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U.S. Politics: From Russia, With Love


TerraPrime

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1 hour ago, Altherion said:

Given that Russian intelligence (including its predecessor agencies from the USSR) has a long and storied rivalry with Western intelligence, this is certainly possible. However, it is difficult to be confident in such an assertion for three reasons.

First, the truly successful hacker is one that acquires information without its owners ever noticed that he was there. It's entirely possible that since our intelligence is specifically focused on Russia (including even the conversion of moles if the stories about the above rivalry is to be believed), we've noticed more of their activity than that from other places.

It isn't just our intelligence, however. That's sort of the point. The US government is one agency that deals with these hacks - there are many others. And they all deal with the Russians. They do occasionally deal with Chinese hackers, but it's not nearly as common as the Russians.

And this isn't some conjecture; this is documented again and again. 

Now, you're right that the 'truly successful hacker' gets in and gets out, but unless China has cyber capabilities that are completely outside of what anyone understands them to be, that isn't the case. We already have documentation on what China has done. And it's not in the same ballpark as what Russia is doing. 

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

Second, competent hackers impersonate others to avoid detection. We know that, for example, the CIA had an operation impersonating Russian hackers. It is entirely possible than others do it too as Russian tools are widespread and Russians always make a plausible scapegoat when going after Western targets.

Again, it's certainly possible but highly unlikely. If they're impersonating the hackers they're impersonating them by doing it from the same locations, using the same tools and going after the same kinds of targets. Furthermore, they're doing it secretly and the information is still being kept under wraps. 

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

Third, disclosures regarding Russia currently make better propaganda than those regarding any other country. There are groups which stand to gain from revelations of Russian hacking and other groups which stand to gain from casting doubt on those revelations (e.g. the data dump in the article I linked above). Disclosures regarding other nations are not in the interest of either those nations (who don't want a spotlight on their activities) or of our intelligence agencies (who don't need to start another public fight right now).

As I said above, these are things that haven't been disclosed, and aren't being disclosed, and it has nothing to do with two nations fighting at all. The reason that corporations aren't disclosing these things is because if people knew how bad it was, those corporations would lose massive stock overnight. 

Really, the people who know this stuff - the security professionals from various internet companies and intel agencies - are laughing at this kind of bullshit doublethink. The Russians don't care whether or not you know it's them, because all they care about is being able to not be directly caught. They know that the US knows who they are. They know that the US has a crazy amount of counterintel, as does MS, Google, etc. They don't care, because all they care about is getting the intel they need and/or being able to add influence as they need.

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6 hours ago, Swordfish said:

I have no respect for Trump.  I just find armchair medical diagnosis to be a sort of  lowest common denominator type of criticism often coming mostly from a  wishful thinking place.  And I think that sort of wishful thinking, even implicit and against Trump, is to me, distasteful.

YMMV, naturally.

99% of the time, yes. But in this specific case, where the man is both in the position to ruin millions of lives and do irreparable harm, and blatantly misrepresented his health before getting said position, I can make an exception.

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More about Trump and the Great Trade War Against Canada, Making America Great Again!

As mentioned, Trump slapped tariffs up to 24% on Canadian lumber yesterday. The tariffs average 20%.

Now he's tweeted, Wait until tomorrow. He's going to hit the Canadian dairy industry. Canada imports more dairy from the US than it exports to the US. I have never seen a trade war before where the country being hit imports more than the country hitting it with sanctions.

You have to understand that Canadian and US trade is basically balanced. Canada, historically, was the US's biggest trading partner, only surpassed by China fairly recently (imagine, a country with more than a billion people finally surpassing Canada, a country of 35 million). The small balance in Canada's favor is due to energy exports...and Trump said he's going to hit energy after dairy.

The title of this thread needs to be changed to Blame Canada.

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On a happier note, even though Canada has won their complaints about softwood lumber against the US EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, and the US has ignored the WTO EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, in the last ten years fed-up lumber companies have turned to China, and our sales to China have gone up from $1B to $5B, a 500% increase. And most Canadian lumber companies have divisions in the US (gee whiz, employing Americans!) so increased prices will improve profits and the shareholders in Canada thank you American suckers for paying $3,000 more for new houses!

