Baratheon name origin

[KarlDanski]

Where did the Baratheon name originate from? I know it's from Aegon's supposed bastard brother, but where did the name Baratheon come from? It doesn't sound like a very Valyrian name either. Also, why didn't Orys just adopt the name Durrandon instead of keeping his name Baratheon? You have it where people like Harrold Hardyng or legitimized bastards take the house they are adopted in or join in's name, why not the Baratheons? This is just a wonder, it would seem better for Orys to adopted the Durrandon name like he did with the banner, words, colors etc, would of made him legitimate, even more so considering the Baratheons have the Durrandon look, not the Orys look which was black hair, black eye.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Doesn't sound Valyrian?

Velayron, Targaryen, Qoherys, Celtigar, Belaerys

It's either a name unique to DS or gonna be High Valyrian. The rest of the crownland houses have a decided English tinge to their names. Some of the SL houses are closer in sound and spelling but no lineage or familiarity or claim with the SL is laid out in what we know about the conquest.

[Lollygag]

-theon is a Northern name. There's at least one Theon Stark. The name might be a combination of two or more different things. We do know that Bran the Builder was down there for a while, the Baratheons and Starks are traditionally close and they seem a bit more Northern than some of the Southern families. They also seem to have a lot more weirwoods in that area which might indicate that they've been more resistant to cutting them down than other Southern families.

Not sure about the Bara- part.

[KarlDanski]

Valyrian names have a very big emphasis on Y's. The only Valyrian house that sounds Westerosi is Celtigar and Baratheon. If the Baratheon name was something like Barathyon, it might sound more Valyrian, but it kinda just sounds like a combination of Bara, and Theon, both of which are real life names. Bara which means Innocent, and Theon which means Godly. 

[KarlDanski]

No, Orys came to Westeros from Dragonstone with the name Baratheon, so it wasn't just thought of at Storm's End when he captured it, although in the context of it, it makes sense since the Baratheons are very warlike similar to Theon Stark who was known for his wars.

[Bael's Bastard]

It is most lilkely descended from Valyrian. There's no reason for him to have a First Men or Andal name when Dragonstone was long held by the Valyrians/Targaryens. Not every Valyrian name has a "y," and the "eon" in Baratheon is very similar to the "yon" in Velaryon and "yen" in Targaryen. GRRM could have just as easily spelled it Barathyon or Barathyen without radically changing the pronunciation. It just looks slightly different.

[Universal Sword Donor]

59 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

-theon is a Northern name. There's at least one Theon Stark. The name might be a combination of two or more different things. We do know that Bran the Builder was down there for a while, the Baratheons and Starks are traditionally close and they seem a bit more Northern than some of the Southern families. They also seem to have a lot more weirwoods in that area which might indicate that they've been more resistant to cutting them down than other Southern families.

Not sure about the Bara- part.

Not sure where we are getting "traditionally" close from. Aside from Ned and Rob, who has known each other? Bran the Builder and Durran Godgriefs? There's no one post AC in the Stark family free and we know of no Starks married into the Baratheons. 

[BricksAndSparrows]

It sounds Valyrian to me. 

[The hairy bear]

Orys Baratheon had black hair and black eyes. Since the rumours that he was the son of Aegon's father were widespread, I think that we can assume that his mother was not from Valyrian stock.

Theon seems to be a first men name. Theon Stark fought the Andals, and the name seems to be popular in the North and the Iron Islands: the regions with less Andal influence. I'd say that the most logical assumption is that the Baratheons were minor nobility in Dragonstone and lived there from before the arrival of the Targaryens.

ETA:

18 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

It sounds Valyrian to me. 

There are around 80 different names in the Targaryen family tree. There is only one that do not have a "ae" or a "y", and this is Duncan  (as we know, a non Valyrian name)

It seems to me that a Baratheon doesn't look very Valyrian.

[KarlDanski]

Still. The Baratheon's adopted everything from the House Durrandon, down to the house words, sigil, and honors. Why didn't he adopt the name, even more so since he married Argella Durrandon. It would of made his hold stronger, and to take a prestigious name like Durrandon would of made his fame higher. You have cases of bastards doing this instead of founding a new house, or relatives of an extinct house adopting the name, and becoming the new Lord, why not with Orys?

