NBA 2017: Take That For Data - MVP Edition

[Jaime L]

I know postseason doesn't matter in the voting, but it's made clear Kawhi should't be the MVP, right? Spurs destroyed the Rockets in a road game 6 without him...and were 7-0 without him this season. He's a fantastic player but the system is bigger than even him.

I completely misjudged this series because I look at the Spurs roster and I just don't see the talent at all. But Pop is a goddamn genius. Give this roster to anyone but him and it wins like 40 games, right? 

Harden was a goddamn disaster in this one. Brought a Ben Stein level of intensity. Weird that he does battle with Kawhi over a 6 game series and it only seems to confirm to me that Westbrook is the MVP.

[Jaime L]

1 minute ago, Triskan said:

I don't plug Stephen A too often, but he said something tonight imploring the audience to try to imagine Westbrook having a night like Harden just had in a scenario like this, and it is indeed impossible to imagine.  

So I can't imagine any other superstar with the kind of zero intensity no-show in an elimination game like Harden tonight. But yeah it really drives home that for better or worse, Westbrook would rip his intestines out if that's what it took in a must win game 6. 

36 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Can this be right? I saw a statistic on ESPN that home teams facing elimination have been 0-10 in the playoffs. Wow.

This does not seem to bode well for Friday. 

[sperry]

MVP is a total clusterfuck this year.

 

Harden had a horrible playoffs.

Russ put up huge numbers but team still lost in 5.

Kawhi's team wins by 40 in a closeout game without him.

The Cavs look invincible in the playoffs, which is even more reason to punish LeBron for their uninspiring regular season.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

I completely misjudged this series because I look at the Spurs roster and I just don't see the talent at all. But Pop is a goddamn genius. Give this roster to anyone but him and it wins like 40 games, right? 

Harden was a goddamn disaster in this one. Brought a Ben Stein level of intensity. Weird that he does battle with Kawhi over a 6 game series and it only seems to confirm to me that Westbrook is the MVP.

 Yeah, it really is an amazing system. Patty Mills has stepped into the Parker role and they aren't any worse for it. That Simmons guy (who I guess was a D leaguer prior to this season) has been really good both off the bench and starting. Even relics like Ginobli and Gasol hold down their roles. It's not spectacular, but it works. When Aldridge blew up in the 2nd half, it just got embarrassing.

\ And yeah, Harden straight up disappeared. He sat for a long stretch in the 2nd, and a ragtag collection of spurs ran the lead up to 18 or so, and they never looked back.

[briantw]

51 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Can this be right? I saw a statistic on ESPN that home teams facing elimination have been 0-10 in the playoffs. Wow.

Well, you've had four sweeps from the higher-seeded Cavs and Warriors, so that's four.  Utah beat the Clippers at home in game seven, so that's five.  Toronto, Boston, and San Antonio all won in game six of round one, so that's eight.  And then tonight makes nine I think.

[Jaime L]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

Well, you've had four sweeps from the higher-seeded Cavs and Warriors, so that's four.  Utah beat the Clippers at home in game seven, so that's five.  Toronto, Boston, and San Antonio all won in game six of round one, so that's eight.  And then tonight makes nine I think.

Wizards also won game 6 in Atlanta. That's 10. 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Jaime L said:

Wizards also won game 6 in Atlanta. That's 10. 

Ah, missed that one.  So yeah, ten.

Although I'm not sure if any of those teams (outside of the sweeps, obviously) were facing elimination in game four, which would throw off the stat.

[Calibandar]

8 hours ago, Triskan said:

Pretty flabergasted (sp) by this result.  I certainly gave SA a chance but would have thought that Houston sensed a huge chance to push it to seven against SA's depleted team.  To lose to a depleted SA team but get blown out at home like this is stunning.  I didn't see much of the game until the late 3rd when it was already blouses.  Did Houston just quit?

I am honestly not surprised. I saw some reactions here after that first game in the series where Rockets beat the Spurs in San Antonio saying the Spurs were done. I thought to myself, "not so fast guys". San Antonio is the better team of the two, in the regular season and in direct confrontation. They were my favorite to win the series, even after they lost game 1.

What is more shocking is how they blew out Houston last night without Leonard, I certainly didn't expect that.

I think they can compensate for the loss of Parker quite easily in the sense that Mills is just as good as him at this point in their respective careers. Parker is certainly two or three years past his best whereas Mills is still in his best years. Leonard of course is irreplaceable, but he will be back for game 1 against GS.

8 hours ago, Jaime L said:

I know postseason doesn't matter in the voting, but it's made clear Kawhi should't be the MVP, right? Spurs destroyed the Rockets in a road game 6 without him...and were 7-0 without him this season. He's a fantastic player but the system is bigger than even him.

 

The playoffs for me, have made the regular season MVP battle much more between LeBron and Westbrook instead of Harden and Westbrook. And I don't say that because of last night. But I think realistically, if we are giving the MVP to the best player in the NBA this season, that's either been LeBron, or Westbrook, with Harden and Leonard close behind, but not on the same level of Russ and LeBron.

I'd still give it to Westbrook but I've been given pause to reconsider LeBron's candidacy. Where he loses points in this race is that the Cavs have had a disappointing regular season given their squad. But he himself has been pretty excellent in the regular season.

[David Selig]

Such a weird game by Harden. It's one thing to have a bad game, but he wasn't even trying to either score or creating anything besides basic simple passes for 3 point shooters for most of the game. 2 shots and 4FTA in a half in which nobody else on his team was shooting well and he was barely ever doubled teamed is just inexcusable. And frankly, he should have fouled out earlier, he got away at least 2-3 times in the third quarter with obvious fouls.

He was far from the only culprit though, the whole team played hilariously bad defence for most of the game and Ryan Anderson continued with his inexplicable shooting slump at home. Gordon couldn't make a shot to save his life too. The whole team clearly underestimated the Kawhi-less Spurs and couldn't recover from the bad start.

[Relic]

Two lessons were reinforced last night. Never bet on Harden and never bet against the greatest NBA coach of all time,  Greg Pop. 

Game 6 wasn't a playoff game,  it was a straight up execution. 

[Maithanet]

I think the Rockets were physically and emotionally beaten in game 5.  They only played a 7 man rotation, and four of those guys played 40+ minutes.  It seems like they just knew they'd blown their best shot to take the series. 

I wonder what kind of odds you could have gotten after Leonard was declared out for Spurs -35.  It would have to be something totally ridiculous.  Blowing out the home team in an elimination game without your best player (Leonard) or #2 scorer (Parker).  Ridiculous.

But looking at the WCF, it is pretty scary for San Antonio.  If Leonard is only 80% (as I expect), then the Warriors are better at every position, and have a better bench.  Even avoiding the sweep will take some magic from Pop. 

[Proudfeet]

10 hours ago, Jaime L said:

I know postseason doesn't matter in the voting, but it's made clear Kawhi should't be the MVP, right? Spurs destroyed the Rockets in a road game 6 without him...and were 7-0 without him this season. He's a fantastic player but the system is bigger than even him.

If Aldridge plays well without Kawhi or if Kawhi plays, plays badly with him the remaining of the playoffs, you really have to wonder what the cost of playing through a ball dominant player in the team is if it diminishes the rest of the team. Or at least the Spurs' choice of a complementing star.

[DunderMifflin]

Rockets definately looked tired last night.
Aldridge could just back Anderson down and shoot an easy shot over him at any time. That forced the double on Aldridge at which point like 3 Spurs shooters become wide open.

[Fez]

10 hours ago, sperry said:

MVP is a total clusterfuck this year.

 

Harden had a horrible playoffs.

Russ put up huge numbers but team still lost in 5.

Kawhi's team wins by 40 in a closeout game without him.

The Cavs look invincible in the playoffs, which is even more reason to punish LeBron for their uninspiring regular season.

In some ways it speaks even better of LeBron; he knew the value and importance of being well-rested for the playoffs and helped the team buy-in to not pushing too hard in the regular season. Plus, he himself still had really strong numbers.

[David Selig]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

I think the Rockets were physically and emotionally beaten in game 5.  They only played a 7 man rotation, and four of those guys played 40+ minutes.  It seems like they just knew they'd blown their best shot to take the series. 

I wonder what kind of odds you could have gotten after Leonard was declared out for Spurs -35.  It would have to be something totally ridiculous.  Blowing out the home team in an elimination game without your best player (Leonard) or #2 scorer (Parker).  Ridiculous.

But looking at the WCF, it is pretty scary for San Antonio.  If Leonard is only 80% (as I expect), then the Warriors are better at every position, and have a better bench.  Even avoiding the sweep will take some magic from Pop. 

Ardridge and Mills played 40+ minutes in game 5 and were great in game 6 and the Spurs looked just as tired at the end of Game 5 than the Rockets. I don't think physical exhaustion was much of a factor, the Rockets were terrible right from the first minute of this one.

[Maithanet]

9 minutes ago, David Selig said:

Ardridge and Mills played 40+ minutes in game 5 and were great in game 6 and the Spurs looked just as tired at the end of Game 5 than the Rockets. I don't think physical exhaustion was much of a factor, the Rockets were terrible right from the first minute of this one.

Hence my saying the Rockets were both physically and emotionally beaten.  Being emotionally spent is a weird feeling in sports, but I've experienced it firsthand where my legs weren't tired, but somehow I couldn't get out of second gear.  In my case it was a different sport, but at the national championship tournament, so it's not like anybody lacked for motivation. 

People like to think that sort of thing doesn't happen to professional athletes, but they're human like they rest of us. 

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

What sport @Maithanet? 

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

What sport @Maithanet? 

Ultimate Frisbee National Championships 2007. 

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Ultimate Frisbee National Championships 2007. 

Awesome. 

[Maithanet]

2 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Awesome. 

I enjoy it a great deal.  And if I may boast a bit, the reason we got so emotionally spent was because we beat the #2 team in the country in our first game.  We got so emotionally high about that win that when we came down, we never really recovered, and just couldn't get going again all weekend. 

Glad we won that one game though, even if we didn't make the quarterfinals .