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Theon, Archery and Redemption?


House Beaudreau

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During my current re-read of ASOS there was a Jon Chapter that got me thinking about Theon. I will summarize here, this was during a chapter after he escaped the wildlings and is preparing for the attack on Castle Back. He is thinking in general about bows and arrows and archery. He mentions how he was never the Hunter that Theon was, and that Theon said something back in the day about "wolves can keep their fangs, bears can keep their claws because goose feather are the most deadly of them all" Theon was of course referring to how good he is with a bow. We get to see Theon's archery skills in action when he saves Bran from the wildlings.  Also Jon mentions Theon when hes thinking about Archery and hunting, not Jory Cassel, or Rodrick, or Ned, or Harwin or anyone else that he grew up with, he mentions Theon which mean he was probably the best with a bow at Winterfell. 

My point is that Theon was/is clearly a very gifted archer, hes probably not as good as Fletcher Dick or even Anguy but maybe he is?. So I'm wondering now that Theon has rediscover himself and he's done being Reek and once more of his strength returns could he pull a bow and return to some of his original martial prowess? I know on the Asoiaf wiki it says he can no longer use a bow but if I remember right he has lost his pinky and ring finger on his right hand and just his pinky on the left, So I think he could still string a arrow and pull it back if he had to or when his strength returns?

I have this picture in my head of Theon standing alone in the snow with a bow and Ramsey charging on him with his hounds and Theon takes them down one by one until he finally puts one right through Ramsey's throat or heart? or that he goes North of the Wall and takes down a bunch of Others with dragonglass arrows, or puts a Valyrian arrow head through the eye of Drogon and brings down the Dragon and Dany? any thoughts?

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29 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

I wonder if Theon is Martin's Gollum?

I've always thought so, too. I hesitate because it seems like such an obvious parallel, but then I don't quite expect Theon to gnaw a finger off Bran to hold the power of the Great Other for one joyous moment before falling into the Cracks of Doom and taking the Long Night with him, so yes. :)

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9 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

I wonder if Theon is Martin's Gollum?

He is clearly not, as already disclosed in DwD. He is Theon again, thriumphing over torture and dehumanisation. An inspiring story.

Yes OP, I noticed Jon's musings and I do think Theon's achery will play an important role. More than oppositte Ramsay I see Theon standing in the snow pointing dragonglass arrows at Others.I don't know how he is placed among the best archers in the history of Westeros, but I'm sure he is the most important archer we have in ASoIaF. 

As for his fingers, either they suffice or he'll just have to grow new ones. Nuncle Victarion has a new hand, so there don't seem to be many limits to magic anymore.

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10 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

or puts a Valyrian arrow head through the eye of Drogon and brings down the Dragon and Dany? any thoughts?

Not necessarely Drogon, but perhaps one dragon stolen by Euron, and to (re)play the Grey King killing "Nagga" the sea-dragon, and/or the Drowned god vainquishing the Storm god

Against the archery ability, there are Theon's mutilations : I'm not sure he can keep an arrow yet when some fingers are missing. Same with toes : toes are very important for equilibrium. 

Theon's skills could also prepare other "revelations" about archers of the present or of the past; sure, GRRM doesn't note them just for fun, but there are many possibilities, indeed. Sarella and Anguy have also to be noticed as exceptionnal archers, for example. And perhaps Sam at the end. 

So wait and see ^^

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10 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

During my current re-read of ASOS there was a Jon Chapter that got me thinking about Theon. I will summarize here, this was during a chapter after he escaped the wildlings and is preparing for the attack on Castle Back. He is thinking in general about bows and arrows and archery. He mentions how he was never the Hunter that Theon was, and that Theon said something back in the day about "wolves can keep their fangs, bears can keep their claws because goose feather are the most deadly of them all" Theon was of course referring to how good he is with a bow. We get to see Theon's archery skills in action when he saves Bran from the wildlings.  Also Jon mentions Theon when hes thinking about Archery and hunting, not Jory Cassel, or Rodrick, or Ned, or Harwin or anyone else that he grew up with, he mentions Theon which mean he was probably the best with a bow at Winterfell. 

My point is that Theon was/is clearly a very gifted archer, hes probably not as good as Fletcher Dick or even Anguy but maybe he is?. So I'm wondering now that Theon has rediscover himself and he's done being Reek and once more of his strength returns could he pull a bow and return to some of his original martial prowess? I know on the Asoiaf wiki it says he can no longer use a bow but if I remember right he has lost his pinky and ring finger on his right hand and just his pinky on the left, So I think he could still string a arrow and pull it back if he had to or when his strength returns?

I have wondered the same for a while.

But I don't think that he will be of use on the Battle of Winterfell. Too soon.

