Yuzzybus Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just starting to reread the series again. Something in the GOT prologue does not make sense to me. Ser Waymar Royce, Gared, and Will have been tracking wildling raiders north of the wall for nine days. Quote "Nine days they had been riding, north and northwest and then north again, farther and farther from the Wall, hard on the track of a band of wildling raiders. Each day had been worse than the day that had come before it. Today was the worst of all. A cold wind was blowing out of the north" Quote "We should start back...We have a long ride before us," Gared pointed out. "Eight days, maybe nine. And night is falling." Later Ser Waymer questions Will regarding the weather during the past week in order to prove that the wildlings could not have frozen to death. Quote "Have you drawn any watches this past week, Will?" "Yes, m'lord." There never was a week when he did not draw a dozen bloody watches. What was the man driving at? "And how did you find the Wall?" "Weeping," Will said, frowning. He saw it clear enough, now that the lordling had pointed it out. "They couldn't have froze. Not if the Wall was weeping. It wasn't cold enough." If Will has been ranging north of the wall for nine days, how could he have drawn any watches at the wall this past week to observed that it was weeping? Been struggling to come up with possible explanations. 1. Ser Waymar is referring to Will's watches on this ranging not at the wall. But- Are wall conditions visible several days ride north of the wall? Three men on a ranging would surly all take turns at the at the watches and Royce would not have to ask if Will drew any watches. 2. Ser Waymar means the week before last, prior to the ranging. 3. It is a mistake. Anyone else have a better idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Possibly 3 if I'm honest, but i just apply 2 to compensate. I don't think you should ponder it too long really. Not when the Prologue is full of so much better stuff. Count how many times Waymars Sable cloak is mentioned and how he stands out as a Lordly looking Commander and leader to the other two. Check how the Others start to shadow their movements, and when they engage check exactly how the lead Other behaves and what he is looking for and what he is wary about, then check the "signal" the back up Others are waiting for to move in. Also, pay attention to Waymars actual physical description in regards to his eyes and his physical build and try to remember who else is described this way. These things are more rewarding than GRRMS possible sloppiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuzzybus Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 Good point Macgrgor of the North. GRRM's writing is awesome and holds together quite well. Even the part I was nitpcking helps to set the atmosphere and gives information about the characters, the night's watch and the wall. GRRM could have just had Ser Waymer say "It has not been cold enough Will," instead he has Ser Waymar use the Socratic method to help Will realize this fact for himself. Really a smart strategy to make Will to side with himself against Gared. My opinion of Ser Waymar has improved over time. The first time it is hard not to see him through Will and Gared's eyes and find him arrogant and foolish for not deferring to their experience. He really is very intelligent and determined to do his job well. If anything, the night's watch did him a disservice by putting him in command so soon. It would not be easy to lead more experienced rangers who have laughed at him in their cups. He demonstrates leadership qualities that allow him to stay in command despite this. He is very like Jon Snow. Makes sense since House Stark and House Royce have intermarried in the past. That sable cloak does get mentioned quite a bit. I count 7 mentions. Quote His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin. "Bet he killed them all himself, he did,"Gared told the barracks over wine, "twisted their little heads off, our mighty warrior." Gared mocked the cloak and owner out of envy. Quote "You have a chill?"Royce asked. "Some," Will muttered. "The wind, m'lord." ... He adjusted the drape of his long sable cloak. ... "You ought dress more warmly, Gared." ... "We'll see how warm you can dress when winter come." The cloak keeps Ser Waymar warm longer than his companions and less aware of the approaching danger. He seems to take his advantage for granted and perhaps it dulls his survival instincts. Quote A cold wind whispered through the trees. His great sable cloak stirred behind like something half-alive. Foreshadowing of Ser Waymar's becoming a wight? Quote Behind him, [Will] heard the soft metallic slither of the lordling's ringmail, the rustle of leaves, and muttered curse as reaching branches grabbed at his longsword and tugged on his sable cloak. Not well suited suited for the environment. Quote He stood there beside the sentinel, longsword in hand, his cloak billowing behind him as the wind came up, outlined nobly against the stars for all to see. Not stealthy but it is his glory. His moment of triumph and being justified for wanting to investigate further. Quote He threw the sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. Quote The thick sable cloak had been slashed in a dozen pieces The Other pays attention to Ser Waymar's raised sword possibly trying to determine it is Valyrian steel or Lightbringer. The rest of the Others only finish the job when Waymar's sword has shattered. They must have been relieved. No wonder they laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Yuzzybus said: Good point Macgrgor of the North. GRRM's writing is awesome and holds together quite well. Even the part I was nitpcking helps to set the atmosphere and gives information about the characters, the night's watch and the wall. GRRM could have just had Ser Waymer say "It has not been cold enough Will," instead he has Ser Waymar use the Socratic method to help Will realize this fact for himself. Really a smart strategy to make Will to side with himself against Gared. My opinion of Ser Waymar has improved over time. The first time it is hard not to see him through Will and Gared's eyes and find him arrogant and foolish for not deferring to their experience. He really is very intelligent and determined to do his job well. If anything, the night's watch did him a disservice by putting him in command so soon. It would not be easy to lead more experienced rangers who have laughed at him in their cups. He demonstrates leadership qualities that allow him to stay in command despite this. He is very like Jon Snow. Makes sense since House Stark and House Royce have intermarried in the past. That sable