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Gamergaters Please attempt to claim this isn't objectification


Ser Scot A Ellison

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37 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Did you not pay any attention to what I said at all? What did I say about Edward Elric? Same thing applies here. Base ethnicity on things that can represent ethnicity, like names and culture. Not their hair colour. Cause if I get to choose on hair colour Mario and Luigi are First Nations.

Reaching is calling a person with a Japanese name living in Japan white because of their hair colour. That'd be stupid in our world.

What is pink haired Yachiru in your mind anyway?

What represents Mario's ethnicity again? 

Oh wait he's total Japanese because mario world has little dinosaurs and shit.

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Yeh I'm reading but it's just going in a circle. You are claiming that any similarity to Europeans in anime is coincidental or clearly pointed out to not be japanese, and I'm saying I don't believe that at all. What else is left, if anyone honestly looks at sailor moon for the first time and says  "yep, theyre all totally Japanese alright, nothing like Europeans" I think they would be dishonest.

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3 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Yeh I'm reading but it's just going in a circle. You are claiming that any similarity to Europeans in anime is coincidental or clearly pointed out to not be japanese, and I'm saying I don't believe that at all. What else is left, if anyone honestly looks at sailor moon for the first time and says  "yep, theyre all totally Japanese alright, nothing like Europeans" I think they would be dishonest.

You're reading comprehension is fucking terrible.

What I'm saying is you cannot use eye and hair colour as a criteria for ethnicity. Because in the same anime that has blonde haired Usagi Tsukino you have blue haired Ami, purple haired Rei, teal haired Michiru, and pink haired Chibiusa. Anime gives not one shit for realism in eye and hair colour. They are not European, those are not European traits, and those are the only traits that differentiate them. All the other traits they have are so generically anime as to not be real to any human. No one has eyes like that, no one has noses like that, no one has mouths like that. Not without heavy plastic surgery at least. Looking at a girl with blue hair and going "totally a European, let's ignore where she's from and her clearly Japanese name" that's fucking dishonest. If people look at the sailor scouts and think "white girls" it's the same reason someone would look at stick figure and think "white person" because they're white and assume white as a default but if they look at the name Usagi Tsukino and think "white girl" then they aren't thinking at all. Usagi Tsukino is as white as Rei Hino, and if you look at Rei and think European when she has not one European trait I don't know what to tell you.

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What else is left

Oh I don't know, it's not like I answered this when talking about Edward Elric. There are little things like their name and the culture they come fro, but that's apparently much less important than hair and eye colour, apparently dye doesn't exist in the anime world. Hence Edward Elric. Clearly European because his name is Edward Fucking Elric, and he lives in a clearly European inspired setting. Mario same deal, his name is Italian and he lives in an area with European style castles. But then that was you ignoring you're own logic. If we base Mario's ethnicity on hair colour than we shouldn't assume he is white, because most people with black hair aren't white. Just like most people with Blonde hair aren't Asian. Guess Mario's Chinese or Indian.

Or like I said in my first bloody post, you could look for traits that actually do signify that the character is not Japanese. When actually white people show up in manga and anime (especially Americans) if the artist wants to signify that visually it is blatant. American's do not come out looking good in most Anime.

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TM you have made this point hands down.

If all I knew was that Sailor Moon was a nickname for a character named Usagi Tsukino, that she spoke Japanese and that she lived in Japan, I would be justified in concluding that she was Japanese.

If I then saw a picture that showed her with blonde hair I would still conclude she was Japanese.  The same goes for each of the other characters.

As the saying goes, It's not rocket science.

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1 hour ago, TrueMetis said:

You're reading comprehension is fucking terrible.

No I understand what you are saying just fine, I just don't believe it....at all. Hopefully you can comprehend that. 

Theres nothing more to debate really, neither of us are inside the minds of Japanese creators. So you don't know and neither do I.

I'm just going by looks, in large part anime people look European in my and many others opinions. And it's not just white people that think so before that false point gets brought up.

