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Gamergaters Please attempt to claim this isn't objectification


Ser Scot A Ellison

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29 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, kinda sorta. It's a bit like the Kurosawa Samurai flicks being inspired by Hollywood Westerns, which then inspired Spaghetti Westerns. It's kind of hard to tell where one ends and where the next begins.

I thought Westerns, like "The Magnificent Seven" were inspired by Kurasowa's "The Seven Samurai"?

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14 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Also the anime genre as it exists today came about in the direct aftermath of the nuclear bombs on Japan. Why all the characters look like the race that nuked them is still a mystery to me.

They don't. Those characters are Japanese, they're supposed to look Japanese, and if you asked a Japanese person they would say they looked Japanese. At least in so far as they can, if you translated what Manga characters looked like into real life you'd get a fucking alien. Much like with almost all animation. When actual white people show up in anime and manga they are pretty serious visual stereotypes associated with them. Square Jaws and big noses mostly. (Think Guile from street fighter) And in the absence of visual stereotypes they will make sure to tell you in almost all cases, in universe or out. (Did you know Luffy from One Piece is Brazilian? And Ussop is African)

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Honestly, what you'll are describing is more like cultural exchange. Japanese manga has roots that go before its exposure to the West, but then you have a major figure like Osamu Tezuka being inspired by Disney art and drawing ALL THE COMICS. Kurosawa is inspired by Shakespeare, but he put unique  twists on the stories. Then Lucas uses Hidden Fortress and then anime characters have laser swords (whether or not Star Wars originated the laser sword/lightsaber is not known to me, but it certainly made it a Thing.) 

Cultural appropriation is more a dominant (yes, white, but also mainstream) culture taking, using, and claiming of a thing without acknowledging its origin. It's a thorny issue best left for another thread.

As for a video game slapping lady parts on ships and then allowing the player to date/court/woo them? It's one in a long line of goofy dating/harem sims that yes, would have to work hard NOT to be sexist. Of course this reminds me of Hetalia, which from what I understand was all about the Axis and Allies countries as literal cute boys.

 

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The great irony is that making safe inoffensive boring female characters with zero personality, sexuality, or anything of interest achieves the ultimate in objectification. The result is an obvious graphic with no way to even pretend to have any sort of respect or emotional attachment to it, just an object on a screen.

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1 minute ago, Liver and Onions said:

Honestly, what you'll are describing is more like cultural exchange. Japanese manga has roots that go before its exposure to the West, but then you have a major figure like Osamu Tezuka being inspired by Disney art and drawing ALL THE COMICS. Kurosawa is inspired by Shakespeare, but he put unique  twists on the stories. Then Lucas uses Hidden Fortress and then anime characters have laser swords (whether or not Star Wars originated the laser sword/lightsaber is not known to me, but it certainly made it a Thing.) 

Cultural appropriation is more a dominant (yes, white, but also mainstream) culture taking, using, and claiming of a thing without acknowledging its origin. It's a thorny issue best left for another thread.

Yeah, i agree. None of this Manga/Anime vs American Comics or the Kurosawa influences/influencing equals true appropriation. 

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12 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

They don't. Those characters are Japanese, they're supposed to look Japanese, and if you asked a Japanese person they would say they looked Japanese. At least in so far as they can, if you translated what Manga characters looked like into real life you'd get a fucking alien. Much like with almost all animation. When actual white people show up in anime and manga they are pretty serious visual stereotypes associated with them. Square Jaws and big noses mostly. (Think Guile from street fighter) And in the absence of visual stereotypes they will make sure to tell you in almost all cases, in universe or out. (Did you know Luffy from One Piece is Brazilian? And Ussop is African)

Sailor Moon has blonde hair and blue eyes. Her whole crew is obvious teenage white girls.

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Just now, DunderMifflin said:

Sailor Moon has blonde hair and blue eyes. Her whole crew is obvious teenage white girls.

Sailor Mercury has blue hair, Sailor Neptune has teal hair, Sailor Mars has purple hair. They all have the same damn face and need something to distinguish them. Hair and eye colour are whatever the artist wants it to be and is not at all a good indicator of ethnicity. Especially when compared to Sailor Moon's name being Usagi Tsukino and her being born in Japan.