cloak does get mentioned quite a bit. I count 7 mentions. Gared mocked the cloak and owner out of envy. The cloak keeps Ser Waymar warm longer than his companions and less aware of the approaching danger. He seems to take his advantage for granted and perhaps it dulls his survival instincts. Foreshadowing of Ser Waymar's becoming a wight? Not well suited suited for the environment. Not stealthy but it is his glory. His moment of triumph and being justified for wanting to investigate further. The Other pays attention to Ser Waymar's raised sword possibly trying to determine it is Valyrian steel or Lightbringer. The rest of the Others only finish the job when Waymar's sword has shattered. They must have been relieved. No wonder they laughed. It's funny, your first 2 paragraphs make it seem like Wymer is in any sales management job such as my own. Your always taught to try and trick a person into thinking they figured something out for themselves, it is as effective in real life as it was getting Gared toshut up. I do not subsricbe to the book within a book theories, but there are several easy solutions to this. First is that Wymer simply meant the week before they tookoff, 2nd is that he meant when they were taking night watches, 3rd is that you simply caught GRRM in a logic hole and he just wanted people to realize something was off before it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 I tend to think it is an error. However, it is possible that they were several days away from Castle Black at the time while still being near the Wall. Maybe? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilplat Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: ... book within a book theories... Google ain't helping me here. Link please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rahloo Connington Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 On 4/25/2017 at 2:27 AM, Macgregor of the North said: Possibly 3 if I'm honest, but i just apply 2 to compensate. I don't think you should ponder it too long really. Not when the Prologue is full of so much better stuff. Count how many times Waymars Sable cloak is mentioned and how he stands out as a Lordly looking Commander and leader to the other two. Check how the Others start to shadow their movements, and when they engage check exactly how the lead Other behaves and what he is looking for and what he is wary about, then check the "signal" the back up Others are waiting for to move in. Also, pay attention to Waymars actual physical description in regards to his eyes and his physical build and try to remember who else is described this way. These things are more rewarding than GRRMS possible sloppiness. John Snow? Coldhands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Yuzzybus said: Good point Macgrgor of the North. GRRM's writing is awesome and holds together quite well. Even the part I was nitpcking helps to set the atmosphere and gives information about the characters, the night's watch and the wall. GRRM could have just had Ser Waymer say "It has not been cold enough Will," instead he has Ser Waymar use the Socratic method to help Will realize this fact for himself. Really a smart strategy to make Will to side with himself against Gared. My opinion of Ser Waymar has improved over time. The first time it is hard not to see him through Will and Gared's eyes and find him arrogant and foolish for not deferring to their experience. He really is very intelligent and determined to do his job well. If anything, the night's watch did him a disservice by putting him in command so soon. It would not be easy to lead more experienced rangers who have laughed at him in their cups. He demonstrates leadership qualities that allow him to stay in command despite this. He is very like Jon Snow. Makes sense since House Stark and House Royce have intermarried in the past. That sable cloak does get mentioned quite a bit. I count 7 mentions. Gared mocked the cloak and owner out of envy. The cloak keeps Ser Waymar warm longer than his companions and less aware of the approaching danger. He seems to take his advantage for granted and perhaps it dulls his survival instincts. Foreshadowing of Ser Waymar's becoming a wight? Not well suited suited for the environment. Not stealthy but it is his glory. His moment of triumph and being justified for wanting to investigate further. The Other pays attention to Ser Waymar's raised sword possibly trying to determine it is Valyrian steel or Lightbringer. The rest of the Others only finish the job when Waymar's sword has shattered. They must have been relieved. No wonder they laughed. Yup the Others suspect Waymar to possibly be this prophesied warrior of fire returned to lead forces against them in war. They expect him to wield the same blade that melted many of their kind thousands of years before so they approach him warily and with superior numbers should he prove to be "the one" they are expecting. After some single combat, we see Waymars blade has frosted over, something I believe that the Others think would not happen to "Dragonsteel". Then once the blade has frosted, the swords do not clash again until Waymars snaps. Waymars parry is late and the Other draws red blood which shows on the snow. At this stage the lead Other identifies him as simply a normal mortal man wielding regular castle forged steel so even when Waymar throws all his might behind his last shot, the Other parries lazily. Boom, Waymars blade shatters, something Dragonsteel never did I don't think and the Others know this. It is now 100% official to all Others present. This was no more than a well dressed green boy wielding regular steel and so they butcher him mercilessly while having a good chuckle to themselves. But the message is there. The Others are on the lookout for the return of the warrior of fire, the prophesied hero returned to bring war to their kind. At least that's my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macgregor of the North Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Red Rahloo Connington said: John Snow? Coldhands? Could be both, but the grey eyed slender description and its similarity to Jon's is something I don't think can be coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 8 hours ago, bilplat said: Google ain't helping me here. Link please? Ever read something on this forum and say to yourself, "are they reading the same book as I am?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Maybe he was implying that he had run off during the nights to find the wall, to find safe shelter because he is acting like a craven? ....good question, you should ask GRRM or his team. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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