Wait until tariffs go on Canadian oil! You buy 25% of your oil from us! 

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56 minutes ago, S John said:

October 2016: we are gonna build a wall and Mexico will pay for it!

January 2017: I'm gonna need some funding for the wall

April 2017: eh, maybe next year

"Who knew that building a wall could be so hard?"

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12 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said:

"Who knew that building a wall could be so hard?"

From recent AP interview...

AP: Obviously, that's going to come in a week where you're going to be running up against the deadline for keeping the government open. If you get a bill on your desk that does not include funding for the wall, will you sign it?

TRUMP: I don't know yet. People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it — you've been to many of the rallies. OK, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it's funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the electoral college. Big, big, big advantage. I've always said the popular vote would be a lot easier than the electoral college. The electoral college — but it's a whole different campaign (unintelligible). The electoral college is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall, they want to see security. Now, it just came out that they're 73 percent down. ... That's a tremendous achievement. ... Look at this, in 100 days, that down to the lowest in 17 years and it's going lower. Now, people aren't coming because they know they're not going to get through, and there isn't crime. You know the migration up to the border is horrible for women, you know that? (Unintelligible.) Now, much of that's stopped because they can't get through.

AP: You think $10 billion or less.

TRUMP: I think $10 billion or less. And if I do a super-duper, higher, better, better security, everything else, maybe it goes a little bit more. But it's not going to be anywhere near (those) kind of numbers. And they're using those numbers; they're using the high numbers to make it sound impalatable (sic). And the fact it's going to cost much less money, just like the airplane I told you about, which I hope you can write about.

 

 

We're not just talking about a wall here. We're talking about a super-duper, higher, better, better security, everything else wall. And it mows the lawn, picks the kids up from school, gets rid of unwanted facial hair, and gets rid of embarrassing age spots. If not completely satisfied mail back unused portion of product for complete refund of price of purchase. Step right up.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

From recent AP interview...

AP: Obviously, that's going to come in a week where you're going to be running up against the deadline for keeping the government open. If you get a bill on your desk that does not include funding for the wall, will you sign it?

TRUMP: I don't know yet. People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it — you've been to many of the rallies. OK, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it's funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the electoral college. Big, big, big advantage. I've always said the popular vote would be a lot easier than the electoral college. The electoral college — but it's a whole different campaign (unintelligible). The electoral college is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall, they want to see security. Now, it just came out that they're 73 percent down. ... That's a tremendous achievement. ... Look at this, in 100 days, that down to the lowest in 17 years and it's going lower. Now, people aren't coming because they know they're not going to get through, and there isn't crime. You know the migration up to the border is horrible for women, you know that? (Unintelligible.) Now, much of that's stopped because they can't get through.

AP: You think $10 billion or less.

TRUMP: I think $10 billion or less. And if I do a super-duper, higher, better, better security, everything else, maybe it goes a little bit more. But it's not going to be anywhere near (those) kind of numbers. And they're using those numbers; they're using the high numbers to make it sound impalatable (sic). And the fact it's going to cost much less money, just like the airplane I told you about, which I hope you can write about.

 

 

We're not just talking about a wall here. We're talking about a super-duper, higher, better, better security, everything else wall. And it mows the lawn, picks the kids up from school, gets rid of unwanted facial hair, and gets rid of embarrassing age spots. If not completely satisfied mail back unused portion of product for complete refund of price of purchase. Step right up.

 

 

Idk if it qualifies as a mental health issue, but that man is truly unfit for office.

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1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

From recent AP interview...

AP: Obviously, that's going to come in a week where you're going to be running up against the deadline for keeping the government open. If you get a bill on your desk that does not include funding for the wall, will you sign it?