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1 hour ago, DunderMifflin said:

Theres nothing more to debate really, neither of us are inside the minds of Japanese creators. So you don't know and neither do I.

 

Except for the fact anime creators give interviews in which they discuss their characters, of course.
Notwithstanding the fact that anime characters generally have Japanes names and live in Japan anyway...

Like, no offense, but if you were to tell me the characters from Gate: jieitai kanochi nite, kaku tatakaeri, or even Evangelion are NOT Japanese, then you'd be a moron.

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1 hour ago, DunderMifflin said:

No I understand what you are saying just fine, I just don't believe it....at all. Hopefully you can comprehend that. 

Theres nothing more to debate really, neither of us are inside the minds of Japanese creators. So you don't know and neither do I.

I'm just going by looks, in large part anime people look European in my and many others opinions. And it's not just white people that think so before that false point gets brought up.

Which means you are intentionally remaining ignorant about the balance of the available information.  Which means your opinion is baseless, uninformed and rather silly.

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While the female battleship thing seems crazy it reminds me of several somewhat old-fashioned metaphorical descriptions in German. One can say "aufgetakelt" (literally rigged) for "tarted up" (usually with a negative connotation) and "abgetakelt" (unrigged) for a woman considerably past her prime. (And even more old-fashioned/local? one can call a tarted up woman (derogatively a "rigged frigate", eine "aufgetakelte Fregatte", or "aufgetakelt wie eine Fregatte".) So maybe treating women like battleships or vice versa is culturally more widespread than one would expect.

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7 hours ago, Rippounet said:

 

Except for the fact anime creators give interviews in which they discuss their characters, of course.
Notwithstanding the fact that anime characters generally have Japanes names and live in Japan anyway...

Like, no offense, but if you were to tell me the characters from Gate: jieitai kanochi nite, kaku tatakaeri, or even Evangelion are NOT Japanese, then you'd be a moron.

Are the interviews you cite in English? Or in Japanese? Perhaps you can translate the parts of these interviews where they discuss how they totally make their characters look Japanese and not all like white people. 

Not like I'd still believe it anyway. There are these things called lies, and no nationalities are immune to them.

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7 hours ago, Stubby said:

Which means you are intentionally remaining ignorant about the balance of the available information.  Which means your opinion is baseless, uninformed and rather silly.

Then almost EVERY SINGLE complaint about females in video games is just as stupid. 

It's not often, if ever specifically pointed out that "this character on the screen is a representation of a human female"

You have to go mainly by appearance, which would make the criticisms uninformed and silly.  Hey maybe I am a gamergater, were they the ones that were on the anti censorship side? 

Complaining about video game characters is pretty petty, I liken in it to Christians buring Elvis records because his hip shaking was straight from the devil.

 

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16 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

No, it's objectifying women by representing them Japanese warships that players can buy and "marry".

 

Doesn't really seem different from the entire Japanese dating sim genre. This isn't even the first time this kind of anthropomorphism has happened. There's been games and anime where tanks are women, WWII countries are women, alpacas are women, pigeons are women, and so on.

I'm gonna chalk it up to cultural differences.

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7 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said:

Then almost EVERY SINGLE complaint about females in video games is just as stupid. 

It's not often, if ever specifically pointed out that "this character on the screen is a representation of a human female"

You have to go mainly by appearance, which would make the criticisms uninformed and silly.  Hey maybe I am a gamergater, were they the ones that were on the anti censorship side? 

Complaining about video game characters is pretty petty, I liken in it to Christians buring Elvis records because his hip shaking was straight from the devil.

 

When you are trying to defend a silly position, it always helps to use all caps.

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I mean if you think this anime battleship = a person is offensive then let's look at other entertainment medium. 

Film = hardest of the hardcore pornography gets put onto film and viewed everyday.

Literature = basically has no bounds of maintaining decency, almost anything goes.

Yet the entire video game industry gets criticized for every tiny infraction to bordedom.

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