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What is the "power in king's blood"?


Damsel in Distress

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Just what exactly is the power in king's blood? 

  1. Burning king's blood creates magic.  This is what Mel believes.  This is not what I believe.  Just about every Targaryen king of the last three hundred years were burned.  Aerion burned himself to death.  As far as we know, not a single time did it create a miracle.  That's three hundred years of burning king's blood and nothing of note took place other than make a lot of smoke.  Evidence does not support this theory.
  2. Someone with king's blood can perform miracles if they knew the right spells and rituals.   Aegon V had all the ingredients.  He had the large fire, he even sacrificed himself (king), and many others with king's blood.  Rhaegar was born close to the time Summerhall went down but he was conceived nine months before.  Is that a miracle?  It sounds weak to me.  Very underwhelming and not worth the trouble considering the baby would come out anyway.  Daenerys had all the ingredients and the stone eggs hatched into dragons.  We know for sure that Daenerys has king's blood and she performed the funeral ceremony.  There is support for this theory.
  3. Descendants of Garth Greenhand have power in their blood.  This is the idea presented by youtuber Order of the Greenhand.  I recommend their channel to you if you wish to explore this idea.  They explain it better than I do and there is support for this theory.  I believe the Greenseers have a preference for the blood of the First Men, which Garth's descendants are.  This is one possible explanation for why the Greenseer may dislike the First Men breeding out as it could dilute their blood.  The blood of the First Men carry the genes that give the ability to skin change.  Lose that ability and the Greenseers lose control of their birds and animals.  Too many breeding out and the talent will go away.  Perhaps bleeding a powerful skin changer and letting his blood soak to the weir roots is what will create a miracle.  Let's bleed Bran and Jon and test the theory.  Feeding on the blood of the First Men nourish the ability of the skin changers attached to the roots. 
  4. The red comet is the king's blood.  This one is based on the Dothraki legend of the sun and the moon.  If the moon is goddess, then the sun is a god.  The word god may have changed to king after thousands of years of translation.  The comet is the broken piece of the moon or sun, or at least that is what they believe.  It is the blood of the sun or the moon.  Dany, the Azor Ahai, was reborn under the red comet.  The dragons hatched under the red comet.  There is support for this theory in my opinion.  The red comet is the king's blood that "slays the season" and resets the climate.  The sword Dawn may have come from the comet.

 

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There is actually none. There is a magical power in certain bloodlines - confirmed for the descendants of dragonlords who have 'the blood of the dragon' (which very likely means that there was some sort of blood-merging between the ancient Valyrian dragonlords and the dragons they breed and control) - but it is just an accident of history that the Targaryens ended up becoming a royal dynasty.

There are also other magical bloodlines, of course.

The ability to become a skinchanger also seems to run in certain families, including the Starks (although nothing indicates that any Starks of the recent past or any prominent Stark kings we know of were skinchangers). The Durrandon-Baratheons certainly seem to be somewhat special, not just because of dominance of the black hair but also because of myth about Durran Godsgrief and Elenei.

And even the Lannisters and Casterlys seem to be somewhat special, with Corlos of Caster being guided by the sun into the cave where he found the gold, and the connection they seemed to have with the lions.

The line of the Gardeners certainly was special, too. They had a living throne and where the ultimate authority in the Reach from the start, even when there were still a lot of petty kings. Not to mention that Garth the Green and Garth the Gardener would have been rather exceptional beings if they ever existed. But now they are basically extinct, at least in the male line, and even back at the time of the conquest their line was pretty much diluted with quite a few distant cousins taking over when the male line died out.

The general idea that wearing a crown or being anointed as king gives your blood 'special powers' is just crap. Both in reality and in Westeros. But in Westeros a special dynasty actually ruled the Realm for three hundred years so there is actually some justification for this stupid belief in that world.

The blood that makes Stannis, Shireen, Edric Storm, etc. important is Targaryen blood, not 'king's blood' in general. But blood magic works if you sacrifice special people and it also works (although perhaps not as well as it could) if you sacrifice more ordinary people.

Melisandre certainly knows why she wanted to sacrifice Edric Storm. Her followers may be less knowledgeable, explaining why some of them considered sacrificing Mance and his son a good idea. After all, they are kings, too, in a sense. But that's just crap.

George plays here both with the fantasy concept of 'magical bloodlines' as well as with the real world medieval belief that kings actually had special powers their descendants inherited. The whole concept of hereditary monarchy and aristocracy is that there are special people set apart from others by blood, breed, and inherent gifts. And that is, of course, also at the heart of the society in Westeros. A Tarly, Mallister, Tallhart, and Rykker is set apart by virtue of both and inherited nobility from some peasant or other commoner. Those are people born to rule and the others to serve, work, and die an early death. Such is the order of the world.