Anyway, I'd add something that really bothers me: the persistent memory of his horse, Smiler, with the mane ablaze as he got knocked by Ramsey during the sack of Winterfell.

It has a clear connection with Ryswell coat-of-arms and then, two books later, we have Barbrey Dustin (born Ryswell) talking to Theon with weird intimacy.

Thoughts?

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I do not know if this could happen. Although it is legend, one theory for the origin of the "V" sign made with your index and middle finger is that it was thrown as an insult by all of the archers at the battle of agincourt. Because they had been led to believe they would lose those fingers if they lost the battle (and never be able to draw a bow again). I'm not an archer myself, but I do believe those two fingers are crucial.

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Maybe "V" for victory or Henry The Fifth?!

You could probably use different fingers, says I, who was talking to an OT yesterday! A lot of it is in the aiming, and using the right amount of arc and strength, accounting for things like wind, says I, who used a bow when a kid. I am an an unreliable narrator with these issues, though.:)

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1 hour ago, The Bastards Giant Friend said:

I do not know if this could happen. Although it is legend, one theory for the origin of the "V" sign made with your index and middle finger is that it was thrown as an insult by all of the archers at the battle of agincourt. Because they had been led to believe they would lose those fingers if they lost the battle (and never be able to draw a bow again). I'm not an archer myself, but I do believe those two fingers are crucial.

But he has those on both hands, right?

6 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

He could be a Gollum character, with a twist...he breaks good.

Yeah, he is breaking good, but he is also becoming himself, putting great importance on his birthname and probably being more himself than before Reek, as he was somewhat of a fake and pretender - "the Prince of Winterfell". He is the anti-Gollum.

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1 hour ago, HoodedCrow said:

If someone gets a chance to ask GRRM a question, please ask him if Theon is the anti-Gollum, and if you can get his reaction on video, well, amazeballs!

Tolkien wrote gollum with definite hints of Arthur Daynes character.

 

6 hours ago, ftheking said:

But he has those on both hands, right?

I honestly have my books in storage right now, so I cannot say what fingers are left. If the OP is right, then maybe it is possible? Would be a nice tie-in to Jon's thoughts.

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I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a passing line in ADWD where he thinks to himself that Ramsay (by cutting his fingers) has taken away his skill with a bow. So I don't know how bright his archery future is lookin'. 

That being said, the Night's Watch could always use more crappy archers <=)

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An interesting thought, especially in connection with the weirwood arrows shown in Bran's vision. This page  claims that some people can draw a bow with only their middle and index finger, so perhaps modification for middle and ring finger might be possible? If I understand this correctly, it is about strength which you are able to put in the pull. Perhaps, it would be sufficient for Theon to manage a single shot?

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6 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a passing line in ADWD where he thinks to himself that Ramsay (by cutting his fingers) has taken away his skill with a bow. So I don't know how bright his archery future is lookin'.

Yes, Reek is not going to think "At least I always rock at archery, no matter how many fingers he cut off. I'm sure I have a bright heroic future in front of me as soon as I get rid of this annoying little Ramsay problem" He obviously needs to get there somehow and surprise himself. He doesn't even know he's fictional.

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I think Reek/Theon will have a very difficult and damaged future, no matter what. He has descended to rock bottom. What would be an ultra interesting character would be a redemption and survival, especially since his horrendous screw ups were not coming from as malign a place as Ramsey's for example. He had a a Gollum like split in identity after crises and torture.

He has a chance at developing into a mature and better man in spirit, and has already rescued Jayne, with help. He has skills shown in his audacious but ultimately doomed capture of  Winterfell, and his first rescue of Bran. He still has some lasting effects also from being Ned's son, and part of the Stark family.

It could be noted that he is the one person that Bran actually spoke to through the weirwood, other than ( someone) so there may be a link for the future. 

He has it in him to do some heroic deeds, with battle strategy, and possibly using his bow. 

GRRM spent a lot of time on his character descent. Now George may still do a Bambi stomp or sacrifice him. Theon still an heir to the Ironborn, although he could support Asha. It seems possible that after all his suffering, it would be more interesting to make him(instead of Gollum who succumbs to an irresistible evil force) survive and break good, perhaps redeeming himself by heroic or sacrificial deeds, saving Winterfell, or influencing the fate of the Ironborn or having an important role in battle of the dawn. His deeds would be even more amazing, given the depths of his fall, his guilt and handicaps. The question is: Why did Martin spend so much time on him? I suppose he could have been merely POV, but I would be disappointed if there is no fitting end for this character.

who is more interesting? Arthur Dayne as the superhero white knight who follows orders and dies futilely, or Theon, the ultra messed up broken fellow who may have grown enough to make partial amends?

The idea of Theon using a bow in a heroic event seems possible to me!

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