come true, ice beeings exist and so on and so forth. Depending what they see, similar to us, they create gods and religions whom they think are responsible for it.

GRRM once said in an interview, that he liked the idea of putting religion in a world where real magic actually exists. It is easy to refute a religion in our world where everything can be explained by science. But if you see dead people coming to life, it is very hard to convince someone that R'hllor does not exist. Still that does not mean that he does. As some have pointed out, every religion in the World of ASOIAF is based on magic in this world that actually happens. We saw the magic of R'hlloh working. But we also saw the magic of the old gods, the magic of the drowned god, the magic of the the many faced god, and in some degree of the drownded god. Also the blood magic of the gods in Essos (Miri maz Duur). Are they all real? Unlikely. But we can never now. Just like we don't know if the christians, muslims, jews, budhists, hindus or any of the other religions in our world are true, and if so, which one. 

We will never see if any of the gods in ASOIA are real. That is part of the nature of religion. 

Very well said.

[LynnS]

Well, R'hllor might be a dragon worshipped as a god... an old and powerful dragon.  Perhaps the great red temple in Volantis is a dragon pit?

[HaeSuse]

I don't know. But if GRRM does end up personifying, realizing, or truly putting a real face on any of the Gods, I'll be incredibly disappointed. There is already too much going on. Please don't make this some Theistic garbage.

[YOVMO]

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 4:58 PM, Putin said:

I have some strong fealing that R´hllor is real god in ASOIAF universe.I mean everything implies that

- R´hllor god of fire and Great other god of ice.Name of the book series is a song of ice (Great other) and fire (R´hllor).

- dragons (personification of fire ) vs Others (personification of ice)

- Priest of R´hllor have actually show power like  accurate prophercy, reviving dead persons, controling fire and so.

What you think about this.

I would argue that R'hllor, like all the gods, are both real and not real. I think that they are the ways that human's interpret things that they don't really understand. Is there some kind of fire force in the universe? Of course there is. It would be clown shoes crazy to deny it. But is that power an anthropomorphic deity? I feel that it is more likely that that is just a tradition which has been passed on by people in an attempt to understand what is going on....no different than the 7 or the old gods. Like Robert Heinlein says through Lazarus Long in Time Enough For Love, 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh'

There are forces at work in the world and there are people with a need to have them explained in a way they can understand. Is there some being R'Hllor? I doubt it. Is there some power that the holy r'hllors have named such in an attempt to explain phenomena that doesn't fit into their understanding of the world? Of course....no different from the fact that there is some kind of universal notion of Mother or Smith or Warrior......or Death......but to imagine a 7 seated table with them all sitting down and discussing quiddich is a little too primitive for our story me thinks.

[weirwoodface]

I think all of the gods in the asoiaf universe are real. That doesn't mean I think that they are actively intervening in the events happening in the book.

Magic is a real, natural phenomena in this universe and the religion of the Red God has grown up around the sorcery of fire, shadow, human sacrifice, etc. The worship of the Old Gods in Westeros thrived on blood sacrifice as well.

 

[Renly's Banana]

On 4/21/2017 at 4:58 PM, Putin said:

- Priest of R´hllor have actually show power like  accurate prophercy, reviving dead persons, controling fire and so.

Jojen, Quaithe, Maggy the Frog and the Ghost of High Heart have all shown accurate prophecies, and none of them are tied to R'hllor. Melisandre's shadow baby, Quaithe's glass candle apparitions, Mirri's blood magic and Bran's warging are also all acts of real magic not tied to R'hllor. I'm skeptical of pyromancers "controlling fire", because the books hint that almost all cases of pyromancy are just tricks. 
So there IS real magic out there that's unrelated to the red priests. 

Personally, I don't think R'hllor exists. I don't think any of their gods "exist" in any real sense. What I think is happening is they're tapping a form of magic. Fire magic, just like blood magic or "weirwood magic", and they built a religion around it. You don't look at the Faceless Men and say, "oh, I guess their god of death is real cause he lets them change their faces" -- no, they built a religion around the tricks they learned. 
I don't think any red priest can truly explain where their powers come from, so it must be R'hllor. It's easier to explain if a god is behind it. 

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, HaeSuse said:

I don't know. But if GRRM does end up personifying, realizing, or truly putting a real face on any of the Gods, I'll be incredibly disappointed. There is already too much going on. Please don't make this some Theistic garbage.

To whom are you addressing this comment?  What do you mean Theistic garbage?

You are aware that the Valyrians once worshipped dragons as gods.  They are magical creatures, so why not?  Belarion, Meraxes and Vhagar are all named for the gods of Valyrian Freehold.   I think it's entirely possible that one of the old gods still lives.  Melisandre is adamant the R'hllor exists and is male.  It wouldn't surprise me if R'hllor is one of the dragons mentioned by Moqorro: "dragons old and young (or newly hatched)" or that he would be the center of religious fantaticism if he could be chained in a dragon pit.

R'hllor might even the be the dragon of Dany's wake the dragon dreams surrounded by pillars of flame. The one who sings to her, give her immunity from fire; transforms her into a dragon in her dreams.  The one who chooses her to be the mother of dragons.  R'hllor might the last mount that Dany must ride... the flaming red sword.

 

 

 

 

[Wolf's Bane]

R'hllor is as real as the other gods in the novel.  A super powerful being named R'hllor exist and its followers think of it as a god.  But this being is not what we think of as a god.  R is not a god in the sense that it created the world and the heavens.  But it is sufficiently powerful that people think its a god.

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, Steelshanks Walton said:

R'hllor is as real as the other gods in the novel.  A super powerful being named R'hllor exist and its followers think of it as a god.  But this being is not what we think of as a god.  R is not a god in the sense that it created the world and the heavens.  But it is sufficiently powerful that people think its a god.

Yes, exactly.

[HaeSuse]

20 hours ago, LynnS said:

To whom are you addressing this comment?  

I am answering the question in the title of the OP. I did not quote anyone, nor name anyone. So I thought it was obvious. Unless my browser is failing me, the question posed was: " Is R´hllor real god in ASOIAF "

 

And I said "I don't know."

 

 

20 hours ago, LynnS said:

 What do you mean Theistic garbage?

 

There are too many things going on in the books. I for one think Dany shouldn't even be involved. Kill her off pre-book, eliminate all of her chapters, and I think the books go up in readability and enjoyment. I've said that here several times in other threads. We have no need at all for Essos. I also don't like the zombies. UnCat. UnBeric. UnGregor. Zombie deus-ex-machina crap. I am now also saying that I hope beyond hope that GRRM does not actually bring life to Rhllor. I don't want to see him. I don't want him to be "real". There is too much shit already. Bringing personified, real, GODS into the plot, at this point, would be even more crap.

 

That's what I mean. I don't want Gods to play any more role than they already have played.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

GRRM may be an atheist IRL, but I think that here, in these novels of his, he'll go the agnostic route. Which is: we'll never find out for sure, and both "yes" and "no" will have some evidence to support them.

I think it's the best one, when it's darn difficult to write an encounter with a god that isn't a huge disappointment (unless you go for comedy and have Sir Pterry's skill to pull it off) on one hand, and on another - to expose it all as just plain bullshit sounds a little anticlimactic and underwhelming, too.

[weirwoodface]

2 hours ago, HaeSuse said:

I for one think Dany shouldn't even be involved. Kill her off pre-book, eliminate all of her chapters, and I think the books go up in readability and enjoyment. I've said that here several times in other threads. We have no need at all for Essos. I also don't like the zombies. UnCat. UnBeric. UnGregor. Zombie deus-ex-machina crap.

Basically, you're saying that you don't like these books. At all.