The king is just a dialed-up super version of a feudal lord. Even if the Targaryens didn't have special looks and blood people would still believe that as kings they must be better and more special than common men, including lords. Else they would not be where they are - at the very top of the society.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

The blood that makes Stannis, Shireen, Edric Storm, etc. important is Targaryen blood, not 'king's blood' in general. But blood magic works if you sacrifice special people and it also works (although perhaps not as well as it could) if you sacrifice more ordinary people

Every Targaryen gets cremated.  Yet no record of a miracle.  Burning the blood just causes it to evaporate and nourishes nothing.

2 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Just what exactly is the power in king's blood? 

  1. Burning king's blood creates magic.  This is what Mel believes.  This is not what I believe.  Just about every Targaryen king of the last three hundred years were burned.  Aerion burned himself to death.  As far as we know, not a single time did it create a miracle.  That's three hundred years of burning king's blood and nothing of note took place other than make a lot of smoke.  Evidence does not support this theory.
  2. Someone with king's blood can perform miracles if they knew the right spells and rituals.   Aegon V had all the ingredients.  He had the large fire, he even sacrificed himself (king), and many others with king's blood.  Rhaegar was born close to the time Summerhall went down but he was conceived nine months before.  Is that a miracle?  It sounds weak to me.  Very underwhelming and not worth the trouble considering the baby would come out anyway.  Daenerys had all the ingredients and the stone eggs hatched into dragons.  We know for sure that Daenerys has king's blood and she performed the funeral ceremony.  There is support for this theory.
  3. Descendants of Garth Greenhand have power in their blood.  This is the idea presented by youtuber Order of the Greenhand.  I recommend their channel to you if you wish to explore this idea.  They explain it better than I do and there is support for this theory.  I believe the Greenseers have a preference for the blood of the First Men, which Garth's descendants are.  This is one possible explanation for why the Greenseer may dislike the First Men breeding out as it could dilute their blood.  The blood of the First Men carry the genes that give the ability to skin change.  Lose that ability and the Greenseers lose control of their birds and animals.  Too many breeding out and the talent will go away.  Perhaps bleeding a powerful skin changer and letting his blood soak to the weir roots is what will create a miracle.  Let's bleed Bran and Jon and test the theory.  Feeding on the blood of the First Men nourish the ability of the skin changers attached to the roots. 
  4. The red comet is the king's blood.  This one is based on the Dothraki legend of the sun and the moon.  If the moon is goddess, then the sun is a god.  The word god may have changed to king after thousands of years of translation.  The comet is the broken piece of the moon or sun, or at least that is what they believe.  It is the blood of the sun or the moon.  Dany, the Azor Ahai, was reborn under the red comet.  The dragons hatched under the red comet.  There is support for this theory in my opinion.  The red comet is the king's blood that "slays the season" and resets the climate.  The sword Dawn may have come from the comet.

 

 2 and 3 sounds right to me.  Having the blood of a king, in this case the kings in Dany's vision, is a prerequisite for fire based magic.  Though the ability is still rare among the family.  FM blood is a prerequisite for the Starks and their warging, but not every Stark will have the warg ability.  Take note, it is the red priests that claims there is power in king's blood.  The Old Gods aren't so picky.  They take any blood but I see why they would prefer the blood that has warg ability because they absorb the memory and the ability.

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Becoming kings didn't make the blood powerful but those with the powerful blood tended to be kings. Sacrificing Targaryen blood (or an otherwise death) specifically can allow the second lifing of dragons. The Valyrians were/are not the only ones to be able to bind their blood with creatures, including magical ones, but they're the only ones to manage it with dragons as far as the text goes. Experimentation continues in Asshai.

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9 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Just what exactly is the power in king's blood?

Belief. Subjects of a King subconsciously invest their psychic potential in him. A king who knows this, and knows how to use it, would be very dangerous, which is why Euron is someone to keep an eye on.

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7 hours ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

Every Targaryen gets cremated.  Yet no record of a miracle.  Burning the blood just causes it to evaporate and nourishes nothing.

Well, you have to do something with it. To intend to do something with it. Magic doesn't just happened, you have to want it to happen, too. Dany wanted to hatch her dragon eggs in the pyre.

Besides, burning dead people isn't the same as burning them alive or as cutting their throats and spilling their blood in some magical ritual.

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9 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Belief. It all comes down to belief. It does what you believe it does. 

This seems to be the correct. After all, Westeros had thousands if not millions of Kings over the years, if Kings Blood had any power at all the majority of Westerosi noble and smallfolk would had King’s blood.

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16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, you have to do something with it. To intend to do something with it. Magic doesn't just happened, you have to want it to happen, too. Dany wanted to hatch her dragon eggs in the pyre.