 

... And I am a 24 year old man and know way to much about Sailor Moon.

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2 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Sailor Mercury has blue hair, Sailor Neptune has teal hair, Sailor Mars has purple hair. They all have the same damn face and need something to distinguish them. Hair and eye colour are whatever the artist wants it to be and is not at all a good indicator of ethnicity. Especially when compared to Sailor Moon's name being Usagi Tsukino and her being born in Japan.

 

... And I am a 24 year old man and know way to much about Sailor Moon.

 

/Stay away from me, Cyclone Ranger!

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1 minute ago, DunderMifflin said:

The list goes on - full metal alchemist. Bleach has a legit ginger. It can't just keep on being coincidence over and over

It's not coincidence it's that hair or eye colour tells us nothing. In universes where pink, teal, blue, purple, or white haired people live why is a ginger or blonde Japanese person weird? Ichigo Kurosaki is Japanese 100% so is Orihime and the Pink haired Yachiru. Edward Elric is probably not, but that has nothing to do with his blonde hair, he has golden eyes like no actual person who has ever lived, it's based on his name being Edward Elric and him living in a society that's clearly inspired by Europe. (Like I said, if a dude's not Japanese you will be told, FMA wasn't subtle about it even before they brought in the obviously Asian Xing.)

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2 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

That excuse doesn't fly with me. You couldn't make an American show with the main characters having  slanted eyes and a shimada do, then be like nah it's cartoonland she's totally not asian.

That is how the Japanese see it though. The characters are viewed as Japanese regardless of the aesthetic. From my knowledge that how it always been.

I recall several comments and article on how the Japanese did not care that Scarlett Johanson played the main character from Ghost in The Shell while it was a minor controversy here. The same logic applies.

Also considering how many films have white people playing another ethnicity I do not really understand it 

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35 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

That excuse doesn't fly with me. You couldn't make an American show with the main characters having  slanted eyes and a shimada do, then be like nah it's cartoonland she's totally not asian.

You could if eyeshape was easily changed and there was a precedent of giving people a rainbow of eye shapes. If the person next to her has triangle shaped eyes than yeah she might not be Asian. Especially if the eyeshape didn't look much like actual human eyeshape. No blonde I know has the shade of yellow Sailor Moon has.

Look Dunder, you're trying to claim these people are white because of two minor physical traits in universe's that clearly do not follow our universe's conventions on hair and eye colour. The idea that Sailor Moon is white because of her hair and eye colour would be ridiculous knowing that even if blonde hair and blue eyes were exclusive to white people. They're not. Neither is red hair.

21 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

On the main article:

A ship being viewed as female does have quite an extensive history and ship captain's have viewed themselves being married to them.

For Japan, I thought it very tame and a little quaint.

Don't uh... don't google it with safeseach off.

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8 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

I think ur reaching. Next ur gonna tell me Mario and Luigi are just a couple of Japanese brothers 

Did you not pay any attention to what I said at all? What did I say about Edward Elric? Same thing applies here. Base ethnicity on things that can represent ethnicity, like names and culture. Not their hair colour. Cause if I get to choose on hair colour Mario and Luigi are First Nations.

Reaching is calling a person with a Japanese name living in Japan white because of their hair colour. That'd be stupid in our world.

What is pink haired Yachiru in your mind anyway?

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50 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Don't uh... don't google it with safeseach off.

Nothing jumped at me from the article I read of more perverse elements though I do not doubt there are.

The article was also quite concern of a militarism and of glorifying a period that Japanese may not of truthfully address  (as is the case with many countries).

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3 hours ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Nothing jumped at me from the article I read of more perverse elements though I do not doubt there are.

The article was also quite concern of a militarism and of glorifying a period that Japanese may not of truthfully address  (as is the case with many countries).

Oh it's got nothing to do with the base game. Japan's fandom is scary and rule 34 is strong here.

Then again that's largely true of all fandom.

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