TRUMP: I don't know yet. People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it — you've been to many of the rallies. OK, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it's funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the electoral college. Big, big, big advantage. I've always said the popular vote would be a lot easier than the electoral college. The electoral college — but it's a whole different campaign (unintelligible). The electoral college is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall, they want to see security. Now, it just came out that they're 73 percent down. ... That's a tremendous achievement. ... Look at this, in 100 days, that down to the lowest in 17 years and it's going lower. Now, people aren't coming because they know they're not going to get through, and there isn't crime. You know the migration up to the border is horrible for women, you know that? (Unintelligible.) Now, much of that's stopped because they can't get through.

 

 

Honestly, does anyone know what the hell this man is talking about?  I can barely follow along.  This last year of politics has seriously damaged my opinion of the American people and put a dent in whatever residual pride I had in me as a natural born American citizen.  I made it through the Bush years, but the level of discourse is so much dumber and more hateful now that I don't think the flag-waving American inside of me is going to survive it this time.  It's too embarrassing, and there just isn't a good excuse for why its come to this.  

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15 minutes ago, S John said:

  I made it through the Bush years, but the level of discourse is so much dumber and more hateful now that I don't think the flag-waving American inside of me is going to survive it this time.  It's too embarrassing, and there just isn't a good excuse for why its come to this.  

For as clueless as he was, for as many evil asshats he surrounded himself with (Cheney), GWB acted somewhat like a human being with a few ounces of compassion.

Trump, on the other hand, is simply a greedy, mean-spirited, and possibly demented asshole. He has not a shred of compassion in him, which has been evident for 30+ years.  He's a low-life grifter.

How will the damage he is inflicting be halted and ultimately reversed?  That's the big question.

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New book coming out about the Clinton campaign....

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

Quote

What Allen and Parnes captured in Shattered was a far more revealing portrait of the Democratic Party intelligentsia than, say, the WikiLeaks dumps. And while the book is profoundly unflattering to Hillary Clinton, the problem it describes really has nothing to do with Secretary Clinton.

The real protagonist of this book is a Washington political establishment that has lost the ability to explain itself or its motives to people outside the Beltway

 

Quote

In the Clinton run, that problem became such a millstone around the neck of the campaign that staffers began to flirt with the idea of sharing the uninspiring truth with voters. Stumped for months by how to explain why their candidate wanted to be president, Clinton staffers began toying with the idea of seeing how "Because it's her turn" might fly as a public rallying cry.

I know, I know...  but the Russians!! But racism!!!

 

Quote

This traced back to 2008, a failed run that the Clintons had concluded was due to the disloyalty and treachery of staff and other Democrats. After that race, Hillary had aides create "loyalty scores" (from one for most loyal, to seven for most treacherous) for members of Congress. Bill Clinton since 2008 had "campaigned against some of the sevens" to "help knock them out of office," apparently to purify the Dem ranks heading into 2016.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

New book coming out about the Clinton campaign....

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

 

I know, I know...  but the Russians!! But racism!!!

 

 

 

Also Sexism and that was acknowledged by a prior poster who stated Liberals need a reality check. (paraphrase)

Once Republican decided to cast their die with the election (SC and Tax Cuts)  anything and nothing could of had a effect. Arrogance of a campagin still cannot totally rule out foreign interference. 

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4 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Also Sexism and that was acknowledged by a prior poster who stated Liberals need a reality check. (paraphrase)

Once Republican decided to cast their die with the election (SC and Tax Cuts)  anything and nothing could of had a effect. Arrogance of a campagin still cannot totally rule out foreign interference. 

Missing the point, like, entirely.

Quote

Shattered is what happens when political parties become too disconnected from their voters. Even if you think the election was stolen, any Democrat who reads this book will come away believing he or she belongs to a party stuck in a profound identity crisis. Trump or no Trump, the Democrats need therapy – and soon.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Swordfish said:

New book coming out about the Clinton campaign....

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-on-the-new-book-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978

 

I know, I know...  but the Russians!! But racism!!!

If 80,000 voters from 3 states voted differently, then the book wouldn't be an evisceration of Clinton's campaign but would be a book about how Clinton overcame all the forces against her (Comey, foreign hacking, foreign disinformation, excessive media coverage of emails, sexism, etc). Perspective changes on such thin margins makes me not care about books like these. 

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