[The hairy bear]

My guess is that Aegon didn't allow it. The name Durrandon was a kingly name, and Baratheon only came to rule the Stormlands as a "gift" from Aegon. The shield and the motto is one thing, but taking the name Durrandon may be taking a little bit too far the idea that the Baratheons were continuing the royal dynasty of old. Aegon would be interested in making it clear that they were not. This would be important if, a century down the way, a successor of Orys wanted to secede from the Iron Throne. Being a Baratheon is a constant reminder that their fate is linked to the one of House Targaryen.

[KarlDanski]

Makes sense.

[BricksAndSparrows]

40 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

It seems to me that a Baratheon doesn't look very Valyrian.

A Non sequitur.

I said it sounds Valyrian. 

 

[KarlDanski]

It doesn't sound valyrian either since it's "valyrian" sounding part is Theon which is First Men-ish. Unless your making the argument that Bara sounds valyrian which it doesn't either, your point is moot. I'm coming to agreement with hairy that it's probably lower nobility of Dragonstone, maybe on Dragonstone to be even more specific. Castle Dragonstone on Dragonstone Island.

[hiemal]

Do the Westerosi use the same written alphabet as the Valyrians? I suddenly realize that I don't know, but if not it could be a matter of more westerosi-friendly phonetics as a PR move by an incoming regime?

[Damon_Tor]

Breaking it down into Greek "Baratheon" would mean "Barrier of/to/against the Gods" which makes perfect sense in connection to Storm's End and its legend. I assume the name was chosen specifically to please his new constituents.

[BricksAndSparrows]

1 minute ago, Damon_Tor said:

Breaking it down into Greek "Baratheon" would mean "Barrier of/to/against the Gods" which makes perfect sense in connection to Storm's End and its legend. I assume the name was chosen specifically to please his new constituents.

Because his new constituents were fluent in Greek?

[Damon_Tor]

7 minutes ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

Because his new constituents were fluent in Greek?

No more than the Andals were fluent in English.

We know from interviews that GRRM has little interest in languages. He probably did some googling for words that meant "barrier to the gods" in other languages and went with one that looked cool.

[BricksAndSparrows]

9 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

We know from interviews that GRRM has little interest in languages. He probably did some googling for words that meant "barrier to the gods" in other languages and went with one that looked cool.

I would agree. I just don't think that Orys Baratheon picked a name for it's Greek meaning. We get the impression that Baratheon was always his name. Or at least, you would expect Orys original name would be mentioned. 

I think the actual origin of the name (I mean in the real world, as GRRM came up with it,) is most believable as you have described it. But i would consider the Greek definition more of an Easter egg. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

Orys Baratheon had black hair and black eyes. Since the rumours that he was the son of Aegon's father were widespread, I think that we can assume that his mother was not from Valyrian stock.

Theon seems to be a first men name. Theon Stark fought the Andals, and the name seems to be popular in the North and the Iron Islands: the regions with less Andal influence. I'd say that the most logical assumption is that the Baratheons were minor nobility in Dragonstone and lived there from before the arrival of the Targaryens.

ETA:

There are around 80 different names in the Targaryen family tree. There is only one that do not have a "ae" or a "y", and this is Duncan  (as we know, a non Valyrian name)

It seems to me that a Baratheon doesn't look very Valyrian.

We have, what, 5-6 Valyrian last names at our disposal. Half of them end vowel-vowel-consonant. 2 of the 4 (excluding Baratheon) end the same way and they were by far the more prominent families and Orys is Aegon's self-described right hand man, another prominence parallel.

If you look at most regions, they don't have a similar naming pattern for the vast majority of houses. Dondarrion is really the only one that comes close. I'm not a linguist but when a pattern emerges like that I have to lean in that direction. First names are different that last names. And if you want to toss out "one does not have a y or ae" in it, well Orys has a y and fits in the vowel heavy schema the Valyrians seem to love.