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Would Jon Con and Company have still gone to Westeros instead of Meereen if Tywin was alive?


shardofNarsil

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Certainly Lord Tywin makes most people shit their pants and Jon Con thinks very highly of Lord Tywin ,so high in fact he uses Lord Tywin's actions as an example for the best possible one.

So if Tyrion had given young Griff the same lecture about being a beggar suitor to Dany and his increased chances of being accepted by Dany if he proves himself first would Jon had agreed and gone to Westeros or or is Jon Connington still afraid of Tywin -the Lion (King) after all these years.

One of the reasosn I like Robb is because he went to war head on with Lord Tywin and actually gave him quite a challenge something that men like Doran dont have the guts for.

 

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Robb was a great war strategist.  No one can take that away.  It's the other parts of leadership that he lacked.  I'm curious to know who is more mature between Robb and Aegon.  

Jon Con had limited time because of greyscale.  He would attack.  Doran would hesitate and that would mean Aegon's campaign would be short lived.

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2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Robb was a great war strategist.  No one can take that away.  It's the other parts of leadership that he lacked.  I'm curious to know who is more mature between Robb and Aegon.  

Jon Con had limited time because of greyscale.  He would attack.  Doran would hesitate and that would mean Aegon's campaign would be short lived.

Well if tywin wasn't dead tyrion would not have been with jon and caused him to get grey scale. I think a big part of the reason he was sent away like he was was because cersei had put such a high price for him. Tywin would have made some effort but would likely have only done it for show. Hoping that tyrion would end up dead due to the fact he no longer had the lannister name to help him. Or just not really caring about it one way or the other. He hated tyrion but not like cersei who has an obsession with killing him. So jon connington would not have greyscale.

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Rob was a great war strategist but had alot of honor. And even if it had not have been frey who had betrayed him it would have happened later.

I think jon connigton would have advised against going like they did if tywin was still alive. And I don't think he "liked" tywin so much as regretted he hadn't put his honor ahead of winning like he did.

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3 hours ago, shardofNarsil said:

One of the reasosn I like Robb is because he went to war head on with Lord Tywin and actually gave him quite a challenge something that men like Doran dont have the guts for.

Robb also had a lot more men than Doran, so.. y'know.
And yes, JonCon would have eventually attacked whether Tywin was alive or not. Tywin is not a god, with the right conditions he could have been crushed. 

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1 minute ago, Renly's Banana said:

Robb also had a lot more men than Doran, so.. y'know.
And yes, JonCon would have eventually attacked whether Tywin was alive or not. Tywin is not a god, with the right conditions he could have been crushed. 

I think He meant would jon con have gone against attacking without dany if tywin was alive. Kind of a would he have waited and played it safe instead of risking it.

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3 hours ago, shardofNarsil said:

Certainly Lord Tywin makes most people shit their pants and Jon Con thinks very highly of Lord Tywin ,so high in fact he uses Lord Tywin's actions as an example for the best possible one.

So if Tyrion had given young Griff the same lecture about being a beggar suitor to Dany and his increased chances of being accepted by Dany if he proves himself first would Jon had agreed and gone to Westeros or or is Jon Connington still afraid of Tywin -the Lion (King) after all these years.

One of the reasosn I like Robb is because he went to war head on with Lord Tywin and actually gave him quite a challenge something that men like Doran dont have the guts for.

 

Jon Con and Griff would go to westeros no matter what. It is the plot of the book 

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4 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Jon Con and Griff would go to westeros no matter what. It is the plot of the book 

But they would've gone at the same time if tywin was alive? I really don't think so. Even with the greyscale Joc Con wouldn't make such a move and put his protege in danger like that.

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5 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

But they would've gone at the same time if tywin was alive? I really don't think so. Even with the greyscale Joc Con wouldn't make such a move and put his protege in danger like that.

It is a non-question. Tyrion wouldn't be with them if he hadn't killed his dad. The question should have been "Would things be different if the book was different?" 

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30 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

I think He meant would jon con have gone against attacking without dany if tywin was alive. Kind of a would he have waited and played it safe instead of risking it.

Tywin was not going to stay alive for long no matter what. Even if Tyrion or Oberyn had not killed him, Varys would have certainly done so the moment he got word that Aegon and JonCon were ready. Tyrion offering to do that for him was a gift. 

The Golden Company was also itching to go west, not east. Almost every one of them wanted to invade without Daenerys. Tywin doesn't matter nearly as much as Mace Tyrell and the Reach do. 

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6 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

It is a non-question. Tyrion wouldn't be with them if he hadn't killed his dad. The question should have been "Would things be different if the book was different?" 

You're right. But with this new scenario they'd probably ask daenerys to join forces and fight for the IT together and just ask a few lands in return.

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I tend to agree with the idea that he would have a sense of urgency due to his greyscale, but the reason he even got greyscale was because active plans were put into motion. They picked up Tyrion and sailed south, ultimately leading to the encounter with the stone men. Then you also have to remember that, as mentioned, Griff was spurred into invading Westeros through the advisement of Tyrion. The reason Tyrion was in Essos was because he killed his father and fled. So the question has some technical issues...

But there are some interesting things to think about in regards to Connington and Tywin. Connington has a chip on his shoulder and something to prove when it specifically comes to Tywin. He admired the man and tried to emulate him during his time as the King's hand, but he fell short and ultimately lost his position, titles, and land. Now he's older, in exile, and has had a lot of time to stew on it all. So, the conclusion of this side could be that Connington's victory is Westeros may have been even sweeter if he could have gone head to head with Tywin Lannister. While Tywin is a scary figure to what's left of Westeros, their diminished armies may not be so frightening the Golden Company is pretty famous for being an effective army.

 

Edit:

I went and looked back at when it was first mentioned that the Golden Company broke their countract with Myr. It's mentioned in a Cersei chapter (AFFC, Ch. 17), and at this point Tywin was already dead. So, it could be argued that Illyrio and the Golden Company thought the time was ripe to put plans into motion because Tywin was dead.

 

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1 hour ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

You're right. But with this new scenario they'd probably ask daenerys to join forces and fight for the IT together and just ask a few lands in return.

If tywin was alive, something else would happen to get tyrion to essos so the story would proceed as written 

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On 26/04/2017 at 10:49 AM, Dorian Martell's son said:

If tywin was alive, something else would happen to get tyrion to essos so the story would proceed as written 

Agreed, but do you mean " something else would have to happen to get tyrion to essos so the story would proceed as written"?  Because, as the story was going, I don't see him choosing/needing to go to Pentos with Illirio himself if Tywin was written to stay alive.... HOWEVER....

I do recognize you are just stating the blatant obvious...this is the story so it has to happen some way or another....BUT... I these guys are just speculating about the nature of the characters if they were placed in alternative circumstances.  Common man, it's been 25 years in the coming, we are all a bit bat shit by now!! LOL

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