Besides, burning dead people isn't the same as burning them alive or as cutting their throats and spilling their blood in some magical ritual.

There are plenty of Targaryens who REALLY REALLY wanted their dragon eggs to hatch in various fires they burned themselves in.

My guess? Dragons can't hatch if a descendant of Harren Hoare is ruling from Harrenhall. House Lothston took Harrenhall in 151. The last dragon was born in 153. Dragons weren't born again until after the castle was taken from house Whent at the start of the War of the Five Kings. Important note: Catlyn Stark's mother was a Whent. Baelish is lord of Harrenhall. It's entirely possible his interest in Sansa will lead to some interesting developments.

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2 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

There are plenty of Targaryens who REALLY REALLY wanted their dragon eggs to hatch in various fires they burned themselves in.

They did? Who are those? I don't know any such Targaryens, actually. The only that might qualify as such would be Aegon V, and I'm pretty sure he had no intention to burn himself at Summerhall.

2 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

My guess? Dragons can't hatch if a descendant of Harren Hoare is ruling from Harrenhall. House Lothston took Harrenhall in 151. The last dragon was born in 153. Dragons weren't born again until after the castle was taken from house Whent at the start of the War of the Five Kings. Important note: Catlyn Stark's mother was a Whent. Baelish is lord of Harrenhall. It's entirely possible his interest in Sansa will lead to some interesting developments.

The Lothstons were actually a secret Targaryen cadet branch, it seems, so I don't see what you are talking about there. The Hoares were destroyed back during the Conquest and if Harren the Red was a bastard of Harren the Black he, too, was put down in 37 AC.

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39 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

My guess? Dragons can't hatch if a descendant of Harren Hoare is ruling from Harrenhall. House Lothston took Harrenhall in 151. The last dragon was born in 153. Dragons weren't born again until after the castle was taken from house Whent at the start of the War of the Five Kings. Important note: Catlyn Stark's mother was a Whent. Baelish is lord of Harrenhall. It's entirely possible his interest in Sansa will lead to some interesting developments.

Now Baelish is an interesting fellow.  He seems all out for himself and yet he has been tearing down the Baratheons, Starks, Tullys, and Arryns.  The main instigators of Robert's Rebellion. 

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6 minutes ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Now Baelish is an interesting fellow.  He seems all out for himself and yet he has been tearing down the Baratheons, Starks, Tullys, and Arryns.  The main instigators of Robert's Rebellion. 

Then why he hadn't attack the Targs? Without Aerys' and Rhaegar's actions there would had been no Rebellion.

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2 hours ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Now Baelish is an interesting fellow.  He seems all out for himself and yet he has been tearing down the Baratheons, Starks, Tullys, and Arryns.  The main instigators of Robert's Rebellion. 

Is this a LF-is-a-secret-Targ theory?  The line of Baelish is Braavosi.  But yeah, it would appear superficially that PB is punishing the culprits, the rebels, the usurper's dogs.  That's only because they stand in the way of his goals, whatever those goals may be.  And you have to think, perhaps he wants to pay them back for the humiliation he suffered, for loving Catelyn. 

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16 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

The red comet is the king's blood.  This one is based on the Dothraki legend of the sun and the moon.  If the moon is goddess, then the sun is a god.  The word god may have changed to king after thousands of years of translation.  The comet is the broken piece of the moon or sun, or at least that is what they believe.  It is the blood of the sun or the moon.  Dany, the Azor Ahai, was reborn under the red comet.  The dragons hatched under the red comet.  There is support for this theory in my opinion.  The red comet is the king's blood that "slays the season" and resets the climate.  The sword Dawn may have come from the comet.

Quote

The Dothraki named the comet shierak qiya, the Bleeding Star. The old men muttered that it omened ill, but Daenerys Targaryen had seen it first on the night she had burned Khal Drogo, the night her dragons had awakened. It is the herald of my coming, she told herself as she gazed up into the night sky with wonder in her heart. The gods have sent it to show me the way.--A Clash of Kings - Daenerys I

This quote is the only mention (as far as I can find) of what the Dothraki believe about the comet.  Bleeding star- well, the sun is a star right? "My sun-and-stars", is what Dany called Khal Drogo.  Khal=King.  Bleeding star=King's blood.  This naturally follows logic.  

Quote

Bran asked Septon Chayle about the comet while they were sorting through some scrolls snatched from the library fire. "It is the sword that slays the season," he replied, and soon after the white raven came from Oldtown bringing word of autumn, so doubtless he was right.

So Septon Chayle was correct, or it seems so.  "Doubtless, he was right"??......hmmm.

So, there is evidence of the comet being "king's blood", and that it has power..........If you believe that there is evidence ;)

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4 hours ago, Wolf of the Steppes said:

This quote is the only mention (as far as I can find) of what the Dothraki believe about the comet.  Bleeding star- well, the sun is a star right? "My sun-and-stars", is what Dany called Khal Drogo.  Khal=King.  Bleeding star=King's blood.  This naturally follows logic.  

So Septon Chayle was correct, or it seems so.  "Doubtless, he was right"??......hmmm.

So, there is evidence of the comet being "king's blood", and that it has power..........If you believe that there is evidence ;)

So true.  It is the sword that chases away the darkness.  It's appearance changes the season.

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17 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

"Power resides where men believe it resides, no more, no less." - I think Varys tells this to Ned. 

He says it to Tyrion actually, but yes. 

However, Varys is talking about temporal power, not magic. So while this is a great quote, and very true in general, I'm not sure it applies to whatever the heck Mel is talking about. 

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10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

He says it to Tyrion actually, but yes. 

However, Varys is talking about temporal power, not magic. So while this is a great quote, and very true in general, I'm not sure it applies to whatever the heck Mel is talking about. 

Yep, Tyrion, not Ned. 

See, I think it does; I think belief is key in most if not all situations. I've seen magicians IRL do unbelievable things. If I didn't flat out know that these people were in fact, experts in illusion I would probably be walking around now believing in magic. 

What Planetos definitely does possess is a whole range of other worldly materials. Things that we just do not have on earth. Valyrian steel seems to have a component unknown to us. Wildfire is a curious thing. White walkers, dragons, psychic cotf, dire wolves, shadow assassins, faceless men, warging, giants, that weird black stone that keeps popping up... there's a whole host of things organic to Planetos that we don't have an opportunity to study.
Can all the above be called magic? I guess so. I always treat the word magic the same way I would the word evil. It's a word we use almost exclusively when we're talking about something inexplicable or poorly defined. 

Was Euron's horn at the moot magical, or is it simply a tool that has a profound effect on people within it's influence? Was Orell's eagle shot out of the sky by a fireball or did the wall have a spell or was it hit by a stray fire arrow? The truth is we don't know so we say 'magic' and the more 'magic' we see the more readily we believe it. 

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3 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Yep, Tyrion, not Ned. 

See, I think it does; I think belief is key in most if not all situations. I've seen magicians IRL do unbelievable things. If I didn't flat out know that these people were in fact, experts in illusion I would probably be walking around now believing in magic. 

What Planetos definitely does possess is a whole range of other worldly materials. Things that we just do not have on earth. Valyrian steel seems to have a component unknown to us. Wildfire is a curious thing. White walkers, dragons, psychic cotf, dire wolves, shadow assassins, faceless men, warging, giants, that weird black stone that keeps popping up... there's a whole host of things organic to Planetos that we don't have an opportunity to study.
Can all the above be called magic? I guess so. I always treat the word magic the same way I would the word evil. It's a word we use almost exclusively when we're talking about something inexplicable or poorly defined. 

Was Euron's horn at the moot magical, or is it simply a tool that has a profound effect on people within it's influence? Was Orell's eagle shot out of the sky by a fireball or did the wall have a spell or was it hit by a stray fire arrow? The truth is we don't know so we say 'magic' and the more 'magic' we see the more readily we believe it. 

I disagree. Whether we want to call the unexplained or unexplainable magic, or metaphysics, or Cousin Phil, the fact remains that it does exist in the story. People believing in it or not makes no difference. It's there.

The real world "magicians" are a good parallel to Varys' riddle because power is an illusion. The otherworldly goings on in the story are absolutely not illusions. People are wighted. Dragons exist and breathe fire. Thoros the drunk was able to resurrect someone six times! There's no trick to it, there is no illusion to those things.

Mel has some illusions that she uses to edge people closer to belief but what she wants them to believe does exist in some form. Unlike our "magicians" she's not in this to make money or entertain people. She's got a goal and a purpose that seems to hinge on saving the world from the very real threat of the Others. Even her illusions are for the purpose of driving people to defeat a real and Cousin Phil-ical enemy.

For Euron's horn to affect people the way it did would require "Cousin Phil" as none of the Ironborn believed in advance that it would have any effect on them. For the Wall to burn Orell's eagle would require "Cousin Phil" because the eagle sure didn't believe it would be fired out of the sky, and the NW weren't shooting their fire arrows up into the sky where the eagle would be, so for a stray to hit the eagle would require (say it with me) "Cousin Phil."

None of the "magical" things we've seen in the series happened purely because people believed they would. GRRM is careful to show us the difference (mainly through Mel) between the illusions or tricks, and the authentically Cousin Phil.

For the record, I don't use the word evil for something that's inexplicable or poorly defined. 

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