Jump to content

Why did the loyalists yield when Rhegar died?


Stormking902

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Meh you can't really count Tywin and the Westerlands at that point. He might have made up his mind on how to align himself but no one else knew, especially the men from the Trident. Your other points are spot on though.

 

That's something I never really considered. Ned described Rob as what, a veritable giant, with his armor and helm on? Finding his banner and household on the field or Rhaegar's would be easier. I'd just be of the thought that it would be hard for Robert to actually get *at* Rhaegar. When I look at other prominent battles where a king (or prince) was in the front lines like Crecy, Agincourt, or Poitiers, so many people were trying to get to the king/prince to get the ransom the other leaders were nowhere near them. Duke of Alencon and Blind Jon got nowhere near the Black Prince. Henry the V got hit in the head with an axe but likewise no prominent enemies were near him as far as I can remember. King John surrendered to a fairly obscure knight after his forces routed from the rear attack. 

Armies do not appear out of thin air. It take ages to mobilize the troops especially in the unsophisticated medieval setup were the road infrastructure was very primitive and the King (ie warden) would rely on third persons (ie bannermen) to provide him with men. Both Rebel and loyalists probably knew that Tywin was mobilizing his armies and the fact that he didn’t marched his army to join Rhaegar or Robert’s army before the battle or assault Robert’s wounded army soon afterwards meant one thing. Tywin was waiting for the result and was planning to appease the victor soon afterwards.


Now there were many types of loyalists in Rhaegar’s camp. There where the army from Dorne which formed around ¼ of Rhaegar’s army and they took a massive hit in terms of morale when Lewyn Martell died. There were the Rhaegar loyalists whom similarly to the Martell forces, took a big hit in terms of morale once the crown prince died. There were Aerys loyalists who were terrified of having to give their king the news of his son’s death and then there were soldiers of various lords etc.
 All of which were receiving news that the Freys had joined Robert’s army and that Tywin’s army was moving towards KL (which I presume it was through the Reach and then the crownlands). That must have panicked many people who lived in those areas and had left their loved ones behind. Tywin wasn’t the nicest person on earth and if he decided to pillage and burn everything in front of him there would be barely anyone able to stop him. These people were itching to return home. 


The icing of the cake came from Robert. Throughout the entire war, Robert had been gracious towards his enemies once they bend their knee. He enforced this policy by sending his own maester to Selmy. The latter wasn’t only Rhaegar’s closest ally and Aerys savior at Duskendale but also a living legend. If by bending the knee meant retaining their lands and titles and return home to mount some sort of defence against Tywin’s advance then so be it. It’s certainly a better option then fighting for a king who couldn’t even bother lead his armies himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, devilish said:

Armies do not appear out of thin air. It take ages to mobilize the troops especially in the unsophisticated medieval setup were the road infrastructure was very primitive and the King (ie warden) would rely on third persons (ie bannermen) to provide him with men. Both Rebel and loyalists probably knew that Tywin was mobilizing his armies and the fact that he didn’t marched his army to join Rhaegar or Robert’s army before the battle or assault Robert’s wounded army soon afterwards meant one thing. Tywin was waiting for the result and was planning to appease the victor soon afterwards.


Now there were many types of loyalists in Rhaegar’s camp. There where the army from Dorne which formed around ¼ of Rhaegar’s army and they took a massive hit in terms of morale when Lewyn Martell died. There were the Rhaegar loyalists whom similarly to the Martell forces, took a big hit in terms of morale once the crown prince died. There were Aerys loyalists who were terrified of having to give their king the news of his son’s death and then there were soldiers of various lords etc.
 All of which were receiving news that the Freys had joined Robert’s army and that Tywin’s army was moving towards KL (which I presume it was through the Reach and then the crownlands). That must have panicked many people who lived in those areas and had left their loved ones behind. Tywin wasn’t the nicest person on earth and if he decided to pillage and burn everything in front of him there would be barely anyone able to stop him. These people were itching to return home. 


The icing of the cake came from Robert. Throughout the entire war, Robert had been gracious towards his enemies once they bend their knee. He enforced this policy by sending his own maester to Selmy. The latter wasn’t only Rhaegar’s closest ally and Aerys savior at Duskendale but also a living legend. If by bending the knee meant retaining their lands and titles and return home to mount some sort of defence against Tywin’s advance then so be it. It’s certainly a better option then fighting for a king who couldn’t even bother lead his armies himself.

You're absolutely right. Tywin probably took months summoning, arraying and marching his men to KL. He was clearly waiting out his options but that doesn't mean he was absolutely going to join the victor. Medieval communication was poor and slow, even with ravens in ASOIAF. I don't believe the rebels even knew Tywin was was marching on KL until they got there and saw the sack. Looking at it in hindsight gives us a lot of leeway to assume things. No one knew if the Trident was going to be the decisive battle. A dozen things could have happened, and Tywin could have pulled a Ramsay and pretended to join up with either side and hit them in the rear during the battle -- something that will likely happen to the Freys/Boltons with the Manderlys. 

I have zero questions about what happened with the loyalists. We have an eyewitness account. They broke and fled once Rhaegar died, and at that point they were leaderless and trying to survive. It took to KG knights to rally JonCon's men, who retreated in good order (according to JonCon). If we look at the loyalist leaders who'd died, exiled, or were prisoners at that point -- Rhaegar, JonCon, Myles Mooton, 3 bannermen killed by Jason Mallister, Martell, Dorry, Barristan -- there weren't a lot of options left to act with the kings authority, and I suspect many of those who could have just fled for home like you put out. With bands of disorganized men running around, they had no need to yield. The common men would just try to get home and the lords would either be yielding on the battlefield or going home and sitting out the rest of the war.

As to Tywin, I'm sure his army wasn't exactly peaceful as can be, but running a chevauchee through the RL, crownlands, and reach would be tipping his hand. Robert's generosity was great but he wasn't going to release prisoners unless they were paying him or swore to join his army, like Cafferen and the like. Realistically I doubt any of the prisoners were going anywhere until after he was crowned king. He'd already decided around that time to make his claim, so letting valuable lords and knights go without swearing loyalty and homage (and yes rewarding) them just isn